Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

[ghop]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

It has occaisionally struck me that I may have a practice that has more in common with Yoga than Zen.

Moonlight is moonlight, whether it be relfected in the river or in your eye.

It is good to have you here. Stay awhile. There really is NO DIFFERENCE between yoga or zen or sewing or baking a cake.

Mary Oliver said, "Where does the temple begin, where does it end?"

When everything is sacred, to what do we bow?

When nothing is ordinary, what do we not bow before?

Bassho has a haiku that relates to this subject...

"Many nights on the road
and not dead yet-
the end of autumn."

In the first step homeward, the journey is complete.

Yet everyday we have something to work with.

gassho
Greg

[Taylor]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

It has occaisionally struck me that I may have a practice that has more in common with Yoga than Zen.

I do both. Yoga for exercise and Zen for nothing. My recovering addict Uncle gave me "Meditations from the Mat" bu Rolf Gates and the parallels are beautiful. It's a book on Zen without ever touching the word (Yet... It's a day by day thing, 365 essays for each day of the year. Highly recommended).

But anyways. I feel I know the feeling you have, and please, correct me if I'm mistaken. The feeling of sitting on the cushion and waiting for IT! That big moment! The "Oooooommmmmmmm" to resonate through your very being as it does in the yoga studio when everyone chants. The kensho, the flash, the lotus, the burning fire of ENLIGHTENMENT!

Some traditions seem to promise the glitz and glitter more than others. For me, when I found and still find myself looking around, spiritual shopping really, musing about the "Oh what if...." it helps to step back as say "Oh what is...."

Test the waters here for awhile, see if you like the temperature.

But again, only my thoughts. Steer me back if I have unfairly assumed, I mean no harm

Gassho,
Taylor (Myoken)

[Jundo]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Thanks for responding all.

Perhaps what I am most interested in (at this point) is just plain cultivating a kind of mental discipline. Without the strength to have single point awareness and control of my mind, I often spin into almost manic highs and lows. My emotions are so strong and intense, without a kind of rigid control and discipline over my thoughts, I simply ride a rollercoaster of fantastic highs, and then terrible lows.

I suppose that, in our little corner of the meditation world, we do not seek to "restrain" or suppress or "tie up" our wild thoughts and emotions. Rather, we relax and let them go, drift away, settle of their own accord (like stirred up and bubbling water which we allow to settle, and become clear, of its own accord ... just by letting it be still and rest). We don't get tangled in the thoughts and emotions, or stir them up ... and allow all things just as all be. Opening the hand of thought, letting them flow.

Perhaps the best image is wild horses and bulls that we wish to ride (or the wild ox, as Taigu spoke about recently).

viewforum.php?f=25

These wild animals stand for our wild, runaway thoughts and emotions. We may try to tie them down for a time, herd them into a fenced corral, try to beat them into submission (although, more likely, doing so creates new wounds and emotions and a desire to run away). It may actually be necessary to tie them down with force sometimes.

But, ultimately, we should not keep them locked in, fenced in and bound. We cannot stay that way, behind walls and fences. Rather, the goal is just to relax ... both rider and ride to relax ... quiet and settle into each other, come to befriend each other and unite. Then, in place of untamed horses or bulls running wild, bucking and throwing off their rider, dragging her by the ankles through the dirt ... both are flowing in harmony, ride and rider as one.++ (Oh, some days the wild beast still runs wild even for the best cowboys among us ... but most times we just can ride right through any countryside, any weather, slow idle or fast gallop).

Something like that.

So, in Zazen, we allow our thoughts to come and go, then settle ... and not throw us off (the Zafu or the saddle), tangling us in their ropes, dragging us through the dirt and hard stones.

Something like that. (I really ran wild with the cowboy analogies today! :roll: )



flowing like mountain, solid as water, space. :wink:

Gassho, J


++ (I am not talking about actual wild horses and bulls here, by the way ... which may have their own lives running free ... just as a symbol for wild thoughts and emotions. I do not want trouble from the animal rights folks! :cry: )

[The Sparrow]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Ah, if only I COULD let the thoughts arise then bubble away.

