Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

[Taigu]

The great voice of the teacher comes in many ways...

Eika writes:

Some teachers say that the 4 Noble Truths are the essence of Buddhism. Some say compassion is the essence. I was drawn to Zen because it stressed that doing meditation was the essence. Not thinking of rules or philosophies, but doing. Thinking about sewing or wearing the kesa is just that, thinking (in itself a form of doing, but trickier), but doing the rakusu or kesa is a different matter entirely. When the rakusu or kesa is practiced, it is not a thing or an idea (as some of the comments above suggest) but a form of doing that is unique to Zen. That is why I do it. Not to be more "authentic" or Japanese (as if that is possible for a Tennessean). And the more I do this, the more it reveals itself to be the same as sitting. As Jiyu Kennet Roshi stressed, "one cannot split enlightenment."

It is a bit like Nishijima Roshi's views on the 4 philosophies. We can err by idealizing Zen practices, that is, thinking about them as abstract concepts and philosophies. We can err by taking a materialist approach that says that Zen practices are meaninglessly empty of anything we don't bring to them. We can find a middle path between these that avoids conceptualizing these practices without abandoning them, or at least giving them a fair shake before moving on.

So, my take is that abandoning something before even doing it is a bit like my kids saying they don't like asparagus before they even taste it. But, if after trying it a while you don't perceive it as being important to your practice, drop it and move on. I would also add that by "fair shake" I mean something a bit more long-term than most people might think. A year is maybe what I'm thinking. What's the hurry anyway?

Gassho to everyone,
Eika

PS--I have to remind myself too that we gain nothing from any of these things and to not evaluate practices by whether or not I get something out of it.

Something I have to get off my chest...

The sewing thread is a desert. How many of you are taking Jukai? How many?!!!

Do you think you can do without this bib-rakusu-thing and do it YOUR way?

How many guys out there getting ready for jukai and not doing what is requested?

Well, Jukai means to surrender to BUDDHA's way.And the kesa is Buddha's body. And Buddha's body is wraped in the kesa. Kesa and Samadhi seen as one. Even today. Even now. It is not a Japanese thing, something cultural you can get rid of.

If you want to practice as a lay person, it is OK, Perfect. You don't need a kesa because this boundless life is already it.

If you want to take jukai, it is a different ballgame. It starts with needle and thread, not just wordy threads, and lots of work, struggle...and joy.Perry, Don the diligent, Cyril, Jikyo ( a sweet friend I have met without meeting countless times), Joe, Taylor ( wonderful Taylor, wonderful), Sylvie (great work, sweetheart), Richard the generous, Peter, Nigel, Dday, Chris are OUR teachers. Boddhisatvas. They just do it. No chat-talk, just the journey into a world that nobody can fathom.

If you guys want me to do the calligraphy on the back of your rakusu, I'll do it, but you will have to send your rakusu to me. I will do it on the back of it. Making the ink , getting the seals ready and thinking of each of you, between a one or two cup of tea.

As far as the other guys are concerned, well, I can only speak for myself...In my clouded eyes, they are doing it selfishly wrong where they could take the opportunity to surrender the self. The fact they resist and persist is an obvious sign. You can say it is tough, not fair, throw criticism at me ( instead of looking at your own issues...). Treeleaf is not a salon to discuss exciting issues, try to talk philosophically and give one's opinion about this and that. It is a practice place. Sitting and sewing.


Please reflect. Sit and reflect. Backward step.

gassho


Taigu

[Saijun]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Thank you, Rev. Taigu.

I realize that I haven't posted any pictures, but I promise that I've been working on the Rakusu. As soon as I can get over the technology gap, I will post some.

And the reading and studying: I am a little slow to digest things, and it seems that by the time I have an insight worth sharing, it has already been discussed at length .

I promise that I am doing the work, and apologize for my dullness.

Metta,

Perry

[chicanobudista]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

I never started (is there ever an end?) but with my wife expecting, two jobs, taking care of elder parents, I am more of a lurker than an active presence. Locally, there may arise an opportunity of taking Jukai tru Austin, Texas. It may (big MAY) include a sewing group here locally. So rather than commit then not follow up....best to you one and all in your Jukai. ...gassho....

[Jundo]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Hi,

I am with Taigu.

This 'sewing' is not sewing with needle and thread.

Thus, if one has not sewn a Rakusu, every stitch, one may not (absent -very- special reasons, after consultation with the teachers) undertake Jukai here.

