Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

[disastermouse]

Hey all,

We're told over and over and over - 'Don't judge your practice!' - and yet, over and over and over, we do anyway. Getting back into this practice the last couple of years, I've completely abandoned all judgement of my practice - 'good', 'bad' - it's not really your business - let it be.

Experiment with it. Try it for a week. Actively restrain yourself from judging your practice and see how it changes things.

This is merely a suggestion....but I think it's a good one.

Chet

[Jundo]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Hey all,

We're told over and over and over - 'Don't judge your practice!' - and yet, over and over and over, we do anyway. Getting back into this practice the last couple of years, I've completely abandoned all judgement of my practice - 'good', 'bad' - it's not really your business - let it be.

Experiment with it. Try it for a week. Actively restrain yourself from judging your practice and see how it changes things.

This is merely a suggestion....but I think it's a good one.

Chet

And at the same time ... we keep pushing ahead with sincerity. The Way is not complacency or giving up. We "Just Sit" with hands in the Mudra, which is not just sitting down twiddling our thumbs. Much like an energetic run through the mountains without need to arrive, each step by step the total arrival ... yet on and on forward with body-mind.

This is important to realize.

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=14695

[disastermouse]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Hey all,

We're told over and over and over - 'Don't judge your practice!' - and yet, over and over and over, we do anyway. Getting back into this practice the last couple of years, I've completely abandoned all judgement of my practice - 'good', 'bad' - it's not really your business - let it be.

Experiment with it. Try it for a week. Actively restrain yourself from judging your practice and see how it changes things.

This is merely a suggestion....but I think it's a good one.

Chet

And at the same time ... we keep pushing ahead with sincerity. The Way is not complacency or giving up. We "Just Sit" with hands in the Mudra, which is not just sitting down twiddling our thumbs. Much like an energetic run through the mountains without need to arrive, each step by step the total arrival ... yet on and on forward with body-mind.

This is important to realize.

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=14695

I'm talking more about the post-game analysis, Jundo. Yes, sincere effort is required.

Chet

[disastermouse]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Jundo,

Did you think I meant don't judge when you don't practice? I guess all I meant was that sometimes when I talk to people, they say things like, 'My zazen was no good today, my mind never settled down, I was disturbed, I couldn't focus, (etc)'. My response is always, 'Yeah, welcome to the human mind..' I guess what I'm saying is 'Don't judge the content of your practice.' I would think that sincere effort would be implied - why sit if you're sitting without sincere effort? The thing is, even with sincere effort, people think that they didn't get the 'right' results when they sit.

People will say, "My mind wanders and five minutes later, I realize I've gone on this crazy ride." Well yeah, but it was the noticing and bringing it back to just this that is the practice. This might get 'better' after more practice, but I don't think that's really the point. The point is, you noticed that you were hooked into a wild ride and then you unhooked. Yeah, it took five minutes, but it didn't take ten. I don't see how judging a zazen period filled with unsettled thoughts as 'bad' does very much but reinforce this idea of zazen practice as the attempt to become the accomplished meditator.

Chet

[Shugen]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

People will say, "My mind wanders and five minutes later, I realize I've gone on this crazy ride." Well yeah, but it was the noticing and bringing it back to just this that is the practice. This might get 'better' after more practice, but I don't think that's really the point. The point is, you noticed that you were hooked into a wild ride and then you unhooked. Yeah, it took five minutes, but it didn't take ten. I don't see how judging a zazen period filled with unsettled thoughts as 'bad' does very much but reinforce this idea of zazen practice as the attempt to become the accomplished meditator.

Chet

Very nice description of one my bad habits.

Thank you Chet.

Ron

[Shohei]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Gassho

Shohei

[Jundo]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Jundo,

Did you think I meant don't judge when you don't practice? I guess all I meant was that sometimes when I talk to people, they say things like, 'My zazen was no good today, my mind never settled down, I was disturbed, I couldn't focus, (etc)'. My response is always, 'Yeah, welcome to the human mind..' I guess what I'm saying is 'Don't judge the content of your practice.' I would think that sincere effort would be implied - why sit if you're sitting without sincere effort? The thing is, even with sincere effort, people think that they didn't get the 'right' results when they sit.

I'm fully with you Chet, well said. Yeah baby!