Instead, the thoughts are so negative and depressing, that as each one passes through me, it flays away part of my soul.

I'm not seeking 'enlightenment', just a little peace.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Not seeking enlightenment is sort of a prerequisite for Shikantaza, so that's good.

There really shouldn't be a goal to Shikantaza, but I think you will notice that with a little bit of practice you'll get a certain distance to your thoughts, so that you are no longer controlled by them and no longer get carried away by them, at least not as often. When you can watch those negative thoughts rise and just see them for what they are without judging them, then they will float away. Push them away and they return.

If you feel a storm of negative thoughts and emotions inside, there's nothing wrong with focusing your concentration on something particular like you have done so far. Have you tried focusing on and counting your breaths? It's useful to count to ten and return to one every time you get lost in thoughts, get to ten, or continue past ten. And have you payed attention to what is between the inbreath and outbreath, between outbreath and inbreath?

After your mind has calmed down a bit, you can practice the 'real' Shikantaza.

Good luck!

/Pontus

EDIT: Replaced 'try' with 'practice'!

[Taigu]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Hi Pontus,

After your mind has calmed down a bit, you can try the 'real' Shikantaza

Trying is certainly NOT shikantaza.

My mind is ALWAYS a mess.

Being fully aware of the mess, limitations, delusions is OFTEN my experience of shikantaza.

Space between inbreath and outbreath...Don't make it too long

The first part of your post is great. Thank you.

Let's be down to earth and knees on the ground.

gassho


Old grumpy scruffy Bear Taigu

[The Sparrow]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Actually, the more I poke around and do research, the more I'm beginning to realize that my practice has (with out deliberate intent) much more come to resemble at least 2 'arms' of the Yoga Sutra 'system', specifically bolded items below.



Yoga S?tras
...The Yoga S?tras codifies the royal or best (r?ja) yoga practices, presenting these as a eight-limbed system (asht?nga). The philosophic tradition is related to the S?mkhya school. The focus is on the mind; the second sutra defines Yoga - it is the cessation of all mental fluctuations, all wandering thoughts cease and the mind is focused on a single thought (ek?grat?). The eight limbs or the Asht?nga Yoga propounded here are

Yama, ethics, restraint and ahims?,
Niyama, cleanliness, ascetism, etc.
Asana, posture
Pr?n?yama, breath-control
Pratyah?ra, sense-withdrawal
Dh?ra??, concentration
Dhy?na meditation, and
...

(source - Wiki)

I think I'm going to withdrawl for a bit and do some exploration in this area.

Thanks all for your open welcomes and responses.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Trying is certainly NOT shikantaza.

You're absolutely right! How silly of me! :lol: Thanks for the correction. I'll edit right away!

Old grumpy scruffy Bear Taigu

You're a great fool of a big stupid bear! :mrgreen:

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Being fully aware of the mess, limitations, delusions is OFTEN my experience of shikantaza.

By the way, doesn't being fully aware of your delusions mean complete enlightenment..? :wink:
Sorry, old bear, couldn't resist! ops:

/Pontus

[Taigu]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Enlightenment about being a complete a........ :? :cry: :roll: :wink:

And thank you for the kind poke.

gassho

Taigu bear GETTING older

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Enlightenment about being a complete a........ :? :cry: :roll: :wink:

Yes, those moments of great insight, you've got to love them! :wink:

Thank you for being who you are, Cuddly Bear.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Rich]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Thanks for responding all.

Perhaps what I am most interested in (at this point) is just plain cultivating a kind of mental discipline. Without the strength to have single point awareness and control of my mind, I often spin into almost manic highs and lows. My emotions are so strong and intense, without a kind of rigid control and discipline over my thoughts, I simply ride a rollercoaster of fantastic highs, and then terrible lows.

I don't think its a matter of control. Its simply attaining the freedom to get off the roller coaster. This way is called the middle way.

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

It's carrying this instruction from my zafu to my life that gives me problems. "Mother, should I build a wall?" sang Pink Floyd. How do I find space in a traffic jam? How do I act like a mountain when all I can think about is escaping myself through alcohol? How do I flow like water when the hours ahead hold inescapeable suffering?

