Koans You

[Taigu]

Re: Koans You

Shawn,

When you follow the shikantaza way, there is no need for introspection. Shikantaza penetrates and shines much further than the zafu. It is reality itself.
Your post is very clear, your understanding doesn't miss a single thing.
I-don't know is nothing but you-sitting-going-breathing.

Just stop trying to get somewhere and grasp anything...just on the spot, BE.


Take great care of yourself


Gassho


T.

[Jundo]

Re: Koans You

Hi,

I will echo much of what Bro. Taigu has said. Shikantaza is, in our way, the complete Koan whereby all (and us too) are resolved and made whole and brought back to life.

As well, there are endless Koans being presented to us each each moment, in each breath. This is the "Genjo Koan" ... meaning something like "the Koan Ever Actualizing Right Here".

But let me talk a moment about "Koan Koans" (I mean Koans of the "Sound of One Hand Clapping" "Does A Dog Have Buddha Nature" kind):

In my view, such Koans have come to be very much misunderstood and often misused.

Koans are not "illogical statements" or "riddles". In fact, most have a certain "logic" to them ... although a "Buddhist logic" firmly grounded in Buddhist perspectives and teachings where, for example, A is not B, yet A is precisely B ... all while there is no A nor B because All is just thoroughly A which is all time and space! Now, an overly or merely intellectual understanding of such perspectives is not sufficient, for one must actually see and be these perspectives, come to live them. Thus, I would compare Koans to poems and songs which express these wonderful perspectives in musical language so they can be felt in the bones, music that can be danced to. Many also have the aspect of an expression which carries and lets us "see" these multiple perspectives at once ... like this famous drawing ... or those 3-D images in the newspaper that some folks can see and some not ...



Is she an old lady .. a young lady ... lines and ink on paper ... the whole universe?

Like poems, like music ... these teachings should resonate with us and help us see in new ways (one Koany way of saying this is "see with the ears, hear with the eyes!" 8) )

Now, one thing about Koans ... as was pointed out ... is that the distance of time and culture, and the resulting gap in shared cultural references and language, is actually hurting more than helping now. As was pointed out ... often Zen phrases seem "cryptic" or mysterious and profound simply because many old Zen stories were written in 1000 year old "slang", citing forgotten Chinese legends, stories and poetic references, and poorly translated over time! It is as if I were to create a Koan now using such 'Americanism' terms as "bling-bling", "shake your booty", "Thomas the Tank Engine" (Britishism) and "Casey at the bat" and expect folks 1000 years from now in Lithuania to "get the reference". They might take "Bling Bling" to be a mysterious Mantra thought to have great magical powers.

Now, somewhere along the line, some radicals started to take the Koans and, forgetting the meaning behind them, asserted that if one merely takes a few words of the story ... and wraps oneself up in it ... even if one doesn't have a clue what the folks are "talking about" ... one can have a breakthrough to a Kensho experience or some insight. These days, students are assigned Koans to chew on so far removed from their original context that they might as well be future Lithuanians sitting Zazen while breathing in and out "Thomas the Tank Engine." I have no doubt that if the 31th Century Lithuanian does so for long enough, he will have some kind of breakthrough! :shock:

Now, as I have spoken of before ... in our Soto way too, we have all manner of encounters, deep and subtle, shallow and boundless. We do not overvalue or undervalue any of single instant but, rather, consider the whole hike ... the whole lifetime voyage with its changing scenery ... to be precious. There is no doubt (including the Great Doubt) that, in classical Soto Zen Practice (and all Zen Practice) a deep, profound insight piercing of the timeless, boundless, selfless (which is simultaneously this 'time bound, space bound, self bound' world) is vital. However, it is not a passing experience, no matter how profound (if you doubt me, just look at all the magnificent Kenshoing, Koan passing truly misguided and confused and rather unbalanced beings out there ... some of them perhaps "Zen teachers", as seen in some recent stories). Our Soto way is enlightenment in constantly polishing of the Jewel ... a constant polishing of the tile into Buddha ... all while the tile is already Buddha and the polishing never ends! This moving forward not knowing or sure what tomorrow holds ... yet truly Beyond Doubt ... is 'Great Doubt'!

As well, certain folks "systemized" koans into great collections which were to be "passed". While I appreciate that different Koans deal with different subjects (and sometimes sameness and difference subjects ... that's a joke), the over-emphasis on "passing" the Koan curricula is ridiculous. That is especially true as, with time, so many of the Koan have become separated from their original meanings.

Anyway, I digress.

