Jundo's latest vid

[monkton]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Hi Greg,

I just wanted to say that I can sympathise with you, so don't feel that you're the only one a year behind everyone else in the class and feeling wrong at every turn.

(I also have self imposed "shut up" modes, from time to time, although I don't contribute enough in depth or frequency for anyone to notice!)

I would just say this though: try and take some time to look at your own feelings about what you've read here, whatever they are - they're not wrong, even when they feel 'wrong'.

Maybe you can recognise something in this, if not just ignore it: while reading this, or any other 'lively' thread I often find a "self-defence commentator" interposed somewhere between me and the screen telling me what to think about each post. In the current thread he's been calling out all sorts of names, (fey, passive aggressive, intransigent, self serving, honest, perceptive, correct, witty, disarming - he's been having a field day), and if I pay him attention I can feel my mood change depending on what he happens to be calling out, and it's really disconcerting.

I reckon he's there to try to put me on my guard against anything that is threatening 'my' little world view and the cosy little nest which contains my notions about what 'my' practice is and 'my' ideas of what Buddhism should be. It's perfectly natural and I wish I could just get over him, but no joy on that front so far. I just react, react react, in any way he says. And drifting off to the 'peace' and sanctuary of the zafu until everyone in Treeleaf gets their heads sorted out (i.e. comes back round to my way of thinking), might feel very appealing, might even be what I do from time to time, but isn't really what this is all about.

There's a lot to learn here (this thread has really helped with one of the blocks I had about the whole idea of rakusu sewing - I was very caught up in it being a buddhist 'thing', but in Jundo's post I got a glimpse of what it can be used for in terms of adding cohesion to the sangha, and beng more than an end in itself), and the lessons change and we change and we get glimpses here and there and we forget other stuff too. And some folks seem to get everything in flashes of lightning, and can express it again perfectly, and some of us are just bobbing in the water hoping to absorb something by osmosis. But the best way to do learn anything is to get stuck into it, which you already do far me than me as it is, so I hope you continue to stick with it, and give yourself time to digest how you feel about it all, and allow yourself to learn not just from what is said here, but from yourself, because you'll remember that teaching better than any other.

gassho,
Monkton

[ghop]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

There's a lot to learn here (this thread has really helped with one of the blocks I had about the whole idea of rakusu sewing - I was very caught up in it being a buddhist 'thing', but in Jundo's post I got a glimpse of what it can be used for in terms of adding cohesion to the sangha, and beng more than an end in itself), and the lessons change and we change and we get glimpses here and there and we forget other stuff too. And some folks seem to get everything in flashes of lightning, and can express it again perfectly, and some of us are just bobbing in the water hoping to absorb something by osmosis. But the best way to do learn anything is to get stuck into it, which you already do far me than me as it is, so I hope you continue to stick with it, and give yourself time to digest how you feel about it all, and allow yourself to learn not just from what is said here, but from yourself, because you'll remember that teaching better than any other.

Monkton,

I really don't know what to say. This is probably the soundest advice
I have received. I have so much "growing up" to do, so many pre-
conceived ideas of what awakening is, etc.

I would just say this though: try and take some time to look at your own feelings about what you've read here, whatever they are - they're not wrong, even when they feel 'wrong'.

Maybe you can recognise something in this, if not just ignore it: while reading this, or any other 'lively' thread I often find a "self-defence commentator" interposed somewhere between me and the screen telling me what to think about each post. In the current thread he's been calling out all sorts of names, (fey, passive aggressive, intransigent, self serving, honest, perceptive, correct, witty, disarming - he's been having a field day), and if I pay him attention I can feel my mood change depending on what he happens to be calling out, and it's really disconcerting.

I will take this advice to heart. I think it will do me alot of good.

gassho
Greg

[Hans]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Hi everyone,

some wonderful posts in this thread (I don't mean just "nice" by wonderful btw.). Before I started sewing the kesa, I thought...gee, why can't I just buy the thing. However, now that I am approaching the finish line, I can finally appreciate the fact that this is an INTEGRAL part of our lineage. "We" Zennies have chosen (through following the examples of most Zen ancestors) not to have a thousand and one official means through which to realize our buddha nature. We have but a few (compared to e.g. the Tibetan tradition with its myriad forms), with Zazen being the core of everything. Oryoki and sewing are among those few, those happy few ways that are the bedrock of our actual living practise.

