Jundo's latest vid

[AlanLa]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Tis better to give than receive, yes? And tis better to discover there is always more to give, yes? Thus to give more is the best, yes? But how to give more? That is the question, but the act is to Give More!, and finding a way to BE that Giving is the answering Way.

[dumm]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Its scary giving up the conditioning we have spent our live up to now cultivating, and doing it almost inadvertently. May it be that we resist a challenge or difficulty or road block because its makes us vulnerable? It makes sense that it is good to give and give even more, but why is it so hard for some of us to give up the fear and trepidation that really ties us back? I know it has me tethered to the wall to a maddening extent some times. Effort is always followed by fulfillment. Nothing easy really seems worth it.


Gassho,
Dave

[chicanobudista]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Hi Chicanobudista,

I feel sad when people fail to listen...You are pointing at living mountains and they are stuck in the map. You tell them how great it is to walk in the wilderness, and they all they want is a schoolteacher and a dry bench. Even with a teacher by your side, you would struggle. You may go and find out there a teacher and a group of people sewing, you won't escape the very experience I am talking about. The power of conditionning lasts long. You fail to see that part of my teaching is precisely to let you be out, to taste what it is like to not know where to go and go anyway. In a way, you don't want to learn sewing as I teach it.

I feel sad when people fail to listen.


gassho


Taigu

And I think you dont hear me asking for help. But here I still am sitting outside the temple.

[disastermouse]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Sometimes teachers don't want to teach, sometimes students don't want to learn. Odd, isn't it?

Chet

[chicanobudista]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Sometimes teachers don't want to teach, sometimes students don't want to learn. Odd, isn't it?

Chet

:lol: :wink:

[disastermouse]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Nothing easy really seems worth it.


Gassho,
Dave

And it oddly goes the other way too. We shouldn't maybe fool ourselves into thinking that everything difficult is valuable.

Maybe I'm just being contrary. In essence, I sympathize with Taigu even though I'm sure I have and will likely again argue against sound advice.

Chet

[chicanobudista]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Chet--Thanks for the thought. It really made think...and laugh. :mrgreen:

We make judgement on people here based on things we post. We think we know them with a couple of words. So. Rather than continue this back and forth, I am moving to other threads and the let the Jukai process take it's time....step by step. What might have been a misplaced statement for help and suggestions has turned into another new thread where I believe it's heading to a discussion with personalized undertones. There a personal things going on in my life that require my attention and I'll check at the Jukai thread as it moves.I have said what I have to say.

I will only leave with a note resistance from my personal life. I was born and raised in Mexico. My parent brought me to the US w/o knowing much English. I only knew a couple of words. At my school district, we had no bilingual program in Junior HS. It was full immersion. The superintendent decided that I should fall back one year in elementary and survive there. The first months the classes seemed like a blur in which teachers spoke in what sounded like gibberish. It was sink or swim for me. I decided to swim as much as I could, but....thankfully I also had an English teacher that took it upon himself to teach me and another couple of non-English speaking students to learn the language. In the end, I knew it was up to me to learn and progress. Now. I am not sure if learned English well enough...but....yeah....we all been there where resistance was our first obstacle.

Nuff said for tonite......gassho.......

[Grizzly]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Very difficult.
What to give and what to take.
I was reading a thread on another site about 'idiot compassion'- giving to others based on our stuff, not on whats good for them.
I guess first we need to be as equinamous as possible so we make sure we aren't running on our scripts, as much as that is possible anyway.
But even then..how do we know whats good for them, or what they need?
Also how much do we just give freely anyway..maybe everything.....
I see Taigu's point..we have it easy these days in some ways and we value things less because we are inundated with easy ways to get things- provided we have the money usually. Working things out- 'not being spoon-fed' as our teachers at school used to say- and learning by trial and error are great. If we can't do this on simple things then do we have the discipline to really manifest this path in the world?
I also see Chicanobudista as genuinely asking for help. I don't know him well enough to even begin to know what his situation is. The other day I was doing a Tai Chi class and the lady next to me kept saying she was stupid in an increasingly frustrated tone. We were doing a new portion of the form and it was very easy to me to get the footwork right, but for some reason she couldn't do it. If I judge everybody by how I find things I just get to be a pain in the arse. She wanted help- I helped. Simple..no debate or drama.
So I don't know guys....I think I'll just help folks when I see a need which I think I can be of service to, without worrying about all these issues.
Of course, when I am bogged down in my own stuff I might miss others needs, or ignore them.
Its messy being human.
Hope you guys resolve this in friendliness. One last thing that might be useful is to ask "what can I take from this that will progress my path regardless of the other person's motivations?" At least this way it becomes something potentially useful and takes the focus off the other person too-- could be an upaya I guess.
All the best to everyone
Rich

[disastermouse]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

The best advice I should take for myself is this:

Consider criticism before rejecting it. Don't fear rejecting it if it cannot be reconciled with one's honest assessment, but at least give it an honest assessment. This is the advice I most need to take to myself.