I consider that I "teach in Koans" all the time, almost daily returning to the "classic" koans, but that I try to do so in modern language too (which may be closer to the experience of 10th century Zen Buddhists hearing these stories in their own 10th century language). So, for example, I wrote this when folks were a bit too focused (or some folks under focused) on Dharma names ... using a more familiar poetic reference to make a point ... a Koan on the futility of names and words by the greatest wordsmith of the English Language (Shakespeare ... not me :wink: ) who could turn mere names and words into living flowerings ...

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."
Romeo and Juliet (II, ii, 1-2)

A Kanji is but ink on paper or cloth, although the strokes give life to great power and beauty ... like a flower, a rose.

That, I believe, is a Koan. Can you feel it, can you grok** it?

Gassho, Cohen (not Koan)

PS - ** To "grok": Author Robert A. Heinlein coined the term in his 1961 Science Fiction classic Stranger in a Strange Land, where he wrote "Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed—to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science—and it means as little to us (because of our Earthly assumptions) as color means to a blind man."

PPS -

While washing the dishes one should only be washing the dishes, which means that while washing the dishes one should be completely aware of the fact that one is washing the dishes. At first glance this might seem a little silly: why put so much stress on a simple thing? But that's precisely the point. The fact that I am standing there and washing these bowls is a wondrous reality. I'm being completely myself, following my breath, conscious of my presence, and conscious of my thoughts and actions. There's no way I can be tossed around mindlessly like a bottle slapped here and there on the waves. (pp.3-4)

Gassho

Being mindful and aware of one's act in such way is a lovely practice. However, I do not know how useful it truly is in a life in which we cannot live such way much of the time. For that reason, I emphasize in teachings "non-doing" ... which is a twist on that flavor. Cleaning the yucky dirty dishes to get them clean ... all while, hand-in-hand, dropping all thought of "clean and dirty" and the undesirability of "dirty" (as two sides of a single coin). In other words, moving forward toward the goal ... all while free of any goal or need to obtain ... holding judgments, aversions and attractions though lightly, all while free of judgments, aversions and attractions.

Yes, another KOAN!

This is a much more useful practice in a world in which we must often be busy busy busy ... yet can be still and one with the flowing.

[Jinyu]

Re: Koans You

Hi everyone!
I'm sincerely happy I read this post today... Sometimes we tend to make too much about what we do/know/think and forget the basic joy of the this practice.
So easy to get lost in the myriads of books, blogs, conferences, retreats and other Dharma stuff of all Buddhist traditions we encounter or have encountered.
Sometimes nothing is nicer than tasting the sweet taste of simpleness. Getting back to practice with what is important for us in this practice and remembering the practical gate of luminous joy that Zazen is. Far from theoretical questions or mystical consideration...

All this to say that sometimes I tend to forget that Zazen is Shikantaza... sounds silly but lately I've been sick and I've been reading more than practicing, ...
And it is a real joy, for me to remember the jewel we have, it is about the joyful simpicity of the here and now... or as Taigu put it:

In our Soto tradition, all along we are invited to act and unfold from the space of shikantaza. From that space, everything becomes a gate. Activities of our daily life are the koans we practice and study

deep gassho,
Jinyu
ps: Sorry I couldn't had anything on the subject of Koans... they said everything! :lol:

[Risho]

Re: Koans You

Being mindful and aware of one's act in such way is a lovely practice. However, I do not know how useful it truly is in a life in which we cannot live such way much of the time. For that reason, I emphasize in teachings "non-doing" ... which is a bit of another flavor. Cleaning the yucky dirty dishes to get them clean ... all while, hand-in-hand, dropping all thought of "clean and dirty" and the undesirability of "dirty" (as two sides of a single coin). In other words, moving forward toward the goal ... all while free of any goal or need to obtain.

Yes, another KOAN!

This is a much more useful practice in a world in which we must often be busy busy busy ... yet can be still and one with the flowing.

I love this thread as well In any case, this is a really, really good point about mindfulness; it's something that really resonated with me when I first read what you wrote about mindfulness. Non-doing is the middle way. You can go nuts trying to be aware of everything you do, which is impossible and would end up just being frustrating. Sometimes being lost in thought is the way it is.. that's practice. Being pissed is practice. It's all practice. This type of mindfulness (it's almost a superficial mindfulness) just ends up separating you from what you are doing.. so it's the other side of the coin of not being aware. One side is not paying attention, the other is trying to pay attention. But non-doing, that is the point that transcends both.

