How not to feel sorry for yourself?

[Risho]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

Ditto to what everyone else said. :mrgreen:

In terms of trying to be nice, I consider myself an A-hole (sorry for the language).

I don't know you other than your posts here, but who gives a crap about being nice? I've had enough nice growing up, and where does it get you? When I think of nice I think of that placating or sycophantic behavior that usually worsens a situation and never engenders a damned authentic interaction with another human being. It's sort of like Marcia Cross' character on Desperate Housewives.. that fake external image.

In any case, i've never thought of you as being nice. I have thought of you as someone who is incredibly self-aware for their age and someone who is an intrinsic and inspiring part of this sangha. If you were nice, I doubt you would respond as passionately as you do to issues around here. So please, do not try to be nice.

I recently re-read something that Pema Chodron said, and I wrote it down in my journal because it echoes my own feelings of self denegration, and I think it applies here.

"The problem is that the desire to change is fundamentally a form of aggression toward yourself. The other problem is that our hangups, unfortunately or fortunately, contain our wealth."

As Jundo said, my 20's were really tough as well. I used to smoke a lot and I didn't know my place in the world. It was just tough, but things do tend to work themselves out.

Gassho,

Risho

[Stephanie]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

Wow, I appreciate the awesome and diverse feedback, everyone. A lot to chew on.

Risho, I like what you said about being "nice." I feel the same way. When I say "nice" in reference to an aspiration for myself, I don't mean "meek" or "impeccably polite," or whatever. I mean not going around harboring these ugly thoughts I find in my head a lot of the time. It's not so much that I want other people to think I'm "nice"--I learned long ago that people's opinions of each other usually only reflect their biases. People talk trash about good people and praise bad people. It's really just that I don't like what's going on in my own headspace. I'm aware of the hypocrisy in how I judge people, when I'm going around being just as petty, if only inwardly, a lot of the time. But mostly, it's just stupid, because I'm making myself miserable, and don't have to.

Jundo, I appreciate the encouragement, and your helpful practice reminders. I always remember what you say about the "mind theatre." Realizing that it's a theatre helps set me straight a lot of the time.

A lot of well-meaning people, when I try to explain my frustrations, offer me advice on how to meet people, etc. That's not what I have a problem with! I don't have social anxiety (thankfully), I know how to go into a room and connect and converse with people. The problem I keep running into isn't a lack of meeting people, but a lack of those meetings translating into continued, quality social contact. And I don't expect everyone I meet to be my BFF. But it sucks when the people you think are your "BFFs" don't come through as friends, and then the more casual friends you have disappear from your life almost as quickly as they came into it.

Hans, I like your description of having weak wrists and being best at cuddling cats. Ha! I've definitely had to confront and let go of many delusions of grandeur I've had. I realized when I moved out of New York back to Southwest Virginia that I'm really not that special, I'm just another working person looking for the same things as most everyone else. I can accept that I'm not going to have this glamorous, "special" life, what's tough is wondering if those "simple things" are even going to come my way.

Fugen, I appreciate your perspective and have enjoyed those posts of yours before, thanks for reminding me of them.

Thanks, everyone, for the encouragement and perspective. I have to keep reminding myself of the truth of impermanence and change. The shape of my life now is different from what it will be later.

But I really do have this as a practice question--which is why I posted this in this forum--how do we let go of these delicious, addictive stories we tell ourselves? On an intellectual level, I know that half or more of what I'm thinking isn't true, and these thoughts are discouraging, and yet there is a strange addictive quality to them. I really want to stop going around feeling sorry for myself, but I keep falling back into it!

[Janne H]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

But I really do have this as a practice question--which is why I posted this in this forum--how do we let go of these delicious, addictive stories we tell ourselves? On an intellectual level, I know that half or more of what I'm thinking isn't true, and these thoughts are discouraging, and yet there is a strange addictive quality to them. I really want to stop going around feeling sorry for myself, but I keep falling back into it!

You can´t get rid of these thoughts entirely (not that that´s what you´re saying), but through the practice of sitting you should be able to give them some space, some distance, and not having you´re self getting tangled up in them. And I guess you already know this.

Janne

[nealc]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

hi stephanie

words i try to remember and typically forget for my frequent wallowings in the lousy ponds of self-pity:

There are thousands upon thousands of students
who have practised meditation and obtained its fruits.
Do not doubt its possibilities because of the simplicity of the method.
If you can not find the truth right where you are,
where else do you expect to find it?

