Socially Engaged Buddhism

[Heisoku]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Mmm.... I completely understand your feelings on this Chris ...and I'm going to be tentative here but ..you can't tell people their Buddha nature you can only show that it's ok to live it!! ..and if they want to know what keeps you going then there's your intro to pointing them in the right direction.
I don't know Chris ..we are discussing a fine line and I just feel like a spoiler at the moment!
Part of me wants to say that if you feel like it shout it out and you know what the other part thinks!!! :?

Here's Peter Matthiessen's take from an interview with Kay Bonetti;
"I'm a little more skeptical about social action and what can be done. You don't have to be much of a reader to recognize the human tendency throughout civilization's long, long history to blood and gore, rapine, greed, and the worst kind of misery. You can make a little betterment here, a little solace there, but it's not very much. Nonetheless you have to do it. You have to do it. I passionately think that. We all must make an effort for the betterment of mankind, even though we know it won't do any good."

Many gassho's Nigel

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Let me say before you all read the rest of this that this is my opinion, likely flawed and missing something, and it is my sincere hope that you take what I say with here for what it's worth, whatever that might be.....

There is a fine line here. And to Nigel's point, I can't tell anyone what their Buddha nature is, I can "only show them that it's ok to live it." But first, I have to SHOW them. Maybe I'm imagining it, but many of the posts I've read seem to carry a sense of, "Be careful Christopher, you sound like you want to help people so you can feel good about helping people, it's just another attachment, just another way to feed your ego."

Well, the feeling I am getting from all this is N.I.M.B.Y. If you've ever watched George Carlin, you know what I'm talking about. It means "Not In My Back Yard". He says it happens even when people believe in something, like prisons. People are always saying we need more prisons, the yell at the government, "BUILD MORE PRISONS!!!!"...........but not here.

We all agree that the Buddha awoke under the bodhi tree and said that we all possess Buddha Nature, but it is our attachments and our delusions that keep us from testifying to that fact. We all also agree that the Four Noble Truths say that there is suffering in this life, that this suffering is caused by delusion and attachments, that there is a way to end this suffering, and that way can be found in the 8 Fold Noble Path. One part of which is Right Action. We can all agree that there is suffering out there, and that it can only be alleviated when we can see clearly, when we are compassionate, and when we WORK with Kannon's hands to make things better. True, we will likely never make samsara into Nirvana, but that's not the point. True, people may think differently of us if they see us helping others selflessly and make judgments about that, but that's not the point. We say how much we believe in peace, in compassionate helping, and simply giving where it is needed. We talk about engaged Buddhism, and taking what we learn on the zafu into the world.

Then when a suggestion arises on doing it, actually doing it (Stephanie's project is a good example) the response is, "Whoa there!" Not to call anyone out or point any fingers but here are a few examples:

It is not the Buddha Way to advertise to drum up support, so being socially proactive may show that we are here if needed??!

I have read about making a kind of statement by meditating in public places with a sign that says something simple like, "peace," or perhaps a pamphlet for your cause. Maybe an open invitation to sit with you...

We can represent the sangha and our teachings socially by just answering questions when we are asked, living the teachings, and perhaps taking up our own cause whenever we see fit.

But it is also important to try to help others at our "own level", with our own possibilities... To stay down to earth and try to give or help people in a way that is useful!

The desire to do something big can be motivated by great compassion. It can also be an outlet for ego: "Look at all the good I'm doing!"

In many ways, it is not the active and undertaking of large-scale social engagement; but the willingness to give what is needed, when it is needed, in the amount or means that is needed.

In some ways this seeking of worthy endeavors to engage oneself in as a buddhist is carrying around an idea of responding to needs.
The need to be needed. The need to be seen as a good buddhist being good, doing good as a buddhist.

It falls by the wayside. Be it Buddhist philosophy or not, there is suffering out there and we can, and should, all do something to help alleviate it. I'm not saying there is no benefit in individually contributing. I do it. I give $2.00 a paycheck (the max they will let me give automatically) to clothing children in my area, among other opportunities to donate money, or time to local charities and events. Let me tell you, that $2.00 every two weeks on top of the other things I do, hurts a little. I have a wife, three kids, a mortgage and one job in rural West Virginia, times are tight! But I can not sit there and think of those children shivering in the cold and not do something. Now do you suppose it would make a hill of beans in terms of making a difference if it was just me donating that money with the hope that someone will see me and say, "Hey, I'd like to help too."? NO. But because this goes to an organization with lots of people doing the same thing TOGETHER, hundreds of children in my area were warm this winter, and even got some Christmas presents with the money left over.

