Dukkha and Shikantaza

[Eika]

Re: Dukkha and Shikantaza

But most Buddhists never move beyond their own suffering. Some that do begin to help other individuals suffering.

Most? Sorry, but that's too broad for me to agree with. I agree that the call for acceptance can confuse people and lead them to disengage, but my understanding is that that is not what is advocated by Zen. Also, a call for a finite period of disengagement before moving back into the world to do good things is not the same as a lifelong call for disengagement. Just a period of disengagement to get one's sh*^ together.

But how many zen Buddhists lead a movement of social reform or political action (or try for a political office.) Achievement has almost become anathema to Buddhists.

Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dalai Lama, the monks in Burma, the Buddhist Peace Fellowship, the Prison Dharma Network, the Zen Peacemakers and their Zen Houses . . . and many more that I'm sure I'm ignorant of.

Of course, my words mean very little. If you see Zen and Buddhism as being apathetic then there is little I can do to change your mind. Who am I to do that? And Zen (even though there really is no Zen separate from the myriad folks who practice it) has to stand on its merits and failings. I'm simply offering my two cents. We don't have to agree on this (or anything else) to be friends . . .

Peace,
Bill

PS--I recognize that yours' is a legitimate criticism of some lineages, and that many others see this problem with Zen. You may be right.

[Jundo]

Re: Dukkha and Shikantaza

Hi All,

I want to emphasize this as much as something can be emphasized ... it is a Koan ...

Please do me the kindness of reading this (or rereading ... I keep digging it up) from a couple of years ago (in response to a tragedy in the news almost now forgotten ... in this case, a school shooting) ... In regard to what I wrote there, however, it is important to know that each of these several views on life, some seemingly contradictory, are held in Zazen AS ONE!

We must lose our "self" as the world in this way ... and find our self in this way ... and I am not merely talking about some intellectual understanding. The "self" must be lost and found, simultaneously, in these ways of experiencing ... and being ... life and the world (not two).

It is a Koan ... a radical revolution (not just of the world) but of how we experience us and the world (which is just the same thing really). Here is what I wrote ...

Wednesday April 18, 2007
(The following was written and spoken by me in response to the many sad stories currently in the news. Please pardon me for being dour and formal ... as it all breaks my heart) .

Here are three ways to view tragedy in this world:

First, this world can appear ugly - and is ugly - so many times. War and violence, poverty, hunger, disease and painful death ... If I had the power, if I were king, there's so much I would change. Abused children, lonely elders, the fearful and forsaken would be abused, lonely, fearful and forsaken no more.

Of course, I do not have such power, I am not king. I can write a check, perhaps, or volunteer hours ... yet the problems remain. Many will never go away, appear the inevitable state of things, and it sometimes drives me toward frustration and despair. When viewed by human eyes, both nature and human society are so cruel.

But, second, we can abandon all human judgments:

For, when we drop all thought of "good" and "bad" , "right" , "wrong" , "just" and "unjust" , we experience a world that just is-what-it-is. It goes-the-way-it-goes, even if that way is not the way we personally might desire. Letting aside both "cruel" and "gentle" , "ugly" and "kind" , we no longer resist, do not judge, and embrace it all ... even the most terrible.

By such perspective, sometimes there is war in the world, sometimes there is peace. Sometimes there is health, sometimes disease. Same for all the rest. In Zen Buddhism, we may embrace the world as-it-is, with all its seeming imperfections. The world is just the world. We are free of disappointment at a world, at its people or a society failing to meet our ideals and expectations. In this stance, our minds are still, our hearts tranquil, our attitude soft and yielding. We merely observe it all, accept it all ... war, peace or whatever comes.

And dropping all divisions, we see this too: There is no separate person to be killed, no separate person to do the killing. There's nothing taken away and nothing to lose, as nothing is ever lacking. Without thought of birth and death, what birth and what death? It is like the water of a sea that is always wet, whole and complete, while waves go up and down. We can experience the world in that way too. More than a sad resignation to life (do not think that Zen practice is mere resignation), it is the subtle taste of no loss no gain.

Yet. should we simply stop there? In that self-satisfied tranquility, ignoring the daily pain of others, are we not left uncaring, blind, apathetic, cold-hearted?

