Socially Engaged Buddhism

[Dosho]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Hi all,

Forgive me if I missed this, but why is it important to have merchandise that says Treeleaf on it to accomplish the goals you've discussed?

Gassho,
Dosho

[Saijun]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Hi all,

Forgive me if I missed this, but why is it important to have merchandise that says Treeleaf on it to accomplish the goals you've discussed?

Gassho,
Dosho

Hello Dosho,

It's just an idea for how to make this project of our self-sufficient; as I mentioned above: I am more than willing to give what I can to defray any costs, but I'm sure that it won't be enough. I, for one, would like to see a support system for whatever we decide to do, so that it doesn't have to close down due to a slump in donations.

That having been said, I'm not really comfortable with the idea of merchandise myself. Any other (practical) option would be, I'm sure, better.

Metta,

Perry

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Much of my whole stand point on this was to make Treeleaf, and therefore the Teachings of our Way more accessible and available for people in the West. I figured the web address somewhere would assist in that.

[Jundo]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Just to let everyone know, Taigu and I are not ignoring this thread ... just watching as ideas and suggestions percolate and settle, some very workable some perhaps not ...

As soon as the ideas cook a bit more, we'll suggest a plan ... reviving some old proposals including some new touches ...

Gassho, Jundo

[Dosho]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Much of my whole stand point on this was to make Treeleaf, and therefore the Teachings of our Way more accessible and available for people in the West. I figured the web address somewhere would assist in that.

Chris,

I do think spreading the word about Treeleaf is a good idea, but I just don't see myself handing out beanies or flyers telling people about what we do here in the sangha. If I'm volunteering or donating to a cause I might strike up a conversation or correspondence with some folks who may or may not ask why I chose to become involved. In that circumstance I can see bringing it up, but I'm more inclined towards what Keishin and Rich mentioned and doing so anonymously or with a low profile. I'm not out to convert anyone and any discussion I engage in would be with one person at a time. I also can't think of a way to create some kind of fund that would be free of any hint of mismanagement. It's not that I don't think folks here could do it...I'm sure they could, but I wouldn't want anyone to be put in a situation where they would have to defend certain choices or actions. It just doesn't seem like what we're about here, but I am but one voice here that carries no special weight. And whether or not we come up with something along the lines you've suggested, I'll practice the dharma as I always have...one day at a time...one moment at a time.

Gassho,
Dosho

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Dosho,

I understand what you are saying, but there seems to be, still, some misunderstanding about my intentions. I think that making Treeleaf and the Teachings more accessible, more available, and more visible in the West is an extremely important thing. I am not, however, advocating the conversion of the masses. I am not suggesting that we become the Buddhist Jesuit order, nor am I suggesting that we stand on street corners hawking Treeleaf merchandise. What I am saying is that, for many in the West, Buddhism is still thought of as some sort of eccentric Eastern philosophy / religion / thing, and the misconceptions around it might be enough that people would not really bother with looking into it further. If we were doing something that really helped people, and sort of passively but visibly represented Treeleaf while doing it, my point is that you will more than likely have the opportunity to explain why you choose to involve yourself in helping others, and the door will be open for a conversation, not a conversion, on the dharma.

Again, I ask my fellow sangha mates not to get ahead of themselves and see demons in every shadow. I simply think that we have the ability to do real and lasting good if we work together on something, it needs to be self sufficient as much as possible, it needs to really and truly help, and it should represent the Teachings and the Way, such that an open conversation is much more likely but not forced.

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I would also like to reiterate





It need not have a prohibitive cost. Publicly sitting and raising awareness is relatively inexpensive.

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

In fact, if I am most honest, I think that a peaceful public sitting would be a good beginning. I would like to again propose that what we do is start a new thread or a new section on Treeleaf or even a new section in the Tea Party (though I don’t know how that works yet, unfortunately I have not checked it out yet, and I am a little slow on the technological side of this, I just got a web camera but I think I need a separate microphone because I can’t hear myself) or whatever. We then have a discussion on what issue we would most like to support, keeping in mind that it should be something that we can all be on board with, something that we can find good resources on, good charities or other support groups that make a difference in the cause we choose, perhaps offer a friendly ear to listen to others that are affected in some way (say we choose to support curing cancer, we could have a special forum or something where we can talk with or just listen and offer support to folks who have lost someone to the illness). We can make a flier with information – ie, This is what cancer is, this is how it affects people world wide, this is how many people die from it or loose a loved one to it, these are the groups and charities that do (in our opinion) the most effective work at easing the suffering caused by cancer, this is how you (the public) can help, contribute, volunteer, make a difference, etc. On the back of the flier, at the bottom, we could simply have a statement that says “Distributed by Treeleaf.org, an online Zen Buddhist sangha” or “Supported by……”, which just might provide someone with enough interest to log on and take a look. Yes they could pick up a book, but we all know the benefit of being able to speak with our teachers and have a guide on the Path, so that we don’t fall into the delusion of believing we have an understanding when we don’t.