It is not a question of waiving the dharma flag and saying, "Hey, you! Yeah you, the non-Buddhist over there! Come here and read this suttra and live these Precepts, and maybe you can be a good person like me!"

It is simple. People need us. We know that we are not separate from them, and if we have the means to help, let's help. We know that suffering is horrible, and who among us would not want to ease that suffering? Even if, or rather especially if, the person you helped never even knew who helped them or where the help came from? Even if it hurt a little? What I am saying is that, we are a sangha, we can do things together and make a real difference. But, we can also let people know that we do what we do, because we have been fortunate enough to learn the dharma of the Buddha's, which has helped clear away some of the delusions and attachments we have, enough to clearly see that we could make a difference in peoples lives. I don't propose to make the horse drink, but I can't very well expect him to drink, no matter how thirsty he might be, if I don't show him where the water is.

I just don't want to see us fall prey to N.I.M.Z.P.(Not In My Zen Practice).

If I upset anyone I apologize, especially to those I quoted, I removed the names but I know that is little better than nothing.

Many, many, penitent bows.

[Saijun]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Christopher,

Apparently my suggestion that one needs to be careful about one's motivation was taken as saying "Not In My Zen Practice."

As one of the people quoted in the "WOAH THERE!" examples, I ask you why your idea of doing good is acceptable, while another's is not. Speaking for myself, I only advocate looking at the motivation, and doing what one can, where one can. If that means donating to a cause, then donate to a cause. If that means mending a jacket, mend the jacket. In the above post, it seems to me that you are the one saying "[come here and do this big project], and maybe you can be a good person like me." We all have different abilities and inclinations, but I'm certain that all of us do what we can to alleviate the suffering of those around us. It seems very unfair to judge those of us who have a different perspective as incorrect, especially since we're advocating for the same thing you are.

Good is good. Some good is more visible than others. Donating your time, energy, and cash to a cause you believe in is good, and highly visible. Getting a bag of rice for someone who isn't strong enough to carry it is also good, I think, though less visible. Does the visibility affect the worth of the project? Is it better to donate a bunch of money to a "Homeless Day Center" (we have those around here), or to buy lunch or a blanket for someone who is obviously hungry and cold?

Gassho,

Perry

[Heisoku]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

Chris

There is no insult in discussing things that mean so much to us.
I should also like to apologise in case any comments or points of view I have in any way had any adverse impact.
It is so hard relating personal stuff online and I want to assure you and everyyone that I have only the highest regard for all your opinions. After all it is challenges like this that broaden our own perspectives. This has helped me so much since I joined Treeleaf and it is really good to know there are really good people like yourself to discuss these things with.

Many bows to you, in gassho Nigel.

[Saijun]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

It is so hard relating personal stuff online and I want to assure you and everyyone that I have only the highest regard for all your opinions. After all it is challenges like this that broaden our own perspectives.

Well said, Nigel.

After re-reading my last post, I realize it came across as overly harsh, and I'd like to take this opportunity to apologize for any offenses it caused.

Metta,

Perry

[Geika]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I have read about making a kind of statement by meditating in public places with a sign that says something simple like, "peace," or perhaps a pamphlet for your cause. Maybe an open invitation to sit with you...

..We can represent the sangha and our teachings socially by just answering questions when we are asked, living the teachings, and perhaps taking up our own cause whenever we see fit.

It is not a question of waiving the dharma flag and saying, "Hey, you! Yeah you, the non-Buddhist over there! Come here and read this suttra and live these Precepts, and maybe you can be a good person like me!"

It was not my intention to wave any flag. I was merely offering suggestions I had read and heard of for people who might be willing to put themselves out there.

As far as I'm concerned, I just try to do good where I see I can. I don't have the means nor the desire for any big projects or advertising.

If I upset anyone I apologize, especially to those I quoted, I removed the names but I know that is little better than nothing.

I am not really insulted or upset, because my quotes had been misconstrued by you.

However, I am annoyed that you didn't accredit our posts to us. Seems really back-handed, like... here's the wall of shame! You're basically saying that you feel as if having our name posted in that little line-up would be something worth being embarrassed over...

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

However, I am annoyed that you didn't accredit our posts to us. Seems really back-handed, like... here's the wall of shame! You're basically saying that you feel as if having our name posted in that little line-up would be something worth being embarrassed over...

I can see how it could come across that way, and for that I ask your forgiveness. It wasn't my intent to insinuate that the people whom I quoted would or even should be embarrassed by them. In fact the embarrassment is all mine, because I should have thought that out better.

I also want to make sure that we all understand that I'm not just talking about a "big project" but I am talking about a project that in some way we can all be involved in and at the same time let people know about Treeleaf and the teachings. Even if it was something like we each pick a day of a month or each month and sit some where highly visible for a particular cause. Like sitting in a public square with a sign saying "Give Darfur Peace" or something.

