Socially Engaged Buddhism

[Ankai]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

My mom has a saying, "Charity starts at home."



Steph, as a Buddhist, don't you see that as dualism? "There's 'at home' and there's 'everyone else.' Yes... use your talents and abilities and posessions where you're at... but where you're at is the World, too. My own thinking, regarding charity, is, "put it where it'll do the most good. Trust your practice to show where "the most good" might be. To say, "Where I am, here and now," may be the pragmatic answer... but it may not be the ONLY answer... One must trust that the Dharma touches other consciences differently, don't you think?

[Stephanie]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Sure, but there is still something to be said for action that is effective. Not all grandiose social change efforts are ineffective, but a great many are.

Doing a public meditation sitting for peace in Darfur is an example to me of ineffective action. We may be horrified by the brutality of war, but have we studied the causes of conflict, and are we using our intelligence to address those causes? Is our action connected to the result we seek? I see a lot of (perhaps) well-intentioned social change efforts that are at the same time completely misinformed and naive. Like those one-day boycotts that were so popular a few years ago.

[Earthling]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I'm mostly just lurking on this discussion, but this hit a nerve for me:

It's not my goal to dissuade you from making efforts toward the greater good... I just detect some of the same elements in your writing/thinking that I've experienced in the past. I'm not sure what exactly motivates the kind of epic quality behind the "do-gooding" some of us folks can get into but I think that often, true compassion is the smallest part. I think it's a response to the frustrating nature of the world, an attempt at control. A desire to believe in something BIG, something to impart meaning. I think there's a sort of hunger behind it...

This. I've experienced this sort of thing myself, just a couple years ago. To donate time and money to Amnesty International is one thing-- but no, I had to ADD onto this and thought I had to get the t-shirt, the bumper sticker, other things to advertise the mere existence of Amnesty International and the need for human rights. Sure, it wasn't about "Look what *I* am doing," however, what I did feel was a desire for control-- "The world shouldn't be like this!" I couldn't "just simply" donate time or money. But this was all my own doing.

Personally I tend to feel a bit uneasy seeing public figures or institutions (religious or otherwise) making a big deal about how THEY are connected to some charity, because then it isn't really about compassion-- it is just about advertising and the charity is a means to an end to that purpose.

I think this passage from the Bible is worth mentioning here, even if from a different religious tradition:

"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (from Matthew, chapter 6)

Individuals will come to the Buddhadharma when they are ready.

() josh

[Onshin]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Er just a little thought here,
you talk of having collecting bowls and selling merchandise to raise funds, in UK you have to be a registered charity to do that, is it not similar in US? Remember, Jundo and Taigu never accept money, they ask us to donate to establised charities.

Just a thought.

Gassho

Joe

[Saijun]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Hello friends,

Now that we have established the currently mentioned ideas are ineffective and perhaps on the egotistical side, perhaps some fresh ideas could be contributed?

Metta,

Perry

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Well as to the egotistical aspect, the last thing I'm going to say is this:

I think that there is just as much delusion behind the idea that doing something on a large scale is done to simply feed the ego. I think, personally, and I could be wrong, that there is just as much of a "desire" to not appear egotistical or grandiose. As to public sitting:

Very true. I don't think any of us want this to become a "commercial" venture, but I think we would be ok as long as we stay true to the teachings, use any monies for the relief of real suffering in the world, and let our compassion guide us. Like I said too, signs and sitting are free........

Good morning,

I recall, a good long while back, a gentleman sitting for four hours on a Friday night in the 'party district' of our town with a placard reading "One Buddhist for World Peace." It really stuck with me. Maybe we could organize an event like this, with each of us sitting in a park or somesuch, as a preliminary exercise?

Metta,

Perry

I think that veering away from public expressions of doing good, because you may believe that because it is public and not private, and therefore must have more to do with riding the high-horse of righteousness than actually doing some active good, is a very sticky and nefarious delusion. Because there is an attachment to the idea of doing good anonymously, and that this form of charity or doing good is more pure and selfless than doing good and being seen, no action is taken. We sit, discuss, dissemble and eventually, because of the delusion of purity of motivation, because of the delusion that public action is ego-stroking or an attempt to control, we end right were we started. Nothing is done, some few of us do what we can in our own area, and the impact is restricted to those whom that few can touch, in the wider world, where we make no distinction between here and there, between family and unknown, between public and private good, suffering continues.

There is a quote from the Boondock Saints (good movie by the by, though a bit violent and in no way suitable for children, plus the message is good but the methods are waaayyyyy off):

A priest is standing at the podium and is giving his sermon, and just before the main characters leave he says:

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is one type of evil which we must fear most. The indifference of good men."

I would replace "indifference" here with "inaction".