Taigu asks folks undertaking Jukai through him to send their hand sewn Rakusu by post to him in Japan for inscription, and I usually just mail the back panel alone to each person undertaking Jukai through me (asking them to then sew it into their otherwise ready Rakusu without mailing me the whole Rakusu. Taigu and I both also request a charitable contribution be made, in a suggested amount, to a public charity as dana). Obviously, my way requires a bit of the "honor system" ... which I think is fine in light of "Jukai" being about the Precepts and honesty. However, I would consider that a back panel sent to anyone who has not hand sewn each stitch of a Rakusu (absent the aforesaid unusual circumstances precleared with Taigu and me) ... DOES NOT COUNT! :twisted:

Toward the end of November, we will ask people to mail their Rakusu to Taigu or promise me that their Rakusu will be ready.

If someone does not understand why all this is so ... you just do not understand.

Gassho, Jundo

[Stephanie]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Taigu,

It goes both ways.

I have discontinued my participation in this year's Jukai, as I notified Jundo via PM a couple of days ago, because I do not currently feel connected enough to the sangha, or committed enough to an intensive practice schedule, for it to be appropriate for me to continue with Jukai at this time. A lot of this is my own dramatically shifting life circumstances, but some of it is the sangha here too.

Jundo comes and goes because he is busy, you pick and choose who you respond to and when. Whenever you make your lists of people that you like and whose practice you are supporting, I never seem to be on the list, no matter how intense my practice is or isn't. I know I'm not the only one who feels completely ignored by you.

Jundo appealed to me to come up with a service project for the sangha and I put a lot of effort into developing and refining an idea, but when the next step was feedback from the rest of the sangha, the thread fell to the bottom of the forum, untouched and forgotten. There it still sits. For all the enthusiasm expressed about the idea, no one actually wanted to take action; so I understand your frustration.

I give 100% when I feel supported and am encouraged. With this sangha over the last few weeks, I feel like I have been practicing alone. Your words rankle me because basically what you are saying is, "You should be making this incredible effort on your own." You don't have to humble yourself as an impartial servant of the sangha, you pick and choose who you like and who you pay attention to, and those of us who feel you've never been interested in our lives or practice aren't exactly inspired to drop what we are doing and salute when you berate us for our lack of effort (how would you even know what our effort is?). I constantly am working with my own resistance and facing my own issues; this is the heart of my own practice. If I did not have resistance, and everything came easy, then what would be the point of being a student?

I'm not impressed by the old model of a student surrendering completely to a teacher and obeying without asking questions or challenging, which is the model you seem to like. There are too many so-called teachers unworthy of my deference that I refuse to submit and obey until a teacher has earned my trust. I find you almost completely inaccessible and unwilling to work with students who have a different style than you prefer. I don't find your effort to reach and engage all your students is equal to their effort to work with you, so color me unimpressed.

Stephanie

[Saijun]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Hello Stephanie,

While I know that your response was directed at Taigu, I have a question (really, I'm not trying to stir something up, just curious as to how you see things): how can a teacher earn your trust if you are unwilling to submit to their teaching, if even for a little while?

I've always viewed it as a question of faith: faith in the teacher, faith in the teachings, faith in the community; faith that what we're trying to do is both possible and worthwhile.

I'm in the same boat sometimes, feeling that I'm practicing alone. But in the end, the responsibility for practice sits with each one of us, no?

Again, I'm just curious as to how you see things. Not trying to take sides, since I obviously don't know the whole story.

Metta to you, and everyone else.

Perry

[Stephanie]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Perry,

Your questions are fair, and I appreciate them.

I do submit to the teaching; it's not as if I refuse to do anything asked of us. But, as I expect is the case with many, I struggle with it. I fall off or forget, life throws curve balls, and I struggle with a massive set of tasks and responsibilities for which I have no help. To come to my sangha, my safe space, and to have the same crap thrown in my face that the uncaring city I just left threw in my face daily, "Sink or swim, I'm not going to help you," doesn't make me want to run away, but it doesn't exactly elicit my sympathy or obedience. If you're not giving me anything to help me out, why would I be distressed at the threat it will be taken away?