In a traffic jam I might notice how beautiul the sky looks today. In the midst of wanting that one drink that will be one too many and nowhere near enough I might remember the beautiful eyes of my daughter, and how she says, "But I love you." When tomorrow holds pain that I can't get out of I might remember my father singing in the shower as his hair falls out into the drain from cancer treatments.

Space in a traffic jam is still there, just less obvious. Escaping yourself through alcohol only results in finding yourself again with a vengance the next morning (take it from someone who walked that path). Flowing like water is flowing like a lazy river on good days, and flowing like rapids on bad days, all still flowing.

Pain is. Life is. Sometimes life is painful, sometimes pain reminds you you are alive. Don't let the bad days do the acting for you. Even if tomorrow holds unescapable suffering, live right now as best you can. If the painfull times come, they come, if you fight it it hurts worse, but if you ride the currents of the river, remaining mindful, you can ride the river as you become the river. When you become the river or the mountain, who is it who suffers?

[ghop]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Flowing like water is flowing like a lazy river on good days, and flowing like rapids on bad days, all still flowing.

Thank you for this. I will carry it with me for a long time. :wink:

I talk alot (when do I find time to sit!?) about relating my practice to my life.

What I don't always mention is that the more I sit, the more I stop struggling, the more I become that open space, the more my life becomes a pleasure instead of an enemy. You know you're making progress (even though there's nowhere to go) when even the bad days offer you handfuls of treasure. Now I wouldn't change a single thing about my life. I will work to remove the suffering of others. But I will not struggle against the current of my own karma anymore. So maybe instead of being that water I can work on being the streambed too, and just let the current wash over me.

gassho
Greg

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Pinpoint precision attention = no thoughts

Perhaps you would be interested in 'Mizu no Kokoro', mind like water.

Here's one essay I found to be quite enjoyable:
http://www.trans4mind.com/counterpoint/ ... per3.shtml

Mizu no Kokoro - A Mind Like Water
By Vincent Paul Cooper

Water. The vital element that is the difference between life and death. At one moment life-giving and nurturing, only to change in the blink of an eye to a chaotic, destructive force of nature.
In the East, and in Japan in particular, perhaps because it is an island, water has been used symbolically in philosophy for centuries. The pond, representative of nature's lakes, is a common and important feature of many Japanese gardens. Alternatively, the carefully raked sand of austere gardens found in some Zen temples also betray the influence of water, with the sand symbolizing the ocean. References to water in one form or another can be found throughout Japanese literature and philosophy, but one phrase in particular that stands out is Mizu no Kokoro, or 'a mind like water'.

The phrase Mizu no Kokoro is sometimes translated as 'a mind like still water' but I find this to be inaccurate and unable to convey a fuller meaning. It should also be noted that the word kokoro in Japanese properly speaking means heart / mind with the implication that our emotional life (of the heart) and our rational life (of the mind) are intertwined and not separated as we tend to distinguish between them in the West.

With that background filled in, let's take a look at what Mizu no Kokoro means and how meditating upon it can be of value to your life and development.

Calm Water
The first thing that Mizu no Kokoro teaches us is that when water is calm there are no ripples. There is no disturbance. The surface of a lake appears perfectly still. On one level of understanding, this is how we should aim to make our mind: perfectly still, calm, collected and relaxed. This is the mind of insight; the mind that has given up its internal dialogue and has nothing more to say but rather acts as an observer, its awareness extending beyond the phenomenal world. It is neutral and is unable to distinguish between 'right' and 'wrong' or 'good' and 'evil'.

In more practical terms, this particular state of Mizu no Kokoro is able to show calmness in the face of adversity. It is the mind unruffled by events and the stresses of life. Summoning an image of a still, pristine lake in your mind when you are confronted by the hassle that life brings you is a great way to train yourself to remain calm.