Dogen

for me, knowing that and not doing it is always the same as not knowing it -- and just doing it always makes it better.

thanks for your many helpful posts.

_|_
-neal

[Keishin]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

"At this very moment, what more need we seek?"

This tiny phrase comes from Hakuin's Song of Zazen--one of the chants regularly used by One Drop LA, (later named Tanden Zendo), a rinzai group affiliated with Shodo Harada Roshi (Sogen-ji in Japan is the head temple).

It is this petit but potent snippet of that chant which saves me from myself many times over.

There are other snatches of other sutras and chants which come to me at other times to help with other puposes; but this particular phrase takes whatever ails me at the moment and dispells it.

It isn't just words for me. I am connected to it because for the years I sat with this group this was part of one of the chants, and each time I chanted these words they did something to my being. Still do.

I don't chant regularly anymore, the group I sit with now only chants The Great Heart of Wisdom Sutra once a month when we do a one day sesshin. But the little phrase is with me, Thank You, Hakuin!

Maybe you also have a salve for the places that hurt, Stephanie. For me it is 'at this very moment, what more need we seek?'

[Heisoku]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

Remember, you are not the only one this has happened to!

[Jundo]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

"At this very moment, what more need we seek?"

This tiny phrase comes from Hakuin's Song of Zazen'

Like a child wandering poor on this earth ...

Ah, also one of my favorite chants, which we entone each year during our Annual 2-Day online Rohatsu Retreat (I dedicate it to Doshin Cantor, a priest with the White Plum, who I consider one of my teachers).

http://sweepingzen.com/2009/12/23/mitch ... antor-bio/

Powerful, and very much appropriate to the topic ...

Song of Zazen
by Zen Master Hakuin Ekaku

From the very beginning all beings are buddha;
like water and ice, without water no ice; outside us no buddhas.
How near the truth yet how far we seek;
like one in water crying "I thirst,"
like a child of rich birth wand'ring poor on this earth,
we endlessly circle the Six Worlds.
The cause of our sorrow is ego delusion;
from dark path to dark path we've wandered in darkness;
how can we be free from birth and death?

The Gateway to freedom is zazen samadhi;
beyond exaltation, beyond all our praises; the pure Mahayana.
Upholding the precepts, repentance and giving;
the thousand good deeds, and the way of right living,
all come from zazen.
Thus one true samadhi extinguishes evils;
it purifies karma, dissolving obstructions.
Then where are the dark paths to lead us astray?
The pure lotus land is not far away.

Hearing this truth, heart humble and grateful;
to praise and embrace it, to practice its wisdom,
brings unending blessings; brings mountains of merit.
And when we turn inward, and prove our true nature:
that true self is noself, our own self is noself,
we go beyond ego and past clever words.
Then the gate to the oneness of cause and effect is thrown open;
not two and not three, straight ahead runs the Way.
Our form being noform, in going and coming we never leave home;
our thought being nothought, our dancing and songs are the voice of the dharma!

How vast is the heaven of boundless samadhi;
how bright and transparent, the moonlight of wisdom!
What is there outside us; what is there we lack?
Nirvana is openly shown to our eyes!
This earth where we stand is the pure lotus land;
and this very body, the body of buddha!

[Rich]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

But I really do have this as a practice question--which is why I posted this in this forum--how do we let go of these delicious, addictive stories we tell ourselves? On an intellectual level, I know that half or more of what I'm thinking isn't true, and these thoughts are discouraging, and yet there is a strange addictive quality to them. I really want to stop going around feeling sorry for myself, but I keep falling back into it!

I don't think that creating models of reality filled with anxiety and fear are absolutely bad. They have a purpose even if it's just to fill emptiness. But there comes a point when asking What is this? is helpful as a first step in letting go. Of cause we don't really know and settling into this don't know, just breathing, just perceiving is about the best we can do.

Stephanie, you are not alone. I've said lately that this is the 'winter of my discontent' and I'm taking it one little step at a time.

Does the ego entity exist or not? No, the ego entity does not exist.

[JohnsonCM]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

But I really do have this as a practice question--which is why I posted this in this forum--how do we let go of these delicious, addictive stories we tell ourselves? On an intellectual level, I know that half or more of what I'm thinking isn't true, and these thoughts are discouraging, and yet there is a strange addictive quality to them. I really want to stop going around feeling sorry for myself, but I keep falling back into it!

