Kinhin Question

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  • Sloppy_Zen
    Member
    • Dec 2009
    • 82

    Kinhin Question

    Hello Fellow Leafers;

    When engaged in walking meditation, are there any guidelines as to how to handle turning - the space I walk in is somewhat confined (about a 10 foot (3 metre) space). When I "hit the wall", do I simply do a 180 (like aikido style)?

    Thanks for your thoughts,
    -Jim
    Skype: jim.kearse
    ring me, I might be at home!
  • chicanobudista
    Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 864

    #2
    Re: Kinhin Question

    Originally posted by Sloppy_Zen
    Hello Fellow Leafers;

    When engaged in walking meditation, are there any guidelines as to how to handle turning - the space I walk in is somewhat confined (about a 10 foot (3 metre) space). When I "hit the wall", do I simply do a 180 (like aikido style)?

    Thanks for your thoughts,
    -Jim
    Are you in a small room or ....?

    There is no distance. No start and finish. And vice versa. :P But. My humble suggestion is if it's a very small room. Just do best with the space you have and don't worry about degrees or turns. Just walk.

    Of course, how it's done in a monastery maybe something else. :wink:
    paz,
    Erik


    Flor de Nopal Sangha

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 39459

      #3
      Re: Kinhin Question

      Originally posted by chicanobudista
      Originally posted by Sloppy_Zen
      Hello Fellow Leafers;

      When engaged in walking meditation, are there any guidelines as to how to handle turning - the space I walk in is somewhat confined (about a 10 foot (3 metre) space). When I "hit the wall", do I simply do a 180 (like aikido style)?

      Thanks for your thoughts,
      -Jim
      Are you in a small room or ....?

      There is no distance. No start and finish. And vice versa. :P But. My humble suggestion is if it's a very small room. Just do best with the space you have and don't worry about degrees or turns. Just walk.

      Of course, how it's done in a monastery maybe something else. :wink:
      Yes, no long no short ... no place to turn.

      You can watch me on some of the Saturday sittings. I tend to turn 90 degrees all at once, a bit like a soldier in the Japanese way.

      http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=13784

      But there is no right or wrong way to turn, really. I would say, just turn with sincerity, vigor, equanimity and non-thinking, and the turn is complete before you even move!

      Having visited 1000 Zen groups in Japan and the West, I will tell you that there are as many variations as people. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

      Gassho, Jundo
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • chicanobudista
        Member
        • Mar 2008
        • 864

        #4
        Re: Kinhin Question

        Originally posted by Jundo
        Having visited 1000 Zen groups in Japan and the West, I will tell you that there are as many variations as people. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
        A year or two ago, I was bit surprised to see Rinzai walking meditation turn into...a quick brisk walking. :shock:

        And here are some examples of Buddhist Walking Meditation:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IFvablc6EI[/video]]
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdO1vZJgUu0[/video]] (Walking Meditation with Thich Nhat Hanh)
        http://www.howcast.com/videos/2433-How- ... Meditation
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO8N75uJiCA[/video]] :mrgreen:
        paz,
        Erik


        Flor de Nopal Sangha

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 39459

          #5
          Re: Kinhin Question

          Originally posted by chicanobudista
          Originally posted by Jundo
          Having visited 1000 Zen groups in Japan and the West, I will tell you that there are as many variations as people. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
          A year or two ago, I was bit surprised to see Rinzai walking meditation turn into...a quick brisk walking. :shock:

          And here are some examples of Buddhist Walking Meditation:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IFvablc6EI[/video]]
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdO1vZJgUu0[/video]] (Walking Meditation with Thich Nhat Hanh)
          http://www.howcast.com/videos/2433-How- ... Meditation
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO8N75uJiCA[/video]] :mrgreen:
          The only thing I would say, looking at those different flavors of walking meditation by different Buddhist teachers from various traditions, is that the practice of Kinhin in the Soto way is moving Shikantaza ... movement as stillness, walking ahead yet no place to reach, constant total arriving with each step, neither fast nor slow whatever the speed, a single inch containing endless lightyears ...

          Gassho, J
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • scott
            Member
            • Oct 2009
            • 138

            #6
            Re: Kinhin Question

            The only thing I haven't seen mentioned is turning clockwise. I think that's universally true, isn't it? I'm far from having visited thousands of centers. :-)

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 39459

              #7
              Re: Kinhin Question

              Originally posted by scott
              The only thing I haven't seen mentioned is turning clockwise. I think that's universally true, isn't it? I'm far from having visited thousands of centers. :-)
              Hi Scott,

              Well, I have found that it depends on the room. I have been with groups where people rise from their Zafu, turn to face the room and turn left (counter-clockwise).

              Also, in a large Sodo monk's hall (as in the attached drawing), it gets rather compicated, and would depend which side of the room you are sitting on, and whether you are in the middle seats or near the wall ... some turn left, some right.



              When in Rome, turn as the Romans do.

              Gassho, J
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • scott
                Member
                • Oct 2009
                • 138

                #8
                Re: Kinhin Question

                Originally posted by Jundo
                Aside: I'm in post-vacation work mode, which always gets me a little weird, and when I see this image I think there must be a hilarious caption you could put on it .

                Thanks as always ... Scott

                Comment

                • chicanobudista
                  Member
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 864

                  #9
                  Re: Kinhin Question

                  This is from Bodhi Manda Zen Center (Rinzai):

                  Bodhidharma's Shoe
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITnmOJbR5uU[/video]]

                  see 10:06 & 11:02
                  paz,
                  Erik


                  Flor de Nopal Sangha

                  Comment

                  • chicanobudista
                    Member
                    • Mar 2008
                    • 864

                    #10
                    Re: Kinhin Question

                    Originally posted by Jundo


                    Here are three good videos from 1959 from Sojiji:

                    http://monkeymindonline.blogspot.com/20 ... dhist.html

                    Life in a Japanese Soto Zen Buddhist Monastery

                    I don't know the origins of this visit to Sojiji, one of the two major training temples of Japanese Soto Zen Buddhism, but the visuals, if not the commentary (which is astonishingly bad), are wonderful. The Youtube description says it was filmed in 1959. I'm guessing for BBC or somesuch...
                    See Video 1 @ 1:16 for kinhin monastic style.
                    paz,
                    Erik


                    Flor de Nopal Sangha

                    Comment

                    • Sloppy_Zen
                      Member
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 82

                      #11
                      Re: Kinhin Question

                      Thank you all for those videos - will keep me busy for awhile!

                      -Jim
                      Skype: jim.kearse
                      ring me, I might be at home!

                      Comment

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