Why so much anger?

[Shindo]

Re: Why so much anger?

Some good, kind and compassionate responses here _/_

Yes it has been an undefying spectacle watching Jundo mud wrestling :shock: , but for reasons mentioned above there would appear to be just cause. Personally I would prefer if Jundo could resist the temptation to set the record straight (as he sees it) in public & with a megaphone, but that is his choice. Does it negate his achievements and teachings - no, they have been wonderful. Do I wish he had the control and composure to deal with this offline - oh yes.

Time to take stock, dust oneself off and do what you do best Jundo - teach and practice, you have a lot to give. But (IMHO) for gawd sake drop your addiction to post in other peoples (often hostile) blogs - you have plenty of scope here and at the Zen International Forum.

With deepest respect and a wry smile

Jools

[Jundo]

Re: Why so much anger?

Hi Guys,

Okay, let me try to jump in here.

1- I believe that, over the last couple of years especially, my teacher has exhibited qualities common in some elderly people such as a frequent paranoia about some around him who care for him deeply, selective memory, confusion. This is coupled with an amazingly brilliant mind that still shines at age 90. But the fact of the matter is that half of his "Dharma Heirs", including people who have been with him for decades and who love him, cannot talk to him (by my count, about 15 or more people, although some went their own way for other reasons. Most of the rest of the "Dharma Heirs" are safely on the other side of the world, and just stay out of his way). He is in his "you are in grandma's will/you are cut out of grandma's will" stage. This IS NOT the Nishijima Roshi I have known for years, although he always was a very strong-willed and stubborn guy. I have not even gone into all of what was involved here, but what the hey! Some of it includes the fact that he began to emphasize more and more with me that he thought the "Jews run the world economy", and he was suspicious that they were trying (through me, it became clearer) to take over his legacy, copyrights to his books and such. This belief about the Jews having excessive power over the banks and media is very common in Japan, especially among people of Roshi's generation (it is just a kind of quaint ignorance, usually said in admiration for how "smart and hard working" the "hard working and smart" Japanese think about the Jewish people, so I usually laugh it off.) But this was getting to be excessive, and he really was starting to think that world-Jewry, vie Jew-ndo, had nefarious plans on his books and such. I have been told that it was one of the reasons, in part, that other Jewish Dharma heirs of Roshi have split, including the translator of his books into Hebrew.

I say that as but --one-- example, and not the only example, of changes in Roshi. And I emphasize again, this is NOT HIM as I have known him, just the workings of a 90 year old dried out, oxygen deprived senior brain. The real man I have known for years is not like that.

2- About 2 years ago, Brad Warner broke off all communications with me. I would write again and again to him saying that, even though we disagree, we should be friendly and share a cup of coffee. He refuses, and the last two e-mails I received from him told me, quote, "Go F--k yourself" (he did not put hyphens). Fine and good. Personally, I believe all people, including people who disagree (and especially Buddhists who disagree) should remain friendly and be willing to share tea from time to time. But, it is his choice, not mine.

However, in one of my last clear communications with Nishijima Roshi, about 6 months ago, he told me that "Brad, as the head of Dogen Sangha International, had decided not to communicate with [me] anymore, and that Brad was now the head of DSI and if Brad had made a decision not to talk to me, then [Nishijima] was not going to talk to me." There was a witness to the conversation. I wrote to Brad and asked him to please ask Nishijima Roshi to keep communication open with me, Brad told me to go "F" myself again. I have heard from sources that Brad has, in fact, asked Nishijima Roshi not to talk to me and has pushed for it.

And, Nishijima Roshi, as the loyal "Samurai" and retired emperor, will do as the current emperor (Brad) commands (It is a very Japanese thing that 90 year old Japanese samurai do.). Couple this with his present mental state, and I am unable to talk to my teacher. I do not enjoy that, no.

3- Brad's book comes out, and I think it is a twisted lesson (I thought that the book was a very clever means for him to excuse his lifestyle, and turn it into a profound "Buddhist Lesson", by admitting to some of it ... he hides a lot, and prevaricates quite a bit). He puts me in it (pretty much all of Chapter 14 is about me and another 'Dharma Heir" who was critical of rumors we were hearing about him at the time), and invited me to respond (p. 223). I did. I thought my comments fair and truthful. No other Dharma Heir of Nishiijima has come forward to contradict anything I wrote about this terrible situation.