Life around me is not always nice, although I am a happy and blessed person...yet no matter whether the sun shone or rain was splashing down...I had to get myself to sew a bit further in the last months. Due to my wife's support and her not minding my spending so much time with this seemingly crooked rice field pattern cloth too much, these clumsy fingers (and I mean CLUMSY!!! Don't ever ask me for DIY advice folks please) have fallen in love with every painful stitch.

It is not just empty ritualism, but a practise that transcends notions of good day/ bad day....because the sewing has to continue in order to finish the Kesa, no matter what. Having said that, I feel that everyone who has known Jundo for a while knows that he's the last person not to offer a helping hand, a hug or a handkerchief when needed.

Rags and leftovers.The whole universe pricks my fingertips. In between each stitch there is crying and rejoicing.

And yes, it sucks big time when your loved ones suffer. Suffering sucks big time.
My granddad valiantly tried to hide my grandmother's dementia for a long long time, until he himself was suddenly facing greater physical difficulties than the wife he'd been married to for over fifty years. They both died in 2006, a bit later than my father in law that same year. What a year!

I hope that some of Kanzeon's blessings will enter the Kesa with every time I recite the Enmei Jukku Kannon Gyo under my breath. May all suffering beings find shelter under this vast robe of liberation.

Gassho,

Hans

[Jundo]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

I would be grateful to the person who handed me the broom and said, "Sweep."

Yeah, I understand all that. It's all a matter of personal differences.
Me, I'd get more comfort by sharing my suffering with a human being
than with a broom. It sometimes does alot to follow Thich Nhat Hanh's
advice, to embrace the person compassionately, and say, "My friend,
I am here for you." ... He says he's suffering. Ok. Hand him a needle
and some thread, cause in the end his mother, a living, breathing,
human being, is no different than a ritualistic bib that says, "I belong
to buddhism." I can't buy it. This forum seems to be becoming rather
stoic lately.... It
seems like everytime he speaks he is not heard because someone else
is shouting about how "tough" we have to be. To the outsider we would
seem rather cold.

Dear Greg,

I am sorry if I did not clearly communicate my love and friendship for Erik at this hard time in life. In a Sangha, this family, we share all of life ... sad days and happy days, easy times and hard times ... together. None of life is to be pushed away yet, when we need a brother and sister's strength to lean on, it is available here.

But the real power of this Way is something, a medicine, that must also be freely dispensed. Some find it bitter, some sweet, but it must be taken nonetheless ... especially at times of sorrow.

It is not "stoicism", as you described it, because it is fully welcoming and embracing of all the tears and change and pain. When you cry, just cry. (I remember how shocked I was when I saw my first teacher, Azuma Roshi, crying one day soon after his wife died. I thought Zen teachers were supposed to be above all that. I said to him "I thought 'life and death' are but a dream, so why are you crying? He responded, 'Life and death are but a dream. I am crying because my wife has died.')

Nor is our way to fall into, become strangled by, drown amid rampaging emotions ... for many people lose themselves in their sorrow and cannot see beyond that.

Rather, our way might be said to fully welcome it all ... the ups and downs ... while seeing too a place without "up or down, birth and death, peace or war" ... a very Peaceful, Whole place. There is no way we can be apart from or lose our mothers, fathers, husbands, wives and children there. We are never apart.

Thus, knowing this ... we live fully embracing of life, yet unattached to demands for how we wish things to be. We cry, and smile a Buddha's peaceful smile at the same time.

If one only sees the sewing as thread and cloth ... one does not understand. If you do not see what is being sewn, who is sewing, and the wholeness that is being created amid a wholeness never lost ... then you do not understand ...

... and that would be the fault of Taigu and myself for having failed to make it clear.