I just drop in my caution, not for you, but for beginners who might hear "don't judge your practice" and think it is a license to just sit there playing and wallowing in all the mental crap, or to sit there like a lump on a dead log. They may hear "goalless" and conclude "pointless, time killing sitting is the point". They should realize that "not judging" and dropping "right and wrong" does not mean there is not a right and wrong way to sit! 8) :shock:

Barry Magid (an heir to Joko Beck ... He is also a clinical psychologist, which comes through in some of his lingo sometimes.) has a good article pretty much up the same alley with your comment, Chet.

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p ... more-15176

Gassho, J

[Dosho]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Very nice description of one my bad habits.

Thank you Chet.

Ron

Ditto...but I'll just say "habits" and try not to call it "bad". But I usually think of it as bad anyway. Good post!

Gassho,
Dosho

[disastermouse]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Very nice description of one my bad habits.

Thank you Chet.

Ron

Ditto...but I'll just say "habits" and try not to call it "bad". But I usually think of it as bad anyway. Good post!

Gassho,
Dosho

Great! But will you try the experiment? One week of practice wthout judgement.

Chet

[ghop]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Barry Magid (an heir to Joko Beck ... He is also a clinical psychologist, which comes through in some of his lingo sometimes.) has a good article pretty much up the same alley with your comment, Chet.

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p ... more-15176

Wow! Thanks Jundo. This is a cool article.

Not to jump in but... I've been going at it pretty regularly since I got laid off and
for the past week or so it's been wonderful. Then out of nowhere...BAM! Since
yesterday it's like I'm sitting with my head in that blender that you talked about
on your blog. No explanation. Haven't been eating bad or doing anything any different.
I'm trying to have peace with the fact that my peace got took away. But I like what
the article says, that sitting is like a mirror. You don't have to do anything, it just
automatically shows you what's going on in your field of experience...not always a
pretty sight! :wink:

gassho
ghop

[Dosho]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Very nice description of one my bad habits.

Thank you Chet.

Ron

Ditto...but I'll just say "habits" and try not to call it "bad". But I usually think of it as bad anyway. Good post!

Gassho,
Dosho

Great! But will you try the experiment? One week of practice wthout judgement.

Chet

Yes, I will try (Master Yoda is whispering something in my ear about "do or do not")...so, I will do.



Gassho,
Dosho

[AlanLa]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Yes, I have been trying to not judge my zazen for a while now. I agree with the thought behind this, but from my experience it's really hard, because our minds have been conditioned to judge. So, i would temper this a bit by saying don't invest anything in those inevitable judgments of your practice once they happen. Discarding those judgements is just another part of the process/practice.

[disastermouse]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Ghop: Your peace didn't go anywhere - just like the blue sky is still there above the clouds - and it even IS the clouds. If your peace requires the clear sky, it's just another conditioned situational peace that can and will come and go like all conditioned things. There's even peace in 'not-peace' - the basic ground of Buddha is not conditioned.

IMHO.

Chet

[disastermouse]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Yes, I have been trying to not judge my zazen for a while now. I agree with the thought behind this, but from my experience it's really hard, because our minds have been conditioned to judge. So, i would temper this a bit by saying don't invest anything in those inevitable judgments of your practice once they happen. Discarding those judgements is just another part of the process/practice.

Yeah, it is hard..until it isn't anymore. I'm sure it's different for everyone - but I was crushed by mt expectations regarding the practice and the sheer magnitude of the stupidity of my actions make it a lasting lesson.

Chet

[ghop]

Re: Experiment: Don't judge your practice (really!)

Ghop: Your peace didn't go anywhere - just like the blue sky is still there above the clouds - and it even IS the clouds. If your peace requires the clear sky, it's just another conditioned situational peace that can and will come and go like all conditioned things. There's even peace in 'not-peace' - the basic ground of Buddha is not conditioned.

Thanks Chet. It's all just so hard to grasp because the mind that I'm trying to grasp it with doens't even exist. It definitely feels like I'm "doing it right" when things flow peacefully along, and "doing it wrong" when my mind is nothing but gravel. It's like I keep wanting to look through a window and then I am told that I am the window, but I don't feel like the window, I feel like I'm standing inside the room looking out. Does that make sense? When the mind starts churning again after a period of peace I start doubting "objectless" sitting and I want to start counting or following my breath, thinking I will find the desired results there since I lost them here. But I can tell a difference between sitting now compared to even four months ago when I started. I can't exactly put my finger on it, but something is different...not better just more clear, more open. Anyway, thanks!

gassho
ghop