Ripples
When the surface of a lake is disturbed, ripples are created. Concentric rings spread out from the source of the disturbance. The water is no longer still and no longer calm. But the reaction of the water is measured. The water will never react in any way that is more or less necessary and proportional to the force of the causative agent. Water never over-reacts. Similarly, but with no less importance, it never under-reacts either. The reaction we witness is in perfect harmony with the initial disturbing action, neither more or less than is appropriate.

Here too we need to learn an important lesson from Mizu no Kokoro. Your reaction should be measured; an equal match to the situation. Too often people over-react. We see this all the time and it is obvious when we witness it. A person's reaction is completely over the top and is more often than not not directly connected to the event that sparks it off. Rather, the preceding event is the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. Maybe that person has been having a bad day, barely keeping themselves in check and when something apparently minor happens an over-reaction is the result. The damage done in such moments can be life-altering. A harsh word to a child, spouse or friend that forever changes their perception of you. A physical attack that at the very least can leave the victim mentally scarred. An argument with your boss or a customer that leads to you losing your job.

Less obvious, but perhaps even more common, is the tendency to under-react. Here we touch on the distinction between Western and Japanese (broad) definitions of the functions of the heart and mind. In the West we are conditioned to keep our emotions in check except in very particular environments. Rationality rules. As described above, the term kokoro doesn't adequately separate mind and heart. Neither our emotions nor our rationality are dominant. The suggestion is that an under-reaction is no less damaging to your self than an over-reaction. Therapists are forever kept busy with patients who have successfully buried their emotions deep inside themselves for a variety of (rational or self-rationalized) reasons. The result is a damaged psyche.

Mizu no Kokoro teaches us that your reaction should be appropriate, neither an over- or an under-reaction. Your reaction must arise from inside you. It should be natural to you. How one person reacts to a spilt coffee will be different to the next person. Only you know what your true reaction is. This requires self-awareness and an ability to harmonize with yourself.

When your reaction is complete and has exhausted itself, return to the calm mind you would otherwise normally keep, just as the surface of the lake becomes pristine once again.

When Calmness Returns
Water then can quickly change from a state of stillness to movement and back to stillness.

It is vital to recognize that 'a mind like water' is reactive NOT passive.

Maintaining your 'cool' while your carefully constructed life is collapsing around you is not what this teaching is about, though unfortunately that is sometimes the message taken from it when the phrase mizu no kokoro is translated as 'a mind like still water'. This is not about passively accepting whatever fate throws at you. But neither is it about dominating your environment. Rather, it is – simple in theory, very difficult in practice – to react appropriately, from your inner self, to events in your life.

We can see this clearly when we watch masters of different martial arts. Their actions are almost childlike in appearance (as compared to the theatrics of a Hollywood movie). Simple, direct, and always just enough to get the job done with no wasted energy. At this level their minds hardly appear to have been disturbed at the conscious level; rather their technique is born from the unconscious mind.

When disturbed, water reacts as much as it needs to…but never more than that. Soon after the water returns to its original condition of calmness. This is the lesson to learn and apply to your life.

Formless
One of the characteristics that water, like any liquid, has is the ability to adapt to a changing environment. A measure of water placed in different containers will immediately alter its shape to fit its new surroundings.

The life lesson here from Mizu no Kokoro is obvious: adapt to circumstances. Don't get trapped in old ways of thinking, however traditional they are and however well they may have served you in the past (or not, as the case may be when we witness others fail to understand that doing the same thing repeatedly will not produce different results). Anyone reading this on the internet no longer lives in a world of slow-paced change. At the age of 36, in my lifetime I have witnessed an immense technological revolution and there is no reason to think this will not continue into the future. People can expect to not only change jobs but entire careers several times throughout their life, with each step requiring new and additional training. An inability to be able to learn and apply new skills can be limiting to say the least. Worse, a refusal to face facts and acknowledge this new environment can spell disaster for yourself and your children.

Adapt to what life gives you. Harmonize with it, don't fight it. Realistically appraise what is going on and make the changes necessary to allow you to continue living your life in a comfortable manner. Does this mean you should be a victim to circumstances? No, not at all. Water is reactive, not passive. Adapt to your true nature and find your own path to walk, your own song to dance to, your own game to play.