Sewing the Rakusu is sewing back together the pieces of a broken heart, it is seeing that all of life is just the same ... just this and just this and now just this. It teaches us that none of us can get through this life without some sorrow, disappointment and pain. It is, in fact, all of life when seen as such. Placed around the neck, it is the most intimate hug and embrace of friend to friend ... its finite cloth covers all the universe, all of life, all of the pain.

I often say that, if someone is truly now occupied by life ... by studying for exams in school, illness or war (although one member of the military, in a war zone, told me that he would be sewing on the front lines), or a dying mother ... one can tend to that, that is the priority and all one's energies should be there. Just take care of that now. That is the real Rakusu. As Erik said ...

When the rakusu is not on you physically, where is it? Where do you carry it? Where did you leave it? The old tattered rakusu that has no ink it it. The lineage that goes back to Buddha with a lineage of unknown teachers. Here it is in my heart. I sew it each moment. ... ... ...just life.

Yet I make them promise to sew it later, when they can, because it cannot be run from ... because life is not run from. (On the other hand, one woman told me that sewing the Rakusu in the Intensive Care Unit, sitting endless hours next to the bed of her dying husband, kept her sane. I have heard many stories like that. Sometimes, the hospital cancer ward, the foxhole, the prison cell is the best place to sew).

The true Rakusu is not visible ... thus we sew.

I just think if the Buddha were here (and he is, hello...) he would be a little more concerned
about people and a little less concerned about buddhism.

The Buddha (who might actually be called more "stoic" in the old Sutta, speaking of quelling emotions and such, than the more life embracing Mahayana Boddhisattva way) never failed to teach his Dharma lesson on life and death ... whether the person who came to him wanted to hear it or not. In the Piyajatika Sutta ... a householder of Sævatthi whose son had died went to see the Buddha ...

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery. Now at that time a certain householder's dear & beloved little son, his only child, had died. Because of his death, the father had no desire to work or to eat. He kept going to the cemetery and crying out, "Where have you gone, my only little child? Where have you gone, my only little child?"

Then he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there the Blessed One said to him, "Householder, your faculties are not those of one who is steady in his own mind. There is an aberration in your faculties."

"Lord, how could there not be an aberration in my faculties? My dear & beloved little son, my only child, has died. Because of his death, I have no desire to work or to eat. I keep going to the cemetery and crying out, 'Where have you gone, my only little child? Where have you gone, my only little child?'"

"That's the way it is, householder. That's the way it is — for sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are born from one who is dear, come springing from one who is dear."

But the householder did not want to hear this lesson on life and the mind's attachments ... So, he sought a pleasing answer from people who were willing to tell him what he wanted to hear.

The Mahayana Bodhisattva might handle this a bit otherwise from the "Old Testament" tough Buddha of the Pali Sutta ... and, offering a warm embrace, also say that those we hold dear are a source of sorrow and a source of joy, a source of distress and a source of fulfillment ... and that Joy and Peace which holds all sorrow and joy.

Yet he would do a great harm if he did not teach the hurting heart how to be free of life and death ... even amid life and death.

Gassho, J

[Taigu]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

I remember the last time I did sew a very big okesa, it was a time where my marriage was falling apart, I have lost my job, was basically alone and guess what? I was sewing out of this brokenheart. The fabric sometimes was wet with tears and I had to stop because I could not see anymore. This kesa was not for me, It was for my teacher...I did that days on end. That was my practice.

Ghop, you have, as we all do, a lot to unlearn...

Take care


gassho


Taigu

[disastermouse]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Holy shit, Jundo...

I've rarely seen you write like that! Truly, my heart has been opened and my defenses breached. I feel like life has, at least for a little while, entered my awareness with more urgency than it has for a long while.

Thank you for that.

Chet

[chicanobudista]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Rakusu C&W

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sETQvtGStbQ[/video]]

[Jundo]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Rakusu C&W

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sETQvtGStbQ[/video]]

Well, I am not sure where "crying in one's beer" fits into the Precepts ... but nobody tops Hank Sr.

However, these two country songs are personal favorites, and sure fit this thread ... Please give a listen ...

