New practice, seems useful

[Ilmari]

Good morning everyone,

I’ve been reading Thich Nhat Hanh’s sutra translation collection. For my zazen practice, I created a a chart with the 16 mindfulness practices. The way I listed them, the first four and the third four are in columns at the top of the page. Then there is a large white space. Then the fifth through eight, and the 13 through 16 steps are in two columns. I find that before zazen, if I scan the columns I get wonderful reminders. Then, during zazen my eyes simply float in the white space. If a mental formation arises (my current challenge), my eyes glance down to “experience mental formation” or “experience joy” then float back to the white space typically with a smile. The white space seems a perfect representation of zazen.

Gassho, Ilmari

[Bion]

Good morning everyone,

I’ve been reading Thich Nhat Hanh’s sutra translation collection. For my zazen practice, I created a a chart with the 16 mindfulness practices. The way I listed them, the first four and the third four are in columns at the top of the page. Then there is a large white space. Then the fifth through eight, and the 13 through 16 steps are in two columns. I find that before zazen, if I scan the columns I get wonderful reminders. Then, during zazen my eyes simply float in the white space. If a mental formation arises (my current challenge), my eyes glance down to “experience mental formation” or “experience joy” then float back to the white space typically with a smile. The white space seems a perfect representation of zazen.

Gassho, Ilmari

I don’t know exactly what the 16 practices are, but I do understand the usefulness of reminders. We remind ourselves of our vows and commitments daily and every gatha and verse we chant is also a reminder. I do however find that no crutches or helpers are really necessary in zazen, regardless of what arises - a good reminder is that thoughts will always arise and zazen is not the cessation of spontaneous thoughts nor an attempt to mute them or chase them away. As Thay said, in zazen, free from distractions, our body itself is mindfulness

Sorry for running a bit long

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Tomás ESP]

If I am not mistaken, this is in regards to the Anapanasati Sutta, the 16 steps in the mindfulness of breathing practice, which is a form of goal-oriented practice to cultivate Shamatha. The noting practice is just an additional anchor to be aware of different characteristics that arise during the practice. I do have a question though, what do you mean by "my eyes simply float in the white space"? Do you mean your awareness?

Gassho, Tomás
Sat

[Jundo]

Good morning everyone,

I’ve been reading Thich Nhat Hanh’s sutra translation collection. For my zazen practice, I created a a chart with the 16 mindfulness practices. The way I listed them, the first four and the third four are in columns at the top of the page. Then there is a large white space. Then the fifth through eight, and the 13 through 16 steps are in two columns. I find that before zazen, if I scan the columns I get wonderful reminders. Then, during zazen my eyes simply float in the white space. If a mental formation arises (my current challenge), my eyes glance down to “experience mental formation” or “experience joy” then float back to the white space typically with a smile. The white space seems a perfect representation of zazen.

Gassho, Ilmari

I am sure, Ilmari, that it is a wonderful practice somewhere ... but if sitting here with us, please burn your charts!

Sit non-doing, no maps, no charts, no numbers. Learn the art of just sitting, beyond categories and columns, white or black spaces.

Learn the art of just resting, no need for 16 or 13, no other place to float.

DO NOT treat Zazen like a car navigation system, something that you program to get from point A to point B. Instead, please learn the art of simply being at home where one sits.

Gassho, Jundo

[Kokuu]

Hi Ilmari

I have previously found Thay's teachings on both the Anapanasati and Satipathanna Suttas to be really helpful. However, as Jundo says, in Zazen we put away the maps and guides and just sit with whatever arises.

When the Buddha sat underneath the Bodhi Tree, he remembered back to a time when he was watching a ploughing match - the sun was shining and he just rested in his natural relaxed state of awareness. We are not striving for anything in particular in Zazen but that idea of just resting as we naturally are can be helpful.

Shitou Xiqian (700-790 CE) also says something similar in The Song of the Grass Roof Hermitage:

Let go of hundreds of years and relax completely.
Open your hands and walk, innocent.
Thousands of words, myriad interpretations,
Are only to free you from obstructions.


Sorry, if these weren't the comments you hoped for in response to your new practice. I hope you will give Zazen a chance. Off the cushion you are free to read that suttas, but when sitting, we put them aside and just rest with what arises. That natural state needs no words.

Apologies for running long.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

"

[Ilmari]

I’m surprised to see the denial of the usefulness of Buddhist Sutras for zen practice. I’m also surprised to imagine a binary, where one either has “just sitting“ or “charts“. I find that “just sitting“ has greater depth and greater silence if I remind myself before sitting that the Buddha had ideas as well as a cushion. Without those ideas, I find that “the art of simply being at home where one sits” has become leisure.

But then perhaps you’re imagining I’m trying to get somewhere through this practice. That it’s like navigation. It’s nothing like that at all.

Gassho, Ilmari

[Ilmari]

If I am not mistaken, this is in regards to the Anapanasati Sutta, the 16 steps in the mindfulness of breathing practice, which is a form of goal-oriented practice to cultivate Shamatha. The noting practice is just an additional anchor to be aware of different characteristics that arise during the practice. I do have a question though, what do you mean by "my eyes simply float in the white space"? Do you mean your awareness?

