the will to study and listen

[Onshin]

Re: the will to study and listen

Thank you richard, for the insightful post, the poem and of course the cartoon.

Gassho

Joe

[Shokai]

Re: the will to study and listen

Thanks Joe, I trust you feel enlightened

gassho, Richard

[Shogen]

Re: the will to study and listen

Thank you for this sharing of insights and experiences; if I may, I'd like to add mine in hope that I don't bore you all:

My introduction to Zen Buddhism was in a Japanese Temple. It was all very fascinating but awkward; difficult to make those three deep bows, to enter with the right(proper) unshod foot, to hold hands a certain way, to sit with legs cramped (it was the only way, there were no chairs) in an unheated building , to be still for such a long period, to listen to the droning voice of the priest go on and on in a foreign language, :? to join in the chanting of such unintelligible verse. And yet, it moves one to the core; the warm delicious feeling of finally belonging, the acceptance of your fellow beings, the sights and smells that well up memories from so many eons before. i am left with so many Japanese friends that I have never communicated with verbally. And yet, we HAVE communicated. If you postpone judgement and be patient in the research, every thing is fascinating and the awkwardness falls away. The only way I know how to chant is in Japanese (although I had adored Gregorian Chants for many years); my bows and mudras are instinctive; they give meaning to my relationship with the universe.
I wrote a poem a few years back that I think fits here:

Beauty abounds

It is the acceptance of goodness over the rejection of evil
It is the quality that stirs or comforts the soul
It is the soulful song of a lone wolf or the piercing cry of an eagle
It is the radiance of a sunrise or the tranquility of a rainbow
It is the gracefulness of balance or the irony of buffoonery
It is the softness of a kitten or the ruggedness of a mountain path
It is the stillness of a meadow pond or the clamour of a babbling brook
It is the sweetness of honey or the tartness of a berry
It is the mellowness of sweetgrass or the acrid aroma of vinegar
It is a love of this planet; it is the zest for living
If one reserves judgement beauty happens everywhere

gassho,

Richard,
I never knew boredom could be such a gem. Thank you very much for sharing it. Gassho zak

[Jaana]

Re: the will to study and listen

Sit there, sit here ... ultimately no here or there. Sit at both and all. Just sit.

That, I can buy.

I am not personally convinced by the "do that which you resist" argument here, though. I get the point that sometimes we need to explore the directions that do not seem immediately appealing, to overcome certain personal limitations and rigidities in thinking, and I think that it is occasionally good to do things in a way other than the one that immediately suggests itself and feels appealing.

However, as a basis for accepting a religious or philosophical or moral concept, I don't think it works. If I chose my religion based on what I resist most, I'd be a fundamentalist Christian... :shock: :twisted:

[Jundo]

Re: the will to study and listen

Sit there, sit here ... ultimately no here or there. Sit at both and all. Just sit.

That, I can buy.

I am not personally convinced by the "do that which you resist" argument here, though. I get the point that sometimes we need to explore the directions that do not seem immediately appealing, to overcome certain personal limitations and rigidities in thinking, and I think that it is occasionally good to do things in a way other than the one that immediately suggests itself and feels appealing.

However, as a basis for accepting a religious or philosophical or moral concept, I don't think it works. If I chose my religion based on what I resist most, I'd be a fundamentalist Christian... :shock: :twisted:

It is just that there is a vital element of this practice of dropping "likes and dislikes", dropping the self's constant "aversions and attractions". In order to do that, it is important to throw ourselves wholeheartedly sometimes (not all the time) into activities we resist, do not like, which repel us ... all while dropping that resistance and such. In a monastery, there are many activities for the Buddhist priests which more would rather not be doing ... from getting up at 4am on a cold morning to pulling weeds.

It's Practice.

Do that, and one has a somewhat different experience of life the next time it pulls you out of your sleep or tosses weeds at ya.

I did not mean that one had to lead one's whole life doing things one finds ugly or wrong, holding religious or political views in which one does not believe.

Gassho, J

[Jaana]

Re: the will to study and listen

It is just that there is a vital element of this practice of dropping "likes and dislikes", dropping the self's constant "aversions and attractions". In order to do that, it is important to throw ourselves wholeheartedly sometimes (not all the time) into activities we resist, do not like, which repel us ... all while dropping that resistance and such. In a monastery, there are many activities for the Buddhist priests which more would rather not be doing ... from getting up at 4am on a cold morning to pulling weeds.

It's Practice.

I understand this and I tend to agree. It might be a good idea to sew a kesa (or get up early or pull weeds) as part of practice because you think it is boring, or stupid, or unpleasant, or waste of time, or whatever. For myself, I detest sitting when tired, or sleep deprived, but I still try and do it if my current routine says to. Because sitting only when I feel like it would be sort of contrary to the point of "just sitting", no?