Darryl Worley - sounds like life to me LYRICS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Geg6_-3jPzI[/video]]

Got a call last night from an old friends wife, said, I hate to bother you
But Johnny Ray fell off the wagon, hed been gone all afternoon
Well, I know my buddy, so I drove to Scullys and found him at the bar
Said, Hey Man, whats goin on, He said, I dont know where to start
Sarah's old car startin to fall apart and the washer quit last week
We had to put Mama in the nursing home and the baby's cuttin teeth


I didnt get much work this week and I got bills to pay
I said, I know this aint what you wanna hear but its what Im gonna say
Sounds like life to me, it aint no fantasy
It just a common case of everyday reality
Man, I know its tough but you gotta suck it up
To hear you talk youre caught up in some tragedy
It sounds like life to me

Well, his face turned red and he shook his head
He said, you dont understand, three kids and a wife depend on me
And Im just one man, top it off we just found out that Sarahs two months late
I said, Hey, bartender, set us up a round, we gotta celebrate
Sounds like life to me, aint no destiny
Yeah, the only thing for certain is uncertainty
You gotta hold on tight, just enjoy the ride
Get used to all this unpredictability, sounds like life
Man, I know its tough but you gotta suck it up
To hear you talk youre caught up in some tragedy
Sounds like life to me (sounds like life to me)
Sounds like life

That has a little whiskey in it too. Then there is this one ...

Craig Morgan - This Ain't Nothin LYRICS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v3ujcbEKeE[/video]]

He was standing in the rubble of an old farmhouse outside Birmingham
When some on the scene reporter stuck a camera in the face of that old man
He said "tell the folks please mister, what are you gonna do
Now that this twister has taken all that's there to you"
The old man just smiled and said "boy let me tell you something, this ain't nothing"

He said I lost my daddy, when I was eight years old,
That cave-in at the Kincaid mine left a big old hole,
And I lost my baby brother, my best friend and my left hand
In a no win situation in a place called Vietnam
And last year I watched my loving wife, of fifty years waste away and die
And I held her hand til her heart of gold stopped pumping,
So this ain't nothin'

He said I learned at an early age,
There's things that matter and there's things that don't
So if you're waiting here for me to cry,
I hate to disappoint you boy, but I won't

Then he reached down in the rubble and picked up a photograph
Wiped the dirt off of it with the hand that he still had
He put it to his lips and said man she was something
But this ain't nothin'

He said I lost my daddy, when I was eight years old,
That cave-in at the Kincaid mine left a big old hole,
And I lost my baby brother, my best friend and my left hand
In a no win situation in a place called Vietnam
And last year I watched my loving wife, of fifty years waste away and die
We were holding hands when her heart of gold stopped pumping
So this ain't nothin'

This ain't nothin' time won't erase
And this ain't nothin' money can't replace
He said you sit and watch your loving wife fifty years fighting for her life
Then you hold her hand til her heart of gold stops pumping
Yeah boy that's something,
So this ain't nothin'
Yeah this ain't nothin'

emptiness ... ain't nothin

[chicanobudista]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Well, I am not sure where "crying in one's beer" fits into the Precepts ... but nobody tops Hank Sr.

Yesterday I re-discovered this song and found it melancholic and all that.....but this morning can't think why.