First let me tell you how I stop feeling sorry for myself, when the feeling arises. I stop by feeling sorry for myself. I let it play itself out, like a wound up child, but I try not to give it any more attention than is required to ensure it doesn't do something it shouldn't , or break something, or become the motive for further thought.

Yeah, there definitely is an addictive quality to these thoughts. Let me ask you this, does that addictive feeling feel more persuasive now that you have been practicing for a while? I ask because I think, for me anyway, that it feels like that because my ego self is finally getting some attention. It doesn't know what to do with itself, so it acts like a dog that's so happy to see it's master that it pees on the carpet :mrgreen:. I think that the way to avoid that is to realize that they feel so addictive because the "self" that you know is just a construct is getting a pat on the head, and it wants more, so it makes the sensation addictive in order to try and put you in a position to feed that addiction. The old "deep breath, take a moment to see what is really happening, and reaffirm what you know to be true" helps me out in these situations. I look and say, "well, I'm wallowing in self-pity and that isn't going to solve anything, it's not going to change the world, today's events, my situation, in fact, it won't even stir my coffee. I'm doing it because there is 30 some odd years of psychological "muscle memory" that wants to stroke the ego and make me feel better, or vindicated, or to reaffirm my self worth in a situation that would otherwise bring me down. That's all it is, smoke and mirrors, clouds and fog. No substance. Now, time to formulate a plan on how to deal with / overcome the situation I now find myself in."

Sometimes, all that even works. A bit. ops:

[Nenka]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

Christopher, I think you have it exactly right. The brain really does resist new/different ways of thinking about the world. Old thought patterns do have an addictive quality.

And Stephanie, I've been trying to think of something helpful to say--much of what you're going through, I've been through in my 20s (except I couldn't even get the jobs below my level :roll: ). Go through what you have to go through. Much metta to you in these difficult times.

Gassho,

Jennifer

[Keishin]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

Jundo,

I chose not to quote the entire chant above. The version familiar to me is slightly different in translation than the one you provided, here it is for comparison sake:

Hakuin Zenji's Song of Zazen

All sentient beings are essentially Buddhas.
As with water and ice, there is no ice without water;
apart from sentient beings, there are no Buddhas.
Not knowing how close the truth is, we seek it far away--
what a pity!
We are like one who in the midst of water cries out desperately in thirst.
We are like the son of a rich man who wandered away among the poor.
The reason we transmigrate through the Six Realms is because we are lost
in the darkness of ignorance.
Going further and further astray in the darkness,
how can we ever be free from birth-and-death?
As for the Mahayana practice of zazen, there are no words to praise it fully.
The Six Paramitas, such as giving, maintaining the precepts,
and various other good deeds like invoking the Buddha's name,
repentance, and spiritual training, all finally return to the practice of zazen.
Even those who have sat zazen only once will see all karma erased.
Nowhere will they find evil paths and the Pure Land will not be far away.
If we listen even once with open heart to this truth,
then praise it and gladly embrace it,
how much more so then, if on reflecting within ourselves we directly realize Self-nature,
giving proof to the truth that Self-nature is no nature.
We will have gone far beyond idle speculation.
The gate of the oneness of cause and effect is thereby opened,
and not-two, not-three, straight ahead runs the Way.
Realizing the form of no-form as form, whether going or returning we cannot be any place else.
Realizing the thought of no-thought as thought,
whether singing or dancing, we are the voice of the Dharma.
How vast and wide the unobstructed sky of samadhi!
How bright and clear the perfect moonlight of the Fourfold Wisdom!
At this moment what more need we seek?
As the eternal tranquility of Truth reveals itself to us,
this very place is the Land of Lotuses and this very body is the body of the Buddhas.





As y'all can see, my memory inaccurately recalled the phrase as being "At this very moment what more need we seek?" When actually in the chant it is, in this version "At this moment, what more need we seek?"

Hellos to everyone posting here, seeking and not!

Somewhere back in the archives I started a thread in which different translations of the Four Great Vows and such were offered for comparison. You too, gentle readers, may find it of interest.

[Keishin]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

Stephanie:

I hope you can see what a rich field of practice you have--one we all can and do share! There is so much to respond to, I try to keep my reply succinct, but I keep finding one more thing, one more thing that wants to be said, for example in your response to Risho this just popped right out to me:

"it's just stupid, I'm making myself miserable and don't have to"


I would beg to differ. There is it's own wisdom in the behavior. To me, this is key.
I would examine this one backwards forwards up and down and inside out.
Such a koan!