When I first started this practice, I was every bit as enthusiastic and apologetic for my failures to be perfect as Taylor, every bit as willing to submit to anyone in spiritual authority who said things that struck me as wise. But I've lived through some shit over the past few years and it's changed my attitude. I don't feel sorry for who I am, I don't feel guilty or ashamed about my imperfections, I marvel at the fact that I'm not more ornery than I am, and am not ready to apologize to anyone after struggling for years to help myself and others without anyone's help beyond that of a few select members of my immediate family.

The one person who helped me the most spiritually in these last few years is Chet, who continues to be expelled from this sangha because he's got rough edges too, which doesn't exactly heighten my trust in the teachers here who have been less instrumental in my spiritual healing than the person they decided was unteachable. It makes me think that in the end here, I might be deemed unteachable as well, and if not banished (again), ghettoized and marginalized relative to the star students capable of perfect obedience.

I'm not a wide-eyed 19 year old like I once was; life has knocked a lot of that naive idealism out of me and I know my demons a lot better. Sometimes demons dress up as angels, and people who seek to please often are haunted by demons of shame and neglect, of low self-esteem. And many of them come crawling into the halls of spiritual places, all too eager to submit to an authority who makes them feel as deficient as Mommy or Daddy or whoever else did. That was once me... but no longer. I acknowledge my failings, and work with them, but I no longer feel shame for them. It took a long time to heal to the point I don't daily feel sorry about my existence, and no one, no matter how impressive they seem to be, will ever take me back to that place.

If I am to practice alone, I will practice alone, but I will not practice alone under the pretense that someone else is helping me, when they're not. If someone does not wish to teach me, that is fine, I can accept that, but I'm not going to play pretend that someone is teaching me when they are actually refusing to teach me.

Stephanie

[Shogen]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Perry,

Your questions are fair, and I appreciate them.

I do submit to the teaching; it's not as if I refuse to do anything asked of us. But, as I expect is the case with many, I struggle with it. I fall off or forget, life throws curve balls, and I struggle with a massive set of tasks and responsibilities for which I have no help. To come to my sangha, my safe space, and to have the same crap thrown in my face that the uncaring city I just left threw in my face daily, "Sink or swim, I'm not going to help you," doesn't make me want to run away, but it doesn't exactly elicit my sympathy or obedience. If you're not giving me anything to help me out, why would I be distressed at the threat it will be taken away?

When I first started this practice, I was every bit as enthusiastic and apologetic for my failures to be perfect as Taylor, every bit as willing to submit to anyone in spiritual authority who said things that struck me as wise. But I've lived through some shit over the past few years and it's changed my attitude. I don't feel sorry for who I am, I don't feel guilty or ashamed about my imperfections, I marvel at the fact that I'm not more ornery than I am, and am not ready to apologize to anyone after struggling for years to help myself and others without anyone's help beyond that of a few select members of my immediate family.

The one person who helped me the most spiritually in these last few years is Chet, who continues to be expelled from this sangha because he's got rough edges too, which doesn't exactly heighten my trust in the teachers here who have been less instrumental in my spiritual healing than the person they decided was unteachable. It makes me think that in the end here, I might be deemed unteachable as well, and if not banished (again), ghettoized and marginalized relative to the star students capable of perfect obedience.

I'm not a wide-eyed 19 year old like I once was; life has knocked a lot of that naive idealism out of me and I know my demons a lot better. Sometimes demons dress up as angels, and people who seek to please often are haunted by demons of shame and neglect, of low self-esteem. And many of them come crawling into the halls of spiritual places, all too eager to submit to an authority who makes them feel as deficient as Mommy or Daddy or whoever else did. That was once me... but no longer. I acknowledge my failings, and work with them, but I no longer feel shame for them. It took a long time to heal to the point I don't daily feel sorry about my existence, and no one, no matter how impressive they seem to be, will ever take me back to that place.

If I am to practice alone, I will practice alone, but I will not practice alone under the pretense that someone else is helping me, when they're not. If someone does not wish to teach me, that is fine, I can accept that, but I'm not going to play pretend that someone is teaching me when they are actually refusing to teach me.