[AlanLa]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

STOP talking, Chris!
Just go DO something!!
DO it with ALL of your heart and NONE of your ego.
Find some people, here or elsewhere, and have them DO it with you in that ego-less way.
Whatever happens is karma.
Whatever you say or don't say matters little compared to your actions,
And at this point it seems all worthless talk here.
Such is my worthless view.

[Jundo]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

JUST TO REPEAT THE BELOW ...

(also ... please keep the conversation civil. it is very common for people to start fighting about how to bring peace to the world. :? )

Just to let everyone know, Taigu and I are not ignoring this thread ... just watching as ideas and suggestions percolate and settle, some very workable some perhaps not ...

As soon as the ideas cook a bit more, we'll suggest a plan ... reviving some old proposals including some new touches ...

Gassho, Jundo

[ghop]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

(also ... please keep the conversation civil. it is very common for people to start fighting about how to bring peace to the world. )

where's disastermouse when you need him hee hee :mrgreen:

gassho
Greg

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I could probably use me some Chet about now.

Any way you cut it, I'm gonna sit now.

I don't mean to be offensive, so sorry if I came off as such. I'm going to fall silent for a bit on this and see what the fall out is......

[ghop]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I don't mean to be offensive, so sorry if I came off as such.

Not at all, man. I just meant, how are we supposed to bring peace to
the world when we can't even bring it to this forum? Chett is just an
example. I don't mean it in poor taste. Nor do I mean to dig up bones.
I just mean, so long as peace is just a concept, is it really peace? I've
had alot of religious nutts and organizations force their concept of peace
on my life...all of them failed. I failed too. Peace is what's left when
resistance is dropped. "You will be peaceful if you will accept my definition
of peace for your life..." this is what most of us do to others. Be it
Christianity, Buddhism, Humanism, whatever. Even the Buddha sat out
innitially in search for his own self. He left his family, man. What he
found benefited all of us. But at first it was all about him. What the hell
is peace anyway? A webiste? A creed? Nope. Just doing what needs to
be done to ease another person's suffering, moment by moment.

gassho
Greg

[ghop]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

So, in response to your question...

[quote="JohnsonCM"]What kind of things would you suggest to make Buddhism more visible in the West?"

I would say, make it disappear. Along with every other religion. Let's stop
pushing drugs and just start helping.

gassho
Greg

[Taigu]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Greg,

I find your tone and voice rather offensive and provocative. Do you need to get unpleasant? If you hate religions or religious practice, why are you hanging aroud here? Can you learn to make a positive contribution without digging the old bones?

What the hell
is peace anyway? A webiste? A creed? Nope. Just doing what needs to
be done to ease another person's suffering, moment by moment.

Thank you also for these words. Very true. And yet not totally true.

gassho


Taigu

[Taylor]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

A Gassho on entrance,

I must agree, doing what need be done is always good. But, I can't discount religion as a positive force now and then. Before Buddhism I was completely unconcerned with charity, more concerned with ME ME ME ME ME. Selfish, angry, spiteful. Not to say I don't have those moments, in fact they pop up at least a few times a day. But, the flames are no longer flamed as they used to.

Religion isn't a necessity for life, I know of many who are more giving than anyone and exist without a foundation of religion. So really, couldn't it be said more so that taking a look ourselves, whether prompted by the mirror of religion or the mirror of life or the mirror of life as religion or the mirror of religion as life, is vital?

I'm cautious to fall to either side, necessity or uselessness. So I end with "to each their own, by my own is through this".

Gassho on exit,
Taylor

[ghop]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

by Taigu on Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:43 pm
Greg,

I find your tone and voice rather offensive and provocative. Do you need to get unpleasant? If you hate religions or religious practice, why are you hanging aroud here? Can you learn to make a positive contribution?

I am here to learn. I am here to speak. I am here to be corrected.
I didn't mean to be offensive. But how many fingers pointing at the
moon have done any good? Buddha is dead. War is raging. Can you
really say that you are any closer to the truth than you were when you
began practicing buddhism? If you were you would be out in the street
and not on the internet. I don't mean to sound offensive. I want a
breakthrough. I am so tired of being let down. I want help. I want
to help. I want Treeleaf to be the last place I look. I want too much
maybe. But every group seems concerned with just "their group."
"How can we make the world Christian?" "How can we make Americans
Buddhist?" Bullcrap. Right now, there is snow on the ground. Single
digit temperatures are on the way. There are homeless people sleeping
on the sidewalk tonight. Meanwhile, I sit in warmth in front of a computer
talking ABOUT religion. What's wrong here? Buddha is just a raft. Don't be
afraid to let the air out of it. That's all I'm trying to do. I just want to get
to the other side.

gassho
Gretg