Is there, perhaps, a third way to be? (I know there is)

For ours can be a path of acceptance sans acceptance - precisely blending both views. It is much the same in the case of a man or woman who, facing an illness, perhaps some cancer, accepts the condition fully - yet fights the good fight for a cure. We need not feel anger within at the natural state which is the disease, we can accept within that all life is impermanent and that death and sickness are just the reality ... but still we might search for the healing medicine, struggling without for health and life. We can know that within and without are not two.

War, fire, flood, death and disease, humanity and nature's most horrible turns can all be observed dispassionately and from an unshakable inner peace, fully accepted ... all while we choose to resist what we can, to extend comfort and compassion as we can, to make the world better when and where we can.

Doog wrote ...

Would Hitler control the world? Would we ever find cures for disease? .....For instance, many zen practitioners are involved in social action, peacemaking, environmental activism -- basically trying to change the world as it is rather than accept it as it is.

This is a contradiction.

It is a contradiction, but in our Zen way ... no contradiction at all, all contradictions resolved! We can embrace Hitler or the disease, we can drop all resistance to each ... they are what they are (they are just us too, when seen as our own reflection) ... yet not embrace them and strongly resist. We can accept even while not accepting, drop all resistance even as we resist (yes, it is a kind of schizophrenic viewpoint ... but a very healthy kind of schizophrenia :? :cry: )

Aren't 'dissatisfaction', 'disappointment', 'unease' and 'frustration' necessary for social change?

I see nothing wrong with experiencing appropriate dissatisfaction' 'disappointment' and 'frustration', sadness, when one encounters some tragedy in life ... whether in one's own life, or in the newspaper to our fellow beings. We seek not to fall into excesses of such emotions, not to become prisoners of the emotions ... but there is nothing wrong with feeling such emotions when called for.

It is the natural human condition to feel such things sometimes, and this practice (at least in the Zen traditions of Buddhism) is not about becoming some robot stripped of all human emotion.

But what makes our Zen practice very special is that we can experience 'dissatisfaction' without the least 'dissatisfaction', 'disappointment' hand-in-hand with 'contentment', 'unease' without 'unease', and 'frustration' free of any & all frustration ... sadness while knowing a Peace beyond happiness/sadness too ... ALL AT ONCE! :cry: :? :|

Doog wrote ...

I'm still having difficulty reconciling the notion that we can accept the world as it is, yet still be able to fight (and sometimes it is a fight) for the world we want to actualize.

If we accept the weeds in our garden, why would we pull them?

Please trust me ... we can be one with the weeds (they are what they are, they are just us) ... yet pull them . (You should see the weeds in Treeleaf's garden! :shock: )

Now that being said ... Chet offered an important reminder of something ...

I think that here in America, we think of Buddhism as a decidedly 'progressive' religion, but this is not entirely the case..

There is nothing about Zen Practice, or Buddhism, that means that all people have to suddenly be turned into "Engaged Buddhists" ... let alone social revolutionaries. A lot of Buddhists in the West tend to be people of "progressive" and rather lefty social views (I am one ... I do not hide that, and that is how I interpret many of the Precepts for my own life), so they think that all Buddhists need to be that way to be "good Buddhists".

Far from it!

In many countries, "Buddhism" is a very conservative tradition, and I have many good Buddhist friends whose political views are decidedly of a conservative bent. So long they each sincerely believes that they are acting in accord with the Precepts, they are sincere and good Buddhists. The Precepts do not tell us whom to vote for, or exactly how to feel about all social issues. In Asia and in the West, there are conservative Buddhists, liberal Buddhists and radical Buddhists. Since the Precepts fundamentally guide us to seek to avoid harm, and to act in ways healthful and helpful to ourselves and others (not two, by the way), different folks will see the best course differently. In America, I have Democrat Buddhist friends, Green Buddhist Friends, apolitical Buddhist friends and (although admittedly a much smaller number) Republican Buddhist friends, each of whom is acting from what they believe to be the best course for society (there are some things that, I think, do not go with the Precepts in any way ... no "Nazi Buddhists" or "KKK Buddhists" for example ... , but, short of that, Buddhism can fit many sincere political and social beliefs for how to make a good world.) .