Stephanie

Hi Stephanie
The begginning is always where enthusiasm runs its highest. Wide eyed with our perception and goals of attaining something in full bloom. When we start to remove what we "thought" was our practice and begin to realize some of the basic truths of it perhaps, some disallusionment occurs. The teachings of Jundo and Taigu may make specific mention of names in there responses but really the teachings in them are for any and everyone that is ready to really listen to their content. The Radiant Moon shines its light without discrimination
see the teachings in the same light. A little less ego and silence may open a new view of reality. Just listen and learn in silence for a while and then make your decision to proceed as you wish, or not. We were not hogtied and dragged into Tree Leaf it was our choice and the same applies if we choose to leave. Please don't berate those who have given so much of their time and effort because they don't fit the bill of your likes and dislikes. Giving without anything in return except the growth of those they teach is a very noble effort.
My very best wishes. gassho zak

[Stephanie]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

I'm sorry if I'm being too harsh, in ways unintended or toward those at whom these sentiments are not directed. I am deeply appreciative of Jundo, who has been and continues to be a significant support and teaching figure in my practice, and have learned from Taigu.

However, I am very wary of, and will actively fight against, a culture of automatic deference to authority. I believe that coaching and coaxing people into being obedient, apologetic and full of shame about their perceived failures to meet their authority figure's standards does a disservice to those people who, if they carry such a way of being into other contexts, will be easily exploited by others. I am irritated by the shaming tone that comes across to me in Taigu's words and refuse to honor or go along with it. If Taigu feels the need to teach in this way, I am happy to return the favor and respond in kind. If we do not want people to berate one another here, I think the standard should go across the board. There's ways to critique and spur students without turning things into a parade of shaming.

[Jinyu]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Hi everyone!
Important questions are asked here. Our dedication and the will to really share our practice is what makes us a Sangha. I trully understand Taigu's (and Jundo) point here! Even if that can seem a bit authoritarian, Jukai is a big step and we must respect it.
Now, I'm not a member since a long time, and I believe that last year, and even the year before, most Leafers did share their sewing at the very end, just before (or a month maybe) Jukai (note that I can be wrong).
All this to say that the medium we use to share (Internet) is a gift and a curse at the same time! It's so easy to "hide" behind our screens, or to take all the place and hide other's practices.

Now, Stephanie, I think your are talking from a very different thing. The efforts you (and I believe Jundo but I can be wrong again) on your project is immense, and it is true that WE didn't give it the attention it needed. But that was not our teachers fault ( I may be wrong again but...). The project is huge and perfectly valuable, but maybe, in some case, it is redundant we the practice some may have (I know it is for some people including myself, or it is just difficult to adjust with every practice we do here at Treeleaf.

I don't try to excuse just to understand, I mean that I can understand that someone new to Treeleaf made the choice to participate to the Ango (AND ALL THE COMMITMENTS IT INCLUDES) and maybe feel that he could also engage in Jukai (AND ALL THE COMMITMENTS INCLUDED) and want also to dedicate a bit of his time for reading other posts on the forum... and of course have a family and a job...
I can understand they are sincerely lost and didn't thought at first that it will be so difficult...
But this practice is not about being easy , AU CONTRAIRE! Maybe it is the best time for them/us to truly practice, when it is not easy at all.

Again, I don't try to excuse anyone, just to understand... All we do here is experimental and based on the dedication of our teachers, ordained monks, and Sangha members... things are not evident... we are constructing something, and sometimes like when sewing a rakusu, we need to destroy and make again in order to understand what went wrong...

For that thank you Taigu for remembering us, that this is not a "Dharma-shop" where we come to fill ourselves with spiritual materialism but that it is a place to practice and share as a Sangha!

deep bows,
humbly,
Jinyu

[Jinyu]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

There's ways to critique and spur students without turning things into a parade of shaming.

Hi Stephanie,
I perfectly understand what you say and I understand your opinion. As always it is a pain in the ass, I'm not you and generally your words are like eating knifes to me... but it is a good medicine for what I've got :lol: Thank you! But...

Sincerely, I think you mix to very different things.

One thing is to respect, listen and answer to a teacher in a kind way, respectful of the "frame of the practice and dialogue" that allow this relation. Even if sometimes that can be quite rude or difficult to both.
And another thing is to say Amen to every thing someone seen as a mentor could say without any safe "frame of relation" that allow to understand and see in what situation the things are said.

Otherwise you could say that most people in this Sangha, including me of course, is just a good old "ass licker" that spend is time around the teachers to inflate his own Ego...
I understand the point... but sincerely, isn't that view a bit "childish"? We are not engaged in a crusade against liberty of thought that includes allegiance.
But a relation of respect to everyone ( teachers too) suppose a common "frame of dialogue and practice". And that includes being there to say that we are happy about this or that ( it is so rare in our world to share our happiness sincerely with each other, here we do this with people from all over the world that we try to know and practice with!).
And also accepting the words of people who want our good in this practice, and they may be teachers, ordained folks, or just other Leafers as our Ango-partners for example.