[Grizzly]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

When working through this relative world stuff- who is right and who is wrong?
People having to sit outside the monastery gates for days before even spoken too in older times. Was that necessary? Perhaps it was for the way of training at that temple. In that case it might be seen as a skilful means.
Today though we are different. Interdependence means that we all come from our cultures and modernity just like the Buddha's teachings didn't arrive from nowhere but came out of the interplay of Brahmanism and everything else that made him what he was.
So where do we go from that?
Firstly I think we have to take a pragmatic stand for our relative world lives. Is this useful, is the question? We might not have all the information to answer this but maybe we wont ever have that. Intentions - everyone here is trying to do their best, both 'teachers' and 'students'. That is a presupposition but its a useful one for peace, harmony and finding ways to solve problems.
As David Loy says the absolute deconstructs our sense of self and reconstructs it towards generosity, loving kindness and wisdom. If that is true we should speak without anger and blame as we progress. Skilful means.
We can also use this to be gentle with others when they are angry or reactive.
The proof of the pudding is the solution.
This doesn't contradict allowing everything as it is either of course, but we are involved - we cannot not influence others around us. Given that both action and inactions will have their effect choosing to base our involvement on skilful means and love, generosity and wisdom is the only way I personally see that we can move forwards.
The tradition has its reasons for sewing. We can engage with that or not. Those reasons look very sound to me. However there are other ways for other temperaments. Much of this seems to come from being attached to things- "you dont want to sew my way..OK..fine. These are the reasons behind this traditions sewing"..no more needs to be said..let it pass. On the other hand "I need more than you are willing to give but I'm not getting that..Ok..fine"..its passed.
And here's me interjecting my thoughts into this. I hope my speech comes across as loving/reconciliatory otherwise my words have no use. let it pass I need to go cook dinner.
Rich

[ghop]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Jundo,
First of all, thank you for such a...I can't really find a word
for it...beautiful?...enlightening?...humbling?...post . I
appologize to you for being such a moody shit lately. I don't
know what's wrong with me. I'm so touchy. Not just on this
forum. Maybe it's watching my Dad waste away daily and not
be able to do anything about it. Maybe it's watching my wife
cry as another month passes without a pregancy (we have been
to fertility clinics...no luck). Used to I could hide inside a bottle.
Now, I just sit here and take it. And you know what, sometimes
taking it sucks. I feel like Reality's Whore. Maybe its because I'm
trying to grow and the "old self" just won't let go. Maybe this is my "true
self," "Good Ol' Asshole Greg." I dunno. I think I need to lay
low for awhile. I am practicing. I am trying to keep my humor
about it. But I feel like I've ran up against a "self" I didn't know
existed. I'm not an arrogant person. Yet here I come across as
one. I'm not opinionated. Yet I am here on this forum. I'm not
as caring as I make myself out to be. Yet lately I pounce everyone
who doesn't seem to "live up" to my standard. I want to erase
every post I've made. I want to disappear and start over. I can't.
But please, please don't every start another post addressed to me
with the words, "I'm sorry." That floored me. You are my teacher.
I am nobody really. Just lucky to be here learning, and stupid
enough to speak when I should keep quiet.

Ghop, you have, as we all do, a lot to unlearn...

Agreed. I made comments I shouldn't have made. Teach me! ops:

gassho
Greg

[Jundo]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Jundo,
First of all, thank you for such a...I can't really find a word
for it...beautiful?...enlightening?...humbling?...post . I
appologize to you for being such a moody shit lately. I don't
know what's wrong with me. I'm so touchy. Not just on this
forum. Maybe it's watching my Dad waste away daily and not
be able to do anything about it. Maybe it's watching my wife
cry as another month passes without a pregancy (we have been
to fertility clinics...no luck). Used to I could hide inside a bottle.
Now, I just sit here and take it. And you know what, sometimes
taking it sucks. I feel like Reality's Whore. Maybe its because I'm
trying to grow and the "old self" just won't let go. Maybe this is my "true
self," "Good Ol' Asshole Greg." I dunno. I think I need to lay
low for awhile. I am practicing. I am trying to keep my humor
about it. But I feel like I've ran up against a "self" I didn't know
existed. I'm not an arrogant person. Yet here I come across as
one. I'm not opinionated. Yet I am here on this forum. I'm not
as caring as I make myself out to be. Yet lately I pounce everyone
who doesn't seem to "live up" to my standard. I want to erase
every post I've made. I want to disappear and start over. I can't.
But please, please don't every start another post addressed to me
with the words, "I'm sorry." That floored me. You are my teacher.
I am nobody really. Just lucky to be here learning, and stupid
enough to speak when I should keep quiet.

Ghop, you have, as we all do, a lot to unlearn...

Agreed. I made comments I shouldn't have made. Teach me! ops:

gassho
Greg

This is where the traditional advice is ... JUST SIT!!

Lot of trashy junk in the mental trunk right now ... most not worth the paper its not written on.

JUST SIT and let all those thunder and lightening clouds pass.

