Motivation behind Zazen

[Erinis]

Hello everyone,
I would like to ask what is your motivation in practicing Zazen.
I've been reading one article on Zen, where there was mentioned certain thing that doesn't make me sense below.

Why then do we sit zazen? The simplest answer is that there is no why. There are a number of koans that teach us that from a Zen perspective, to ask why is to miss the point entirely. We practice because we practice. Dogen Zenji, whom I will speak of later in these talks, says that we practice because we are already enlightened. It is the expression of our enlightened nature.

I think it's impossible to sit Zazen for no reason, of course when we sit we sit with non-attainment attitude, but motivation itself is conditioned, is it not? therefore how can we sit without why?
In regard to Zen there where also a statement, that we are always beginners, if so, there can't be any motivation right, I am a bit stuck here

I am practicing Zazen to become fearless, although I have nearly defeated the social anxiety, there are other things, that cause me anxiety, the ordinary day-to-day problems that
everyone face from time to time, or stress. The motivation I think has high importance in our practice

Gassho,
Sit Today

[Kaitan]

Hi Erinis is,

It does sound like koan. I would say that because it's simple and at the same time an embodied philosophy. I also like it because it doesn't push me to do something in particular, yet it's there to hear and support me.

Gassho

Stlah

Bernal

[Jundo]

Personally, I have been sitting for 35 years or so because it is the very opposite of, and medicine for, our constant need to do, get, weigh, rate, repair, fix, runaway from or towards, change, regret, worry and wonder about.

Rather, one sits in the total completion and trust that there is not more to do but sit, nothing lacking, that Zazen is beyond measure yet always "5 Stars," that all is just as it is, that we flow and allow what was and what will be (even as we get back to fixing what can be fixed AFTER Zazen), that all questions are asked and answered just by sitting.

How often do you "non-do" something so whole and satisfying?

It is also an excellent medicine for "anxiety," social or otherwise, because anxiety is typically a worry about what might happen, what is lacking about ourself, what other people will think and how they will rate us, what disaster awaits. In Zazen, there is nothing lacking, and all that will happen will happen.

Furthermore, the hard borders between our little "self" and all the rest of life, including the scary things, softens or fully drops away ... and what remains is wholeness and nothing to fear.

Zazen is not a matter of quantity, length of time, or attaining a special feeling or relaxation or otherwise. Zazen is sitting in total completion, beyond measure and time. That is the greatest existential relaxation. (It is a simple message, but people ignore it and keep looking for payoffs and special experiences nonetheless.)

That is why I sit, and the Koan of Sitting asked and answered.

Gassho, Jundo

Stlah

[Bion]

Motivation behind Zazen

I sit because I know it is the way delusion is cut, how the buddha is revealed and how karma generation ceases. Me, the product of all conditions, is continuously pushed and pulled by all things, continuously dissecting everything with a judgmental mind, so that I can function within the karmic soup and stay as free of suffering as I can and sometimes I do just fine and other times I fail miserably. On the cushion, however, there is no trying, just doing, and there is no failing or succeeding, just sitting, so if I sat in order to at some point accomplish something, I’d not be fully sitting, but rather I’d be expecting some end result. But the second I cross my legs and exhale with my hands in the cosmic mudra, I fully know that the eyes are horizontal and the nose is vertical and it’s sufficient.

I apologize for running long. I tried to squeeze that fourth sentence in there somehow, but I couldn’t [emoji28]

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Jundo]

I sit because I know it is the way delusion is cut, how the buddha is revealed and how karma generation ceases. Me, the product of all conditions, is continuously pushed and pulled by all things, continuously dissecting everything with a judgmental mind, so that I can function within the karmic soup and stay as free of suffering as I can and sometimes I do just fine and other times I fail miserably. On the cushion, however, there is no trying, just doing, and there is no failing or succeeding, just sitting, so if I sat in order to at some point accomplish something, I’d not be fully sitting, but rather I’d be expecting some end result. But the second I cross my legs and exhale with my hands in the cosmic mudra, I fully know that the eyes are horizontal and the nose is vertical and it’s sufficient.

[emoji1374] Sat Today

Dig it.