This seems to satisfy all our concerns. We would be active in something as a sangha, together. We could do it in our areas. It is not cost prohibitive. We aren’t running around trying to preach the Gospel According to St. Buddha and convert the masses. We are providing a way for others to find a good, reputable, helpful resource on the Teachings and the Way, with actual teachers to speak to and not just a book on a subject. We aren’t watering down the importance of the religion with chatchkies and free toasters, nor are we beating anyone over the head with our sutra books. And, best of all, it raises awareness in a multitude of areas, over a large geographical footprint, on an issue or issues that cause suffering in this world, and can generate some real and lasting interest in people to help ease that suffering. If people saw us sitting in public, with information for those who want it, I think it might make people say, “Hey, this is something that these folks care enough about to be out here doing this, maybe I can take a look at some of these charities or organizations, and see what I can do to help.”

Yes this information is probably already out there on the internet, but honestly, the sheer amount of information out there makes it just as difficult as if there were no information out there. Only people already interested in contributing to a cause and helping others are actively looking for this sort of thing. Only people who already have an interest in some aspect of Buddhism and understanding the dharma are actively looking for it. It’s the rest of the people who are spending the vast majority of their time online doing other things, that I would like to put something in front of that would facilitate (not force) them in saying, “Hmmm. Maybe I’ll check this out next time I’m online.”

Well, that's my thought process here. I'll get off my soap box now, and I'm going to take a seat and see what comes out in the mix.

[Dosho]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Hi Chris,

I believe I do understand what it is you are proposing. What I find hard to understand is why you feel that you need to involve Treeleaf to do the things you mentioned. Just do them. I'm not saying Treeleaf could not be involved in some way, but you are heavy on ideas and low on experience. You seem to be implying that these are things we NEED to be doing or SHOULD be doing, but aren't. For one thing, how in the world do you know that folks aren't doing things like this already? Truth is you don't, but seem to imply otherwise. I think you would be much more effective in your words and could eventually take an important leadership role here if you have actually gone out and done some of the things you propose. You can make up fliers that direct people towards general resources on buddhism and zen, even including Treeleaf as one resource among many.

There are many ways to spread the dharma and the ideas you have discussed are merely a few of the limitless paths to doing so. We'll see what Jundo and Taigu have in mind and perhaps they are ready to involve Treeleaf more directly in the world along the lines you have suggested. However, until then I'd strongly suggest that you go out and get some experience with these matters before trying to lead others to follow. Then, you'll know much more about the realities of things like public sittings and be a leader who can inspire others.

Just my $0.02.

Gassho,
Dosho

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Hi Chris,

I believe I do understand what it is you are proposing. What I find hard to understand is why you feel that you need to involve Treeleaf to do the things you mentioned. Just do them. I'm not saying Treeleaf could not be involved in some way, but you are heavy on ideas and low on experience. You seem to be implying that these are things we NEED to be doing or SHOULD be doing, but aren't. For one thing, how in the world do you know that folks aren't doing things like this already? Truth is you don't, but seem to imply otherwise. I think you would be much more effective in your words and could eventually take an important leadership role here if you have actually gone out and done some of the things you propose. You can make up fliers that direct people towards general resources on buddhism and zen, even including Treeleaf as one resource among many.

There are many ways to spread the dharma and the ideas you have discussed are merely a few of the limitless paths to doing so. We'll see what Jundo and Taigu have in mind and perhaps they are ready to involve Treeleaf more directly in the world along the lines you have suggested. However, until then I'd strongly suggest that you go out and get some experience with these matters before trying to lead others to follow. Then, you'll know much more about the realities of things like public sittings and be a leader who can inspire others.

Just my $0.02.

Gassho,
Dosho

Dosho,

I hear what you are saying, and would have to agree that my experience here is limited. These are ONLY ideas, and to be honest, I don’t think I’d really be considered ready for a leadership role in Treeleaf by any one’s standards, especially my own! But then, I don’t want to do this to be in a leadership role. I don’t want people to read this thread and think that my take on it is that “You guys need to put your money where your mouth is.” I don’t know that other’s aren’t out there doing what they can, that’s true, but I also thought that this could be something we could do together as a sangha. Strength in numbers, as it were, and something that we could all do as a community of Zen practitioners. As for why Treeleaf should be involved, well, it certainly doesn’t have to be the ONLY resource on Zen, Buddhism, and the Teachings, but this is the sangha I attend most often, with teachers whose methods and teishos speak to me the loudest, so I thought that it would be an obvious choice to include. Personally, I wouldn’t care if someone saw Treeleaf.org on a flier and went there, only to go on to Rinzai, or Sanbo Kyodan, or Korean Son, or Sufism, or Sikhism, or being a more involved Christian, Catholic, Protestant, or whatever. I believe and have faith that the Teachings of the Buddhas present a path to enlightenment, one that speaks to me from teeth to toenails, but then again, it is not the only path either. I do not propose that it be taken as such.

This is what I was referring to when I spoke of misunderstandings. I didn’t start this thread to be considered for a leadership position in this sangha. You are absolutely correct when you say my experience here is lacking, I agree wholeheartedly, and I don’t know that I want anyone following my poor example.