4- To those who would like this kind of thing swept under the carpet so that they may keep their dreamy image of perfectly tranquil Zen Masters in pristine mountain temples ... I say, GROW UP. Nothing about this should be hidden or need be hidden. Do you want a Sangha Leader who keeps things in the closet? I am sorry if your image is sullied. There is nothing particularly less human about a monastery or Sangha than an office or commuter bus. That is the one message in Brad's book that I applaud him for, and which he is right to say.

If you want a phony guy who tells you he never gets pissed off once or twice a year, go look for him/her. Look real hard. Lots of gurus out there who sell that image and, who knows, a few of them may even be for real.

Zen monks have conflicts, like anyone. A monastery is very tight quarters, people living elbow to elbow. The one thing that Buddhists should do is talk to each other and work out their conflicts, or learn to live with them. That is now impossible in my Sangha, and that lack of ability of folks to be able to sit down and share a cup of tea is one of my major objections.

6- I believe in speaking out when there is something wrong. I may be a bit frustrated, and a little angry, at people, but when did I ever try to teach that Zen Practice means never being a little pissed off sometimes? I just did two talks about this. Check 'em out:

Zazen Meditation with Jundo : Even Buddhas Get the Blues
http://blog.beliefnet.com/treeleafzen/2 ... do-ev.html
Zazen Meditation with Jundo : Still Off My Game
http://blog.beliefnet.com/treeleafzen/2 ... do-ze.html

7- A couple of housekeeping points:

And it seems that one of the side-issues in this whether zazen is sufficient, automatically leading you to behave in such a way that you don't break the precepts, or whether you also need to consciously follow the precepts.

We're were you during the Precepts training? Did I ever say "Zazen is sufficient to allow us always to be sweetness and light"? Did I not say that we try, as we can, to abide by the Precepts? But I also believe that my speaking out as I did was, for me and my Sangha, the right thing, or better, lesser of two evils. Keeping silent had its good points too, but I felt that speaking out was the more honest course.

The real teaching is to see HOW these teachers accept and deal with their human failings . . . so, like the sign says, life is our temple.

Absolutely.

I think what surprises me most is the fact that they're doing this in public, in plain sight of their students and others, rather than sitting down and talking things out (well, sitting down virtually...).

Nobody is more surprised, or regretful, than me that that has been made not an option. I can't get these guys to even take a phone call. So, my option was to talk or keep my mouth shut (and all this under the rug). I understand which way many of you would prefer.

For the quote above (sorry to snip it) Taking the precepts doesn't bind you to anyone Teacher or otherwise. .

That is my interpretation too.

One more thing I learned: that Jundo has edited some forum posts, and has banned at least two people from the forum. Now there may have been reasons for this, but it's especially surprising considering that Jundo made a point of mentioning how he was banned from the esangha forum...

In the two years that this Forum has been here, I have deleted (in my memory) three posts by others. One was an unfunny really dirty joke (I might have kept it if it was funny), and two involved two members getting into a name calling fight here. Stephanie also reminded me that I shortened a couple of her posts when I was trying (I thought it was skillful means) to show her that her mind was running on and on with words. Harry left here (and is always welcome back) because he was picking fights, and verbally abusive to some people. Stephanie was asked to bring a doctor's note (and I recommended she follow his instructions), because I cannot have people around here I think may be a danger to themselves. That is how I felt at the time. She never complied, although I offered to pay myself for the visit.

I will say that my understanding is that one former treeleafer was asked to leave because he was using abusive language toward another. The second person was simply asked to leave temporarily until they sought professional help (many of us thought this person might be suicidal as their posts were almost always about how bleak the universe was). I think Jundo was simply trying to force this person to seek the help they needed, and to avoid enabling a downward spiral. Hindsight says this person was not suicidal, but at the time it seemed like the lesser evil would be to use tough-love rather than read about their suicide.

Yes, that is my recollection.

I think that covers everything.

If you guys don't know who I am yet, or that I'm just flesh and blood ... well, I do not chase people into this place, and I do not run after them when they go.

I always say, the only Golden Buddhas and Perfect Zen Teachers are the dead ones ... cause they dropped all their bad habits out of the old Buddhist story books.

Any questions? I am happy to answer.

Gassho, Jundo

[Tobiishi]

Re: Why so much anger?

Jundo, I appreciate your candor, humanity and frustration. I believe you are respected here to a great extent, and cared for as a teacher and a person. Sometimes the sh!t just hits the fan, and you if you're standing behind it.