Gassho, Tomás
Sat

That’s right. The 16 points are like awareness reminders that help one be aware of different characteristics that arise in practice. The “chart“ is just a brief summary of the points that I can put on the wall where I sit. I glance at them in that anchoring way before zazen. The way I created the chart has a lot of white space in the middle of it. During zazen I don’t look at the chart at all. I just look at the white space. The words in the chart have become almost like a sangha that consists of the Buddha’s ideas. I know they’re there, but I’m not reading anything. The cool thing about it is that it’s made me very aware of the “arising of” during zazen. When things arise I just let them go, as one does in zazen. But that little cloud of words also helps me let them go in a very loving way. And I understand the patterns of my awareness in ways that I never have before, since I’m touching base in a very careful way before meditation.

Gassho,
Ilmari
SAT

[Amelia]

If there was nothing but a white space, and no words, would your practice still be the same?

I only ask because as you say, you do not look at the words while sitting, but are feeling supported by their presence. If the words are removed, have they really gone anywhere? Do you need them?

Gassho
Sat, lah

[Bion]

New practice, seems useful

I’m surprised to see the denial of the usefulness of Buddhist Sutras for zen practice. I’m also surprised to imagine a binary, where one either has “just sitting“ or “charts“. I find that “just sitting“ has greater depth and greater silence if I remind myself before sitting that the Buddha had ideas as well as a cushion. Without those ideas, I find that “the art of simply being at home where one sits” has become leisure.

But then perhaps you’re imagining I’m trying to get somewhere through this practice. That it’s like navigation. It’s nothing like that at all.

Gassho, Ilmari

Oh no.. Sutras are important to practice, but practice is more than zazen! The way of shikantaza is the way of just sitting, beyond ideas and goals, beyond reminders and beyond expectations or improvements to the sitting. You say you place the paper in front of you and your eyes gaze at the blank space, so it’s a meditative exercise and that’s absolutely fine and probably a beneficial practice, but it just isn’t shikantaza. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it along any other practice! Remove the wall and the paper, sit below a tree facing the world, or from a hospital bed facing the ceiling… When sitting is done with total faith that zazen does itself and we just offer ourselves to it, everything else is contained within that sit: sutras, practices, enlightenment, emptiness, mindfulness, the charts, letters and blank spaces.

Please take this as just my ideas and observations. I think Jundo’s comment above clarifies things quite a bit.

Sorry I ran long again! Will shut up now [emoji1787]

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Ilmari]

If there was nothing but a white space, and no words, would your practice still be the same?

I only ask because as you say, you do not look at the words while sitting, but are feeling supported by their presence. If the words are removed, have they really gone anywhere? Do you need them?

Gassho
Sat, lah

Thanks to everyone for reflecting with me on this practice.

I am new to this community. In past meditation learning, I thought it was good to set a dedication for a meditation session. The phrase in Dogen is some thing like “sit like your head is on fire”. The words of the Buddha on the chart help me to set that dedication. If I practice without them, with no reminder of the sutra, the practice will go back to being leisurely sitting and letting go of mental formations. Much less samadhi. After some time the words of the sutra will be internalized. I could just read them before sitting and put them in another room, but that would feel like being in a zendo and asking all the sangha to sit outside.

Gassho,

Ilmari
SAt

[Rich]

If you sit like your head is on fire all the sutras will be burned and there will be complete emptiness and your mind will disappear

Sat/lah




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

I’m surprised to see the denial of the usefulness of Buddhist Sutras for zen practice.

Hi Ilmari,

Oh, there is no such denial at all! Rather, it is more a matter of which Sutras, and how they are approached, and when. I like to say that, in modern terms, Buddha may have taught tennis for some folks, and football for others ... and there may be times to play tennis and times to play football for all of us ... but one does not play football while holding a tennis racket!

I believe that this is one version of the 16 Reminders which you mention ...

‘Breathing in a long breath, I know I am breathing in a long breath. Breathing out a long breath, I know I am breathing out a long breath.

... Breathing out a short breath, I know I am breathing out a short breath.

... Breathing out, I am aware of my whole body.’

... Breathing out, I calm my whole body.’

... Breathing out, I feel joyful.’

... Breathing out, I feel happy.’

... Breathing out, I am aware of my mental formations.’

... Breathing out, I calm my mental formations.’

... Breathing out, I am aware of my mind.’

... Breathing out, I make my mind happy.’

... Breathing out, I concentrate my mind.’

... Breathing out, I liberate my mind.’

... Breathing out, I observe the impermanent nature of all dharmas.’

... Breathing out, I observe the disappearance of desire.’

... Breathing out, I observe the no-birth, no-death nature of all phenomena.’

... Breathing out, I observe letting go.’

While some of these Teachings are universal to about all of Buddhism, including Zen (impermanence, non-self, liberation from Dukkha), it is rather in the way that both tennis and football are played with a ball, and both are fine games, yet they are not the same game. These are also practices which one might gain much from at other times (e.g., it is important for all Buddhists to become aware of the mind's tricks, so that we do not fall into times of anger and excess desire, jealousy and the like). However do not bring tennis on to the football field. Also, seeking purposely to feel passing worldly joy and happy is a modern disease, our need to feel good, more TNH I feel than Buddha's original