But then, that’s not what this was about either. This is about one very simple thing, helping others directly and substantially. “Sentient beings cannot live on merit alone.” That’s why I made the suggestion that we all come together and see what happens. Of course, I defer to the wisdom of our teachers, and to sangha members who’ve obviously been around the block for a while such as yourself and Keishin, Rich, Stephanie, our esteemed Rev.s Fugen, Hans, and Shohei, but my thought process here, in the end is kind of simple.

One person pulls a rope attached to a heavy weight, and what happens is much what you’d expect from a single person trying to move a heavy weight. When ten, twenty, or thirty people pick up the same rope, or many ropes tied to the same weight……well you get the idea.

As for your two cents, they are always appreciated and respected.

[Dosho]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Chris,

Thank you for your responses as they have helped me see where you are coming from in this endeavor. Gassho.

And just to be clear I wasn't talking about some formal leadership role since, last I knew, neither Jundo or Taigu had given me such powers! I was talking more about the inititives taken up recently by Stephanie and Kelly, but also the informal ways that all of us can stand up and inspire others to follow our example. You seem very passionate about this and I see no reason why you should wait for whatever comes up here for a service project...just go out today and start doing it! I did feel a bit like you were urging people to put their money (or time) where there mouth was...so I'll urge you to do the same. Get out there!

Deep bows to you and your pratice...you seem to have the passion thing down pat.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Stephanie]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Tsem Tulku has a talk, "Don't embarrass the Buddha!!"

I would offer, in the same vein, "Don't embarrass the sangha!!"

I think the public sitting and handing out info on Treeleaf is the very definition of proselytizing... blergh. Not something I really want to be associated with.

Chris, I think you're a bit intoxicated by idealistic thinking right now. You're looking to be part of something BIG and MAJOR and WORLD-CHANGING.

Helping others is simple. If you really wanted to just help others for the sake of helping others, there are plenty of things you could have already, quietly done by now, without making a public scene or drawing attention to yourself.

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Tsem Tulku has a talk, "Don't embarrass the Buddha!!"

I would offer, in the same vein, "Don't embarrass the sangha!!"

I think the public sitting and handing out info on Treeleaf is the very definition of proselytizing... blergh. Not something I really want to be associated with.

Chris, I think you're a bit intoxicated by idealistic thinking right now. You're looking to be part of something BIG and MAJOR and WORLD-CHANGING.

Helping others is simple. If you really wanted to just help others for the sake of helping others, there are plenty of things you could have already, quietly done by now, without making a public scene or drawing attention to yourself.

There's that word again....... I'm begining to think that some of you would be dangerous with a Scrabble board.

It could be as you say, but I feel that my motivation in this is more along the lines of wanting to see something that has an affect. I do already do things, usually in such a way that no one knows it was me, but like I said, doing something alone or rather on my own, has a small impact. I might truly help a few people, but there are just so many more out there, I simply feel that I just don't have enough hands......but, as I said, there is the possibility that what you say is correct. I will have to sit with that idea for a while, turn it over and see if my motivation is what I thought it was, and perhaps Jundo and Taigu or the other Rev's might help shed a different perspective.

[Stephanie]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

It's not my goal to dissuade you from making efforts toward the greater good... I just detect some of the same elements in your writing/thinking that I've experienced in the past. I'm not sure what exactly motivates the kind of epic quality behind the "do-gooding" some of us folks can get into but I think that often, true compassion is the smallest part. I think it's a response to the frustrating nature of the world, an attempt at control. A desire to believe in something BIG, something to impart meaning. I think there's a sort of hunger behind it...

I admit I'm somewhat skeptical of the engaged Buddhist "movement." I admire the good works of many Buddhists and agree that real action is more important than sublime thoughts. But there's a holier-than-thou vibe, and a quixotic aspect, that makes a lot of this "Buddhist activism" seem not very grounded in reality or in general.

The public sitting demonstrations are the most perplexing to me. Does anyone really believe that the sight of someone meditating in public is really going to provoke some sort of revolution in other people? The funniest one I read about was the Interdependence Project in New York organizing public sittings at subway stations. The typical New Yorker commentary on the blog it was posted to was hilarious. No one seemed moved to anything other than laughter and incredulity. Because, really, all the people were doing was making it more difficult for people getting off the train to get to where they were going...

My mom has a saying, "Charity starts at home." I'll be ready to donate or give something to some anonymous organization or third party and my Mom will say, "Your sister could use that!" It's a good point... I find the biggest positive impact comes from getting involved on the local level. A big part of my recent move is wanting to live in a smaller community where I can really get involved with and feel like part of that community.

This is why I think that Treeleaf community service efforts should involve the Internet on some level... because the Internet is our community. It's where we're most immediately situated as an organization... and therefore the easiest context/environment in which we can reach out.

[Ankai]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Public sitting may or may not have much effect. But reaching out into individual lives- especially those most in need of help- is living Mahayana.