Something we can all get behind. It doesn't need to be a huge undertaking nor require loads of time, but something visible, something for anyone in Treeleaf who wants to participate, and something that shows the horse where the water is, so to speak.

Again, I apologize for my lack of forethought on my previous post. I'll have to add working on that to the already very long list. ops:

[Geika]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

However, I am annoyed that you didn't accredit our posts to us. Seems really back-handed, like... here's the wall of shame! You're basically saying that you feel as if having our name posted in that little line-up would be something worth being embarrassed over...

I can see how it could come across that way, and for that I ask your forgiveness. It wasn't my intent to insinuate that the people whom I quoted would or even should be embarrassed by them. In fact the embarrassment is all mine, because I should have thought that out better.

Forgiven before requested! =)

_/_

[Nenka]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I very much like Stephanie's Web of Interconnection thread . . . but I totally missed it first time around! Would it be possible to make it a "sticky" thread or something so it isn't buried?

Also . . . I know socially engaged buddhism isn't just about giving money to some cause, but I recently came across this website called Buddha Badges. You can get these lovely little Buddhism badges (pins) for $1 each and the money goes to a cause, which changes every month. It's pretty neat. If anyone is interested: http://buddhabadges.com/index.html

Gassho

Jennifer

[Heisoku]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

This thread is going the way of the vultures in the Jungle Book;
Buzzie: Hey Flaps, So what we were going to do?
Flaps: I don't know, what'cha wanna do?
Buzzie: Look Flaps, first I say "what were going to do?" then you say "I don't know, what'cha wanna do?" then I say "what we're going to do" then you say what'cha wanna do", let's do something!
Flaps: Ok. What'cha wanna do?

So here's an idea following on from Stephanie's ideas in Treeleaf Service Project: "Web of Interconnection" viewtopic.php?p=40838#p40838 in conjunction with Da5id's dharma 2.0 idea;
What about an invite-only online chatroom/forum for specific groups of isolated people; bereaved, dying, elderly, disabled?

Needs some planning and work but the basic premise is that they could;
a) be nominated by an existing Treeleaf member (encouraging direct social engagement),
b) communicate with like-situated people across the world,
c) communicate with empathetic individuals from Treeleaf, who could maintain a communicative presence within the chatrooms/forum,
d) find some comfort from their isolation... and perhaps find a way to the dharma (that ones for Chris! :twisted: )
e) Get a free badge when they join! .. and a Treeleaf beanie! (that one's for Jennifer ).

Gassho's to all,

Nigel

[Saijun]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

e) Get a free badge when they join! .. and a Treeleaf beanie! (that one's for Jennifer ).

Gassho's to all,

Nigel

I'm all kinds of up for a Treeleaf Beanie. Cafepress, anyone?

But really, I'll support any project that the Sangha sets up, in whatever way that I can.

Metta,

Perry

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I don't know many socially Isolated people. But I bet I could find some. I'd be up for being online and in a specific chat room, and I can commit some time every week (need to schedule it though). I also get money from some writing assignements I did on eHow, so I can contribute some of that to buying a button :P for those who join. But can I get a beenie too?

I was also thinking, maybe we can pick a social cause, peace in a country at war, going green, whatever we want and maybe sit some where in a park (during the warmer months) with some free info on how to make a change. I also thought we could order those rubber bracelets and give them out to people with some kind of saying on them. I would like to propose "I vow with all beings to save this world."

Makes people think.

I'm in on the web of interconnection. I'll be glad to provide an open ear, and an open heart.

[Saijun]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

But can I get a beenie too?

Really, it might be a good way to raise operating funds for a project, if donations from us don't cover all of it.

Just a thought.

Metta,

Perry

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I'm with you on that. Beanies, maybe some of those rubber bracelets, tee shirts, I'm all for it. Just as long as the purpose stays pure. I'm going to start a new thread, and I'd like to ask anyone with an idea to put it out there, as many details as possible. Let's see if we can get behind one idea (even though we know it is not one and not two)

[Saijun]

Re: Socially Engaged Buddhism

I'm with you on that. Beanies, maybe some of those rubber bracelets, tee shirts, I'm all for it. Just as long as the purpose stays pure.

Highly agreed. Perhaps, though, we should get a seal of approval from Jundo and Taigu before making grandiose plans. I do think that the merchandising might be a slippery slope further on down the road.

I vote for smile, breathe, and (above all) go slowly. We want to do this, whatever 'this' winds up being, as skillfully and correctly as possible.

Much metta,

Perry