However, I think that this is different from "you should accept that sewing a kesa is essential, because it is important that you do things that you resist". I do not believe that the sewing is any more essential than getting up at 4 or pulling weeds. They can all be seen as essential or non-essential or you can just drop the whole distinction between the two.

I accept that it might be good practice to sew. Maybe I will one day. I accept that things we experience as unpleasant are part of life, and I try to not resist them more than comes naturally (that is to say, I also try to not resist the resisting, if you see what I mean ).

But I do not believe that sewing a particular garment is the one activity (as opposed to pulling weeds or getting up at 4 AM) that is necessary in addition to the sitting itself, and I do not think trying to convince me to think so by appealing to the fact that we should do that which we resist makes much sense.

No offense meant. If it works for you, it works for you. It is just not something I can in all honesty subscribe to, and I feel it would be wrong of me to pretend that I do.

[sweetgum]

Re: the will to study and listen

Sit there, sit here ... ultimately no here or there. Sit at both and all. Just sit.

That, I can buy.

I am not personally convinced by the "do that which you resist" argument here, though. I get the point that sometimes we need to explore the directions that do not seem immediately appealing, to overcome certain personal limitations and rigidities in thinking, and I think that it is occasionally good to do things in a way other than the one that immediately suggests itself and feels appealing.

However, as a basis for accepting a religious or philosophical or moral concept, I don't think it works. If I chose my religion based on what I resist most, I'd be a fundamentalist Christian... :shock: :twisted:

Oh this is religous fundamentalism !

All they need is bumper stickers that say BUDDHA SAYS IT I BELIEVE IT AND THAT SETTLES IT

So sit down shut up and sew your kesa.

[chicanobudista]

Re: the will to study and listen

Zen. Soccer.
Soccer. Zen.
Don't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2jhYo3iAGQ[/video]]

[chicanobudista]

Re: the will to study and listen

Keishin and Stephanie.....thanks for your comments.

[Eika]

Re: the will to study and listen

Hi, folks.

Some teachers say that the 4 Noble Truths are the essence of Buddhism. Some say compassion is the essence. I was drawn to Zen because it stressed that doing meditation was the essence. Not thinking of rules or philosophies, but doing. Thinking about sewing or wearing the kesa is just that, thinking (in itself a form of doing, but trickier), but doing the rakusu or kesa is a different matter entirely. When the rakusu or kesa is practiced, it is not a thing or an idea (as some of the comments above suggest) but a form of doing that is unique to Zen. That is why I do it. Not to be more "authentic" or Japanese (as if that is possible for a Tennessean). And the more I do this, the more it reveals itself to be the same as sitting. As Jiyu Kennet Roshi stressed, "one cannot split enlightenment."

It is a bit like Nishijima Roshi's views on the 4 philosophies. We can err by idealizing Zen practices, that is, thinking about them as abstract concepts and philosophies. We can err by taking a materialist approach that says that Zen practices are meaninglessly empty of anything we don't bring to them. We can find a middle path between these that avoids conceptualizing these practices without abandoning them, or at least giving them a fair shake before moving on.

So, my take is that abandoning something before even doing it is a bit like my kids saying they don't like asparagus before they even taste it. But, if after trying it a while you don't perceive it as being important to your practice, drop it and move on. I would also add that by "fair shake" I mean something a bit more long-term than most people might think. A year is maybe what I'm thinking. What's the hurry anyway?

Gassho to everyone,
Eika

PS--I have to remind myself too that we gain nothing from any of these things and to not evaluate practices by whether or not I get something out of it.

[bayamo]

Re: the will to study and listen

Zen. Soccer.
Soccer. Zen.
Don't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2jhYo3iAGQ[/video]]

Totally OT, but Nakamura was a free kick monster. Gave Celtic a Cup and all.

[Taigu]

Re: the will to study and listen

Thank you for your teaching, Eika.

gassho

Taigu

[Hans]

Re: the will to study and listen

Hello Eika,

let me thank you for your posting as well.

Two days ago i was too tired to sit in the evening....however our black cat WAS sitting (not lying) on my blanket....he can surely do Full Lotus if only he wanted do. His living example made me stop my thought trains (too tired...don't want to etc.)...and I just sat down on my zafu and did it.


Gassho,

Hans

[AlanLa]

Re: the will to study and listen

Well said, Elka. It made me wonder how many people that dismiss it ever tried it (sewing a rakusu), or how many that have done it then dismissed it. My guess is most that do it find the meaning and value in the process and thus don't dismiss the non-outcome. I know this is true for me. Sometimes you have to BE there to get it, sometimes you have to DO it to get it, or else we end up talking past each other because we come from different experiences. I think I see that in this thread.

[Eika]

Re: the will to study and listen

Just giving a little back to all you all who teach me so much all the time.

Gassho,
Eika