[Guest]

When I first started learning to meditate (I did Raja Yoga among other things for decades before moving into zazen), I used to think it would eventually learn to focus and control the mind, perhaps even stop thoughts, and that this would bring me clarity, calmness, release from anxiety, perhaps even a degree of enlightenment.

At some point in my mid 30's I accepted that most of these things were not exactly as advertised, and after years of spiritual rigour I had not managed to enlighten myself (to Quote Leonard Cohen). At this point zazen started to make more sense. Not aiming to get something, since the things I wanted were either beyond my power to get or to ill defined for me to even know them if I saw them, I had no idea what enlightenment even looks like so I've had to give up that idea.

So rather than trying to get something, sitting practice became a case of 'being' rather than 'doing', a break from my minds constant need to fix things and otherwise interfere; just being where I am, as I am, in whatever situation, without trying to get anything out of it. I've come to like the not-doing of zazen, it gives me a break from myself, and even though I don't acquire anything from sitting, except perhaps patience, I somehow feel better in the morning having done so.

Sattday

Dan

[Hoseki]

Hello everyone,
I would like to ask what is your motivation in practicing Zazen.
I've been reading one article on Zen, where there was mentioned certain thing that doesn't make me sense below.



I think it's impossible to sit Zazen for no reason, of course when we sit we sit with non-attainment attitude, but motivation itself is conditioned, is it not? therefore how can we sit without why?
In regard to Zen there where also a statement, that we are always beginners, if so, there can't be any motivation right, I am a bit stuck here

I am practicing Zazen to become fearless, although I have nearly defeated the social anxiety, there are other things, that cause me anxiety, the ordinary day-to-day problems that
everyone face from time to time, or stress. The motivation I think has high importance in our practice

Gassho,
Sit Today

Hi Erinis,

I don't think I have any to say thats fundamentally different than anyone else here but I might describe it differently. So here goes...

I think motivation is needed to walk the path of a bodhisattva and if you read any Dogen he encourages you to develop that motivation. But when it comes to sitting Zazen you only need to sit. You just sit, so it’s both the means to an end (sitting) and the end itself (sitting.) So you do need to be motivated to stay or at least return to open awareness. Without motivation if the idea of getting something to eat pops up what’s stopping you from getting a sandwich? Why return to open awareness? So one could say (at least from my perspective as a student) we are motivated to stay in open awareness. But when one is in open awarness they aren't adding commentary like this is great, or I'm really struggling. Those things might occur but we simply going back to open awarness without continuing the thought thread.

So motivation to walk the path is (hopefully) ongoing but actually walking the path can be a little rockier. Sometimes we lose our tempers or act rashly etc … But we try to pick ourselves up again because even failing can move us into the right direction. Think of it like falling forward. You’re still closer to the goal than if you had stood still.

So when we sit, we just sit. Not thinking about this or that, or trying to enter some kind of fugue state just sitting and letting the world be itself. Sometimes that means we will have to keep coming back to open awareness because we are angry and angry thoughts keep arising, and other times sitting doesn’t require nearly as much effort and it’s peaceful and quite. We try to sit through it all because we aren’t in the normal mode of rejecting, ignoring, and embracing. We are simply allowing what is to be itself without commentary or attachment.

If I could add one more thing. Fear isn't something to be afraid of. It's natural and can help us identify dangerious or threatening situations. Fear is good in the right amounts and at the right times. Fear of a tiger walking towards you in the jungle should cause fear because it's a tiger. Fear of the tiger behind the glass wall of a zoo can still be normal and fine. But if it got to the point that you wouldn't go to the zoo at all because of the tiger then we maybe verging on a problem. If you hate zoos because of all the animal smells and don't want to go to one then maybe we don't have a problem. Does that make sense? Fear can cause us to be paralized or act rashly but it can also keep us safe. We have to try and us our mental faculties to just the approprateness of our emotional responses. Sometimes we have a normal reaction but the intesity doesn't reflect the situation. This is something I struggle with so you're not alone. But fear doesn't make you any less of a person infact it's only lving things (not all of them) that can even feel fear.

Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday

[aprapti]

i have asked myself that question for 35 years. it took the form of a well known koan: why do we put on our robes at the sound of the bell.
Then i read a book by Kodo Sawaki. he was the champion of zazen doing nothing else in his life but zazen. He said: zazen is good for nothing. from that time on, the question fell away. The last 7 years i just sit.

[emoji1374] aprapti


sat (without why )

[paulashby]

I sit to clear some of the fog of self-centeredness that feeds a distorted view that
that the little I is the center of the universe. Sitting can give us the time to simply
notice the BIG I that was always there...even as it beats our own heartbeat.
Soto is breaking the chains of expectation that would provide motivation to
follow detours for the little I such as:
The little I that wants to grap a big slice of enlightenment cake.
The little I that needs to be perfect.
The little I that has all the answers.
The little I who has the one true religion in their pocket.
The little I on the ever tempting path of endless self-improvement.
The challenge is to learn, often over years, that the detours are what Dogen
is pointing us beyond. And yes,the path of endless self-improvement
is a delightfully tempting motivation that may get us started on the path.

Gassho, peace, Paul sat lah

[Kokuu]

I am practicing Zazen to become fearless, although I have nearly defeated the social anxiety, there are other things, that cause me anxiety, the ordinary day-to-day problems that
everyone face from time to time, or stress. The motivation I think has high importance in our practice

Hi Erinis

I think that initially there is always something that brings us to practice, a reason, a motivation. For me, that was finding a way to work with the pain and unpredictability of chronic illness.

However, over time, that motivation will often fade and we just sit to sit. There is no need to force that to happen, we are where we are, and motivation can be important to keep us getting to the cushion.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Shonin Risa Bear]

For me? Hmm.

Zazen is what you do when you give up.

To put it in too many words (careful!!), since you are already the universe, just be that.

gassho
ds gave up a little bit today

[Houzan]

Thank you for you question, Erinis. Helpful to me to read all the wise responses above[emoji120]

I think it's impossible to sit Zazen for no reason, of course when we sit we sit with non-attainment attitude, but motivation itself is conditioned, is it not? therefore how can we sit without why?
In regard to Zen there where also a statement, that we are always beginners, if so, there can't be any motivation right, I am a bit stuck here

I think the way to understand these contradictions is to keep in mind that there are two modes of being (or realities) that might contradict each other, but both are simultaneously true non the less. Therefore you do sit both with and without motivation as there both is and isn’t a why of sitting. But I will have to leave this to other more capable members to explain, if I’m on the right track that is.

Gassho, Michael
Satlah

[Erinis]

Hi Erinis

I think that initially there is always something that brings us to practice, a reason, a motivation. For me, that was finding a way to work with the pain and unpredictability of chronic illness.

However, over time, that motivation will often fade and we just sit to sit. There is no need to force that to happen, we are where we are, and motivation can be important to keep us getting to the cushion.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

Hi Kokuu,

that's just what I meant, what do people bring to practice zazen initially

You see, I was ruminating about the response when the people would ask me why I practice Zazen, because I am starting to feel that I no longer have motivation, I just sit for itself.
But for other people it might be hard to understand, that itself sitting is a gate to being, the Buddha nature.
It's funny though to what egoic thoughts I get entangled

So to become fearless would be probably my response, because that's what to people make sense, I wish that people understand to what I am doing and why.

Gassho
Sat today

[Rich]

Well I haven’t become free of fear and anxiety but the habits that exaggerate that have weakened so i manage it better

Sat/lah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tokan]

Hi Ennis and sangha

There are some long responses so, just for a change, I will be succinct!

I think it's impossible to sit Zazen for no reason, of course when we sit we sit with non-attainment attitude, but motivation itself is conditioned, is it not? therefore how can we sit without why?

I started with a whole bunch of 'wants', I eventually attained nothing, dropping the 'why' in the process. There is only attainment when we have yet to realise there is nothing to attain.

I am practicing Zazen to become fearless

Don't sit zazen to become fearless, sit zazen and become fearless.

because I am starting to feel that I no longer have motivation, I just sit for itself.

Welcome home

Gassho, Tokan

satlah