Sometimes it is just good to respect our tradition and teachers because we decided it; and in return they are true to us even if that means "slapping our Ego faces". To me that proves the respect between each other.
Saying what is true and accepting it is difficult, but that is in my opinion what makes a true relation.

A guru saying that I'm always right and good might be something very different...
That doesn't mean that we are sheep or anything...

That doesn't mean that we don't interpret the words of others, that we "eat without looking" in our plate (I don't know if that means something in English sorry).

All this to say that a good friend giving you a slap in the face for your good, is sometimes just a good friend... no matter how he express it... That doesn't change the dedication and sincerity that most of us give and receive in this wonderful adventure...

Call me Buddhist romantic... or even namby pamby ... but that's truly how I feel.
Now, I will stop talking about this because this is not a fight. I truly love your posts and that doesn't mean I know you... I just try to share my point of view... so please don't take it personal...

Deep gassho,
humbly,
Jinyu

[Yugen]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

My dear colleagues,
A few thoughts:

- Surrender to the teachings and not the teacher?

- The Kesa identified as the body of the Buddha reminds me of the Greek Orthodox / Catholic practices of communion, etc. where wine represents the body of Christ... whatever happened to "when you meet the Buddha, kill him?

-I find the potential emergence of dogmatic guidelines to be intellectually arteriosclerotic and worthy of a reality (!) check.... reality is defined by some as contact with the immediacy of one's own experience. A lot is to be gained by the act and experience of sewing and the journey it entails. There are also folks out there who have sewn Kesa and have done a miserable job of their practice and adhering to their vows (I am foremost among them).

Just my two cents....

A deep bow to you all, and thank you for a lively discussion,

Yugen

[Eika]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

There are many music students who show up to college music programs who are largely self-taught. Many of them are very bright and talented. These students also, however, often have strange quirks in the actual technique of playing (using lots of pressure on the neck of a guitar, curving their spine at the piano, playing with too much pressure on the trumpet mouthpiece, etc.). These idiosyncrasies are often the first areas the professional music teacher wants to address because they are the foundation of every sound they will make on their instrument later. But, the students often resist because they have learned to compensate for their quirks. This works fine for them until they are required to start practicing 3-6 hours per day. Then, these quirks are no longer benign. They are carpal-tunnel inducing, lip-tearing nightmares and can spell the end to any real development as a professional musician. Accordingly, many of the best music teachers I know are ones who will tell a student that they have no desire to teach them if they will not address these critical areas, because the student can truly cause themselves permanent damage by doing things "their way." I won't be party to a student injuring their hands on my watch either. Creative work does not mean anything goes. Lastly, the students who do "fix" their technique as they learn are often amazed after a year or two at how much better they can play and remain injury free. Sometimes we don't know what is best for us. Sometimes the teacher does. Sometimes. Trust is the key. If we don't think a teacher has our best interest at heart or is incompetent in their teaching, we should not study with them.

So, I'm cool with a grumpy Taigu saying that he is not comfortable giving folks Jukai who haven't done things in the way he would like. That's his judgement to make as a teacher. If he thinks it is unhealthy to do Jukai any other way, that's his choice. No one is forcing him to teach and no one is forcing us to study.

I realize I'm old enough (42) to be moving away from my "authority issues" of youth.

Gassho,
Eika

PS--A college diploma is not necessary for everyone.

[Taigu]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Hi Yugen,

Many levels of understanding for killing the Buddha...

The most superficial one, don't be attached to the Buddha.
The second one, don't create, make a Buddha separate form this life and these beings.
The third one, forget about the Buddha.
The fourth one, as you become one with the Buddha, the Buddha is killed on the spot, instantly. No traces of Buddha left.

Most people stay at the fisrt level of understanding and claim independance, the right to do this, to think that, criticize and question every inch of the path. Or they want to kill the teacher... :P


and of course, these four understandings can be experienced all together, at once :wink:

[Taigu]

Re: Where are all the guys gone?...Rakusu blues

Hi Eika,

Very relevant. The only thing is that it is not about what i like, but what the tradition requires us to do.

gassho

Taigu