Gassho,

Risho

[Rimon]

Re: Koans You

How about singing and washing the dishes? And maybe dedicating a song to the bowls?

Can I not be as mindful then? Sure I can!

Good question Janne. Actually that is my main self-assigned "life koan". When walking is "just walking", eating "just eating" and so on?
I like to read the newspaper while having breakfast, but that is clearly not "just eating"; I'm not paying all the attention I should to the food. On the other hand, I like to take a walk while humming to myself some tune; the rythm of the song tend to match my walking pace so I view as "just walking".
Singing and washing dishes? Depends completely on one' s experience I'd say. I know that if I did it, it would be to distract myself for the boring task of washing dishes. Don't tell Jundo :x but lots of times I wash the dishes with my stereo playing out loud so I don't have to pay attention to the washing.


Jundo said:

Being mindful and aware of one's act in such way is a lovely practice. However, I do not know how useful it truly is in a life in which we cannot live such way much of the time. For that reason, I emphasize in teachings "non-doing" ... which is a twist on that flavor. Cleaning the yucky dirty dishes to get them clean ... all while, hand-in-hand, dropping all thought of "clean and dirty" and the undesirability of "dirty" (as two sides of a single coin). In other words, moving forward toward the goal ... all while free of any goal or need to obtain ... holding judgments, aversions and attractions though lightly, all while free of judgments, aversions and attractions.

Yes, another KOAN!

This is a much more useful practice in a world in which we must often be busy busy busy ... yet can be still and one with the flowing.

Hhhhmmm.. That gives a whole new meaning to TNH concept of "washing the dishes in order to wash the dishes". I'll work hard in that non-assigned koan

Also, from a more "professional" point of view, your brief description on the Buddhist logic of Koans sounds like something this philosophy guy would like to explore. Can you reccomend some readings to dwel into the subject?

Gassho

Rimon

[Rimon]

Re: Koans You

I love this thread as well In any case, this is a really, really good point about mindfulness; it's something that really resonated with me when I first read what you wrote about mindfulness. Non-doing is the middle way. You can go nuts trying to be aware of everything you do, which is impossible and would end up just being frustrating. Sometimes being lost in thought is the way it is.. that's practice. Being pissed is practice. It's all practice. This type of mindfulness (it's almost a superficial mindfulness) just ends up separating you from what you are doing.. so it's the other side of the coin of not being aware. One side is not paying attention, the other is trying to pay attention. But non-doing, that is the point that transcends both.

coulnd't agree more with that.

Who said that there weren't any interesting discussions in this place? :twisted:

[Jundo]

Re: Koans You

Also, from a more "professional" point of view, your brief description on the Buddhist logic of Koans sounds like something this philosophy guy would like to explore. Can you reccomend some readings to dwel into the subject?

Ola Rimon,

Well, since you are an actual philosophy professor at a university, here are some items that might be of interest to the specialist ... maybe not the general reader ...

A very good book is this one ... a fascinating series of scholars papers on the origins, history and various uses of Koans ...

http://www.amazon.com/Koan-Texts-Contex ... 252&sr=1-1

Reviewed in the second half of this review ...

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenBookReview ... Nelson.pdf

You might also find this paper interesting ...

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings/ ... rmance.htm

this too ...

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/His ... sebook.pdf

That should keep you busy for awhile ...

Gassho, J

[Jinho]

Re: Koans You

Also, from a more "professional" point of view, your brief description on the Buddhist logic of Koans sounds like something this philosophy guy would like to explore. Can you reccomend some readings to dwel into the subject?

Rowan Jinho recommends Cleary's translation of the Book of Serenity (a collection of 100 medieval Chinese koans).

On a more general note:

Do not think ABOUT a koan, just live with the question. If a koan grabs you, then live with that question, just let it sit in your being and an answer will come. maybe in a few years maybe next week. but the important thing is (as Sensei Ejo McMullin of the Eugene Zen Center said to me) "where is there not koan?" There are an infinite number of koans in our lives at every moment.

A koan that lives with me (or lives me) for me is "what is enlightenment?" I am sure this is a koan that lives in many zennies, whether Soto or Rinzai.

Someone (I believe Maezumi) wrote that before enlightenment, life is chopping wood and carrying water, and after enlightenment life is chopping wood and carrying water, but do not be mistaken, the chopping wood and carrying water before enlightenment is not the same as the chopping wood and carrying water after enlightenment. I can certainly say that is very true even after my very tiny kensho experiences.