Gassho,
Tobiah

[Eika]

Re: Why so much anger?

Any questions? I am happy to answer.

No. I'm good.
The anti-semitic thing is a bit of a surprise, but I don't know much about the sub-narratives of Japanese culture.

Thanks for your openness. Gassho,
Bill

[Jundo]

Re: Why so much anger?

The anti-semitic thing is a bit of a surprise, but I don't know much about the sub-narratives of Japanese culture.

Thanks for your openness. Gassho,
Bill

Look, my own grandmother, who died at age 94, was convinced in the end that my mother was trying to poison her breakfast coffee every morning. I am pretty sure that was not the case. My mother, in the last stages of breast cancer, had a series of strokes and was living a new imagined story every day, many of which involved being kidnapped and held for ransom by pirates. I am pretty sure that did not happen either.

Sad as it is, I have been through this before. Nishijima is not anywhere near as bad as other older folks who get like that, but I am pretty sure that is what is going on with him too. I do not attribute his words and thoughts to the man I have known and loved for years. Okay?

Frankly, there have been many recent cases of elderly Zen teachers getting a little confused in their old age. Soen Nakagawa basically locked himself in a room for several years, crying and wetting himself, and his students would slip meals in to him. Old Zen masters are no different from old anybody. His students have now written a very honest book about that. (No, Nishijima is no where near that stage either, and I hope he never is).

We all get old. Hope you guys are as patient with me 40 years from now.

Gassho, Jundo

Ps- Yes, the whole thing is very unpleasant.

[Taigu]

Re: Why so much anger?

Hi everybody,

I met Jundo for the very first time last summer for the rakusu videos. Although we sometimes did disagree in the past I made the decision to come and help him with this jukai because I really believed he is genuine and sincere. We instantly got on like a house of fire.

Being myself in the midst of this terrible Dogen sagha non-family as a dharma heir of a teacher that disowned me, Mike Cross, a roshi that doean't want to see me,Nishijima (I must be a kind of bastard, son of a non-Buddhist, Mike in his own words) and knowing a lot about the dirty laundry and various issues of many teachers over there, all I can say, is that Jundo is telling the truth. I witnessed a conversation between Nishijima and him, even spoke to roshi,and had a look at Brad's emails...Jundo is telling the truth and he has every right to try to make things clear. Most of Nishijima's Dharma heirs do know about Nishijima issues and expressed concern in private many times, I was also there and did communicate with them.

Brad Warner has made terrible mistakes which he wants to be perceived as virtues.His arrogance and hubris are phenomenal and his understanding, sometimes brilliant, can also be very shallow and twisted. He represents in my eyes a tendency of Western Zen these days to promote a teenage-like vision, sooooooooo coooooooool, who wants to make a big revolution, have a god go at everything and sparkle a good amount of bad language on dharma discourses. When I read those blogs, with all the fights, the swearing, the cool attitude and disruptive behaviour, I am right back in the English London schools where I tried to teach French to a lost generation a few years ago (who did not do and didn't want to do anything to get out of where they were). Am I conservative? No I am not. I just believe in kindness, in the possibility to disagree without turning wild and provocative.

The amount of racism found in some teachers is really a cause for concern, Nishijima is openly against Jews, so is Mike Cross calling Jundo names or adding other forms of racism to his repertoire, disliking French for instance...Sad but true.

I was telling Jundo recently that I can see two styles of Zen practice, one that turns people into tigers, mighty, abusive, arrogant... the other on that turns people into cats. Having met many Zen teachers in my short life, I noticed that they could either be mild and very gentle, or go in the opposite direction. Both are great teaching styles. It depends what you are shopping for and how much abuse you are preapred to take. For me now, it is zero tolerance. No more abusive teachers, thank you. That is why I walk alone, seing life as it is and the numerous human beings I meet and work with as my teachers. I believe Jundo belongs to the second one. But a cat has paws and sometimes uses them. Your disappointment is an ideal picture being trashed. The collapse of your own illusion as some of you pointed out so clearly.

So...let's go back to the cushion. And we can still respect Nishijima, Mike, Brad and the likes, but it does not mean we have to allow them to throw their tandrums and be abusive to us or others. May I remind everybody that in a bullying situation that takes place in a school between two kids, there is a bully who needs help and a victim who also create the bullying and needs to learn to handle things in a different way, learn to say no or that's enough or seek for the help of somebody in charge. Well, Jundo has done exactly what was necessary to openly say stop. In itself, it is a great teaching and takes a lot of courage.