[Stephanie]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Lot of trashy junk in the mental trunk right now ... most not worth the paper its not written on.

YES... I post not because I have a new piece of insight to add, but experience that backs up exactly this: Greg, you are suffering due to unquestioned beliefs. Letting go of these beliefs is very hard. Even though they are exactly what is making you suffer, you will kick and scream and fight to be able to hold on to them. I remember when I was mired in some very stuck beliefs. Chet kept pushing me to look at them, question them, drop them. And I fought the whole way... but some part of me... maybe a faint glimmer of bodhicitta... kept me looking, and questioning, and dropping. Have you ever tried Byron Katie's "Work"? Nothing fancy, just a few questions you can ask yourself that are complementary to the "just sitting" recommendation given by Jundo. Just about every line of your last post to this thread deserves a, er, "Working" over!

You shouldn't apologize or be embarrassed for putting your stuff out there. That's the bravery required to crash through these beliefs, to be willing to put them out in the daylight for others to see. They fester in the dim corners of our minds... and evaporate in the glare of the light.

And you know what, sometimes taking it sucks. I feel like Reality's Whore. Maybe its because I'm trying to grow and the "old self" just won't let go. Maybe this is my "true self," "Good Ol' Asshole Greg."

You are throwing a hell of a pity party, and it's not helping squat. This house too, has been touched by death. Stop looking for the magical seed that will make your house different from everyone else's. The First Noble Truth is the crux of the Buddhadharma. What did you expect?

None of what we think will make us happy, will make us happy. We think a relationship, or a child, or to be spared from loss, that these will make us happy... money... spiritual experiences... watching the sun rise and gleam off of an iceberg in the Arctic Circle... seeing a double rainbow... whatever... will make us happy. It never will. This is the central message of the Buddha.

You think you're unhappy because of your circumstances. But you're really unhappy because of how you think. You focus on what's wrong instead of what's right, the child that's not there instead of the wife that is... look at all the Treeleafers who have found joy and gratitude in becoming parents through adoption.

Life really is what you make it... and if it's shit, it's because you're making it shit.

None of us ever likes to hear that... Lord Buddha knows I didn't, and still don't... but it's the truth.

Ajahn Brahm has a book called "Who Ordered This Truckload of Dung?" The title references our typical reaction to the crap situations we find ourselves in. And it also poses a question we usually answer incorrectly. Because the correct answer is: me. I ordered this truckload of dung. I ordered it delivered right to my goddamned doorstep, because I love it. I love to wallow in crap, but don't ever realize that's what I'm doing.

This sort of thinking you have on display here goes hand in hand with the cycle of depression and drinking. We can get ourselves quite worked up with a deliciously tragic and melancholy story. It's this madness that is from whence many great novels and songs have been born (do you have any creative outlets right now?). You can continue to indulge in this thinking, which is like a drug unto itself, or you can pour it down the drain... and pour your precious life energy into something else instead, like sweeping, or sewing, or hugging your wife.

I especially like one of Byron Katie's turnarounds, where you take some declarative statement of belief you have going on and replace the subject of the sentence with "My thinking." As in, turning "I am miserable" around into "My thinking is miserable." Or turning "I'm an asshole" into "My thoughts are assholes." Quit letting these asshole thoughts beat up on you, and sit, sweep, breathe...

[ghop]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

This is where the traditional advice is ... JUST SIT!!

Lot of trashy junk in the mental trunk right now ... most not worth the paper its not written on.

JUST SIT and let all those thunder and lightening clouds pass.

Life really is what you make it... and if it's shit, it's because you're making it shit.

Humbly, I bow...and sit. Thanks guys.

Greg

[disastermouse]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

"How long does it take a man to learn that he does not, cannot want what he 'wants'? You have to be in Hell to see Heaven. Glimpses from the Land of the Dead. Flashes of serene timeless joy, a joy as old as suffering and despair."

-William S. Burroughs.

I often forget that my thoughts aren't true and pain inevitably follows. It takes me some time sometimes (LOL! Word-play!), but the pain eventually reminds me.

Chet