Valentine's Day is coming soon....I'll tell you of a koan which naturally arose for me years ago when sitting with Jifu Gower: "When I say the words 'I love you,' who is the "I" and who is the "you"?

Maybe we should start a new thread "Koans naturally arising in daily life"?

[AlanLa]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

Stephanie, some of this sounds very familiar to me. I am 52 years old with no romantic relationship. I haven’t had one in a long time and I have no prospects for one now, nor do I expect one anymore. All of my 20’s and 30’s, along with a good chunk of my 40’s, were spent watching (what seemed like) all the people around me get matched up, married, and moved on. I kept figuring my turn would come, but it never did. All I ever got was the heartache. Along that same timeframe I went from a lot of friends to a few to now maybe one. All of this drove me to despair. At some sneaky and undefined point my life became empty and barren, nothing at all what I ever expected, certainly not what I felt I deserved. Why should I have such an empty life when I was even more deserving of happiness than people not as good as me? Why should people who had not struggled the way I had for personal and relationship success get it but not me? But these questions are ultimately useless and unanswerable, to say nothing of selfish.

The real issue is this: how do you cope with such despair? A simple and dualistic answer is you can either escape life or engage it. Escape comes in external forms such as drugs and alcohol or internal forms such as negativity and judgmentalism – and I have done some of these things as well as others, all to no avail. Engaging the problem comes in the form of taking responsibility, examining your life, and taking active steps to change, all of which can be found in this practice. Ever since taking up this practice in my mid-40’s I have been moving away from escape towards engagement. It is my journey from samsara toward nirvana.

You are on a long road to a destination that is probably far away, but it sounds like you want to be there right NOW. It ain’t gonna happen. Focusing on the destination outcome keeps you stuck in suffering, but by focusing on the journey process you can begin to free yourself from that suffering. The more you ask “Am I there yet?” the more you and everyone else around you suffer and the bumpier the ride feels. But when you start saying “Hey, check out the scenery” the road begins to get smoother and the suffering begins to lessen. Note I did not say the suffering goes away, because that’s just crazy talk.

Progress on the journey will happen, but keep in mind it will likely be incremental progress. The going for me has been slow, and many times I have taken some steps backward before waking up to it and taking forward steps again. I cannot tell you how many times I have had to relearn that engagement works better than escape. There have been times I felt I would never learn that, but when I take the big perspective of where I was then to where I am now I can see that I am learning. Here are some things I have found to be helpful on my journey:
• Metta for myself, especially, but also making a point to include lots of others
• Sympathetic joy – learning to take pleasure in others good fortune
• Acceptance (of my life as it is) without acceptance (so that I can make a choice to change things or not)
• Taking responsibility instead of blaming anything external; even in the case of some random external event, I need to examine what role I played in it because me and the event are not two
• I am perfectly Alan right now, because what else could I be right now?
• Despite my “perfection” I can, and will, do better because the process of life allows me this opportunity
• Practice, practice, practice all of the above via zazen, living the precepts, Treeleaf activities, etc.

Finally, let’s deconstruct this idea that you deserve something, anything. Basically, feeling you deserve something is an ego game that is rigged against your life. Thinking about it in terms of gambling, your ego is playing a game that your life can never really win. At best, it’s what gamblers call a push. If your ego thinks you deserve something and you get it, then you’re even; it’s a push. If you are smart, you will walk away from the table right then. But if you start to congratulate yourself (ego) on getting what you (ego) felt you (ego) deserved then you (ego) start to think you (ego) deserve even more, so you (ego) play even more, until, ultimately, your life begins to suffer, because the game is rigged so that the house always wins in the end. Thus the more you play the “deserving” game, the more suffering you set yourself up for.

To think you deserve something is just an idea, a thought, and what does our practice tell us about our thoughts? To think you deserve something is just another form of delusion. Every time I start talking like that to myself I try to catch it and let it go. What happens happens, and that’s both the beginning and end of it.

Bon voyage, Stephanie, may your journey get smoother. I bet it wll.

[AlanLa]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

On a lighter note, Stephanie, you can always use the technique demonstrated here by Bob Newhart as a way to stop feeling sorry for yourself.
https://<div class="videocontainer w... </a> </div>

[Heisoku]

Re: How not to feel sorry for yourself?

Al you are an inspiration.
Deep Gassho with great respect.