Anyway, I believe so.

Gassho, Jundo

PS - Oh, and let me not forget Dave's observation ...

I really am enjoying the posts. Thank you Jundo for the post about suffering. I recently have found that since I have started doing zazen on a daily basis there seems to be my "self" screaming at me. Maybe its languishing, but sometimes it can be a pit paralyzing when one listens to the teachings and really is confronted by the actual putting them into use. It is very shocking how much resistance one runs up against in your own mind.

Yes, this practice involves taming the self. Like the bull in the famous pictures. The bullish self often puts up some very passionate and powerful resistance to being wrestled with ...

[Jundo]

Re: Dukkha and Shikantaza

Oh, I must agree with Bill.

doogie wrote:But how many zen Buddhists lead a movement of social reform or political action (or try for a political office.) Achievement has almost become anathema to Buddhists.

Thich Nhat Hanh, the Dalai Lama, the monks in Burma, the Buddhist Peace Fellowship, the Prison Dharma Network, the Zen Peacemakers and their Zen Houses . . . and many more that I'm sure I'm ignorant of.

Our practice can lead us to complacency on our Lotus Leaf, contemplating our navel ... or to go out and lead a march, a revolution, or to researching a cure for cancer ...

It is up to us, and I happen to feel that it better practice when coupled with action & compassion than complacency and navel gazing.

[doogie]

Re: Dukkha and Shikantaza

Deep bow.

Thank you.

[Jundo]

Re: Dukkha and Shikantaza

Let me add add ... that coupling "action" with "stillness" does not mean we all have to go out and lead a revolution or win the Noble Prize ...

One can practice "stillness in action" by taking care of children or a sick relative, helping someone in our local community with some simple volunteer activities, teaching a class of young minds, fixing a single broken window, just doing our regular job if it is helpful to others.

It is not always a matter of BIG and SMALL, and all our volitional actions have effects. Each makes a tremendous difference in some way. Even small can be big.

Gassho, J

[disastermouse]

Re: Dukkha and Shikantaza

It is not always a matter of BIG and SMALL, and all our volitional actions have effects. Each makes a tremendous difference in some way. Even small can be big.

Gassho, J

Reminded me of this:

Think not lightly of evil, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the fool, gathering it little by little, fills himself with evil.
Think not lightly of good, saying, "It will not come to me." Drop by drop is the water pot filled. Likewise, the wise man, gathering it little by little, fills himself with good. -- Buddha

[will]

Re: Dukkha and Shikantaza

In Zen we look deep. It is not an intellectual experience.

Zazen is action. Not action in the "TAKE ACTION!!" sense, but in the "do" sense. Dogen said: "This is a practice for those who learn by doing things."

Gassho

[will]

Re: Dukkha and Shikantaza

I was looking for a quote from Sueng Shan but can't find it. Here's something from Suzuki Roshi:

Big mind is something big, in contrast to the small mind. So it is not real big mind. No-mind is actually the great mind. Same thing will be true for our Tassajara institute or Zen Center. Why we have Zen Center is to develop our big mind—so that we can develop our big mind we have Zen Center. So that we can continue to practice our way and develop our way, we have Zen Center. But if you have the idea of Zen Center too much as an organization—institute, that is still [laughs] something wrong with it. This point should be, at the same time, carefully examined. We should know what we are doing here or in the city zendo.

....

Purpose of Buddhism is not to establish Buddha's teaching, Buddha's groups, but to help people. And to help people going their own way. Just because they are not following their own way. So Buddha gives them some warning: "If you do not follow the right path, you will be lost." That is only reason why Buddha left his teaching for human being. So he doesn’t want to pick up anything. Or there is no need to pick up anything if all sentient beings follow right path. But most people or some Buddhist will make big mistake. They try to establish something for sake of Buddhism in its small, narrow sense. Then that is big mistake

http://www.cuke.com/Cucumber%20Project/ ... cture.html

We should also be careful, in a practice sense, about criticizing other people or speculate too much. That's part of the acceptance.

It's not about "me" or "you"; it's about "practice". Too much criticism and speculation can leave us with our head in the clouds, missing the first step.

Yeah. But...

W