Gassho

Taigu

[Jundo]

Re: Why so much anger?

Me again,

I will tell you, with a couple of days to look back at this, where I think I was really wrong.

I started off with a strong, but fair critique of Brad's book (being a character in the book and all).'

I let it gradually get to be about Nishijima Roshi and his personal problems, especially as I do not think he is responsible for that. On that, I should have respected the man's dignity and not made him the issue. I should not be talking about his health issues and foibles.

Gassho and Mia Culpa, J

[disastermouse]

Re: Why so much anger?

I'm a bit worried about Brad. I've never understood the SG thing, and although I think they are beautiful women, I don't see anything especially Zen or not Zen about porn. I certainly don't see anything that Zen about punk rock either.

Most disturbing to me is Brad's reaction to criticism - it should be obvious to the self-aware person that his response is counterproductive. Brad's books are a good entry point for the angry and disaffected, but let's hope that they read and learn from more folks than just Brad Warner.

It's also good to hear from Jundo on this. We need to be aware of how our own biases affect our judgment. Steph is permanently soured on Jundo even though what he did, I thoroughly believe, was motivated by compassion and not ego.

We can all be soured that way. On Brad. On Jundo. On our lovers and our friends. It often has so little to do with the other person, I think we need to examine our real motivation.

Chet

[Undo]

Re: Why so much anger?

I would like to thank all those for posting.

Some of the subject matter is difficult but needs to be discussed. The fact it is done so here shows how effective this Sangha is. As it's online it must also be one of the most open.
I joined this Treeleaf a couple of months after it started. It has without a doubt been a wonderful source of information and help with all aspects of practice. More than any other. I suspect I could have quite easily been headed to a tiger mentality but after being her for a while now I have found I do much better as a cat.

There has been the odd problem here.I have tried to keep out of the way as these issues inevitably occurred, mainly as I thought they were dealt with carefully and compassionately. They have also been a tool to practice and as important as all the others.
Jundo, I would never blindly offer my support to anyone (and you have never asked) but up to this point I believe you have done the right thing whole heartedly. I appreciate yours (and others) honest posts and they are great lessons for us all. The only thing I would hope is that you are not too hard on yourself about it. Also I hope other will offer all those involved the space, time and compassion they all readily deserve.

Deepest Gassho,

Undo

[Ryumon]

Re: Why so much anger?

Jundo,

Thank you for your explanations. I appreciate hearing more about the fact that you did try to resolve this, and that it was Brad and Nishijima who didn't want to. Personally, I read one of Brad's books, and some of his website posts, and thing he's a world-class a**hole. He tries to make his foibles into something to be respected, even emulated. As for Nishijima, it's a shame to hear of the whole paranoia thing. Sigh...

I have enormous respect for you, Jundo-sensei, and only raised the question here because I was surprised that this whole thing had turned into a blog vs. blog debate, with acrimony and vitriol almost melting my screen. My words here may have sounded like an accusation to you, but I guess that's just because I was as surprised by your language as by the comments of others. I certainly understand that you're human, and that you have anger like the rest of us. But don't you think, in the long run, it would have been better to just walk away, if these people wouldn't communicate with you? (Attempt at turning this into a lesson for dealing with anger...)

Personally, FWIW, I have no illusions about any "Zen master" being a super-human person. Maybe if I was in my 20s, and just discovering this stuff for the first time, that might be the case. I wasn't involved here in France, but I know some people who were disciples of Deshimaru, and, apparently, after his death, the feces hit the air circulation device in a similar way... Ah, power....

Gassho,

Kirk

[Shindo]

Re: Why so much anger?

Jundo

"GROW UP" - No shouting please.

Thank you for recognising the issues around posting about Nishijima Roshi health.

I can see that this situation is not fair or just for you, and that you have very limited means at your disposal to put your point across. I only ask that you consider how you go about this in future.

With respect

Jools

[Kent]

Re: Why so much anger?

I guess this goes to show we are all really "just beginners". Kent

[Eika]

Re: Why so much anger?

Gassho to all . . . great posts. Thanks to Taigu for assisting us with his perspectives.

For what it is worth, I think treeleaf is better for having this event occur, painful as it was and is for the principle players.

Sincere respect and gratitude to all of you,

Bill

[Shindo]

Re: Why so much anger?

& to you Bill
Gassho
Jools

[disastermouse]

Re: Why so much anger?

I too am heartened by the dialogue.