For others, perhaps they are more prone to believing the criticism of others and don't give their own inclinations the honest assessments they deserve. It seems to be different for everyone.

There seems to be one path in Zen, but so many different directions about how to travel it. Realize that this has more to do with where we start than where we are going.

IMHO.

Chet

[Stephanie]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

I think this is an excellent post by Taigu, and excellent thread... You can't cook a good soup without stirring the pot every once in a while. People get complacent and lose the sense of urgency in life and practice that was there when their backs were more against the wall spiritually... I remember the talks that John Daido Loori would give when he thought his students were being complacent or lazy or lacking in gratitude. He was not "nice"! But those were some of his best talks... they caught everyone in the room, regarless of for whom they were intended.

I've gotten complacent and numb in my own life and practice and I need really harsh words sometimes to slap me awake! Which is why Chet is such a great friend on the spiritual path :mrgreen: If someone could get me on the cushion and in full-blown appreciation of my life, alert, focused, disciplined, by beating me up, I would take the beating! Sometimes a sharp word, like a sharp slap, can get the blood flowing!

Feel free to drag me through the coals any time... I need it... :shock: :? :mrgreen:

[chicanobudista]

Re: Jundo's latest vid



LA-LA-LA-LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.


:mrgreen:

[Shohei]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

... they caught everyone in the room, regarless of for whom they were intended.

Yes!
This post is for 1 person and its for every single one of us, no point in trying to figure who its for...Its for YOU!/ME/(all of us of course!)
A good rule of thumb for any lesson being put out there...just figure its directed at you and take a step back and open your eyes and ears

Gassho
Shohei

[Taylor]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Occasionally I will find myself stuck between the lack of an urge to do something and the (no)soul wracking guilt that I have not yet done anything. Middle way. Most of the hands on places around here require a 12 month commitment, they want people they can consistently count on. I do my green power when I can, but I could definitely do more.

Really trying to get the "Buddhist Club" at college amped up and ready for charitable work! We'll see how that goes (the former president is leaving for Oxford, so they have been placed in my incapable hands for leadership of some sort :mrgreen: ) Interfaith cooperation with bigger clubs and the like.

But anyways I ramble, it is inspiring to have such a message brought up. And I, as much as anyone else if not more, need my ass dragged in the coals for a nice scorching from time to time.

Gassho
Taylor

[Jundo]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

And I think you dont hear me asking for help. But here I still am sitting outside the temple.

At any Zen monastery in Asia, they will leave the person waiting to enter outside the door, ignored ... for hours, better for days, before his or her presence is even acknowledged.

Before one can enter ... even if it is not literally 'out in the snow' (though sometimes so) ... one is left sitting Zazen morning to night for about a week in "Tangaryo" ... left in the same clothes, without a bath, their few belongings in a small bag leaning against the wall ...

..

The sewing of a Rakusu is not like studying for a high school diploma., not even like struggling as a child to learn a new language. It is a process in which the must be some hardship and resistance precisely in order to learn the unlearnable lesson ...

... that there is nothing to attain, nothing to achieve, nothing to master, nothing to resist.

Mistakes and dead ends are part of the road ... all to imbue one with the understanding that life has no "mistakes", no dead ends ... and that is so EVEN for the dead ends and mistakes.

It is not a skill in sewing that you master, but a skill in finding the wholeness of life's tapestry.

In fact, things may be too easy, too convenient. The hurdles may be too low. If anyone would be led more by the hand, shown how to avoid the mistakes and traps and blood from pricked fingers ... a disservice would be done.

Life is often filled with things we want to "achieve" "get done" "accomplish" "get finished with", get a diploma or reward for. Not this. This is not that.

It may be time to raise the bar a bit ... make folks work for it a bit more ... for there is nothing to achieve.

Gassho, J

[Dosho]

Re: Jundo's latest vid

Sometimes a sharp word, like a sharp slap, can get the blood flowing!

Agreed, but sometimes a kind word can help just as much, especially for those who have already been beaten up either physically or mentally.