But the important this is to just live with the question, because the "answer" that comes from one's subconscious (after it has mulled it around for a few years) will be far more meaningful than the intellectual one that one comes up with. But perhaps it is good to analyse something to death to sort of get the analysing out of one's system. FYI, very few people do "sound of one hand". Almost everyone begins with Mu as a first koan when doing formal koan study. And there is only one answer to all koans, which is that great understanding that we call enlightenment.

I would like to assert, while mindfulness is a good thing, it is not enlightenment.

Also, I think of shikantaza as koan study whose koan is "This Moment" - but without the words, of course (I hope Jundo and Taigu understand what I am trying to express). to become one with This Moment, to completely experience This Moment as the entire universe. Perhaps it is my innate orientation but I experience shikantaza as a vast limitless koan.

Another lovely quote from Sensei Ejo - I asked him "what is shikantaza" and he replied that for him it is the roaring stream which flows through everything.

gassho,
Rowan Jinho

[Rimon]

Re: Koans You

That should keep you busy for awhile ...

Gassho, J

Indeeeed. Thank you so much Jundo. Looking forward to read some of these by the end of the week

Gassho

Rimon

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Koans You

When I read a koan, which I will sometimes read a bunch at a time, like reading a book, I will simply read it. I might think on it for a moment, simply to make sure I understand in what way something is being said, like all those koans where one monk asks another to "say something" they are asking for a piece of wisdom from the teachings that would enlighten the situation.

For the most part, I simply read them and either look at them and say, "I don't get this one yet." or "ahhhhh, I see......" I think that koans are intensly personal and the answer will change with the reader.

[Taigu]

Re: Koans You

A word of caution JohnstonCM, don't think that koan...let koan think you. Don't live life , let life live you. Same old thing. By the way, love what you wrote about pointless sitting.
Our way is just sitting, sitting the big koan itself, the source of it all. Thank you Jinho for that limitless koan.

gassho

Taigu

[Jinyu]

Re: Koans You

A word of caution JohnstonCM, don't think that koan...let koan think you

I was reading Keizan's Zazen-Yojinki today and I've seen something with "the same taste":

Arising from stillness, carry out activities without hesitation. This moment is the koan. When practice and realization are without complexity then the koan is this present moment. That which is before any trace arises, the scenery on the other side of time’s destruction, the activity of all Buddhas and Awakened Ancestors, is just this one thing.

what a beautiful program... lets do this :lol:

gassho,
Jinyu
edit: The Zazen-Yojinki has been a wonderful discovery for me, somewhat different froom Dogen style, a bit more esoteric with a great emphasis on "light" but anyway it strucked me has the Fukanzazengi did the first time.
Here is a pdf with some of the articles we can find in ""The Art of Just Sitting: Essential Writings on the Zen Practice of Shikantaza": https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...thkey=CJ3Qrq0L
And here is the text in html format can be found on WWZC website at this address: http://www.wwzc.org/translations/zazenYojinki.htm

[TrevorMcmanis]

Re: Koans You

What about Shobogenzon shinji? I know we dont use koans but is has been speculated dogen did. I wonder were this fell out of his favor or the soto tradition...

[Jundo]

Re: Koans You

What about Shobogenzon shinji? I know we dont use koans but is has been speculated dogen did. I wonder were this fell out of his favor or the soto tradition...

Hi Trevor,

It never fell out of favor in the Soto tradition, even now. Shinji Shobogenzo was a collection of Koans that Dogen collected and wrote down himself and brought back from China. (My teacher, Nishijima, translated the Shinji Shobogenzo):



Then Dogen used most of those same Koans again and again throughout Shobogenzo (not to be confused with "Shinji Shobogenzo") and (the other main collection of Dogen words) Eihei Koroku. Wall to wall, chock full of Koans!

The only question is HOW he used the Koans, his particular style of playing that jazz piano. For example, it is pretty clear that he did not want people to be focusing on a Koan or phrase from a Koan during Zazen (or anything or nothing during Zazen) ... and one was not to employ the Koans in the way of Tahui during Zazen ...

... but more as Taigu so often does around here ... with Koku, with this today. Here is a nice Sufi Koan ...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3454&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Gassho, J

[Dokan]

Re: Koans You

edit: The Zazen-Yojinki has been a wonderful discovery for me, somewhat different froom Dogen style, a bit more esoteric with a great emphasis on "light" but anyway it strucked me has the Fukanzazengi did the first time.
Here is a pdf with some of the articles we can find in ""The Art of Just Sitting: Essential Writings on the Zen Practice of Shikantaza":

I was happy to see this Jinyu as it's next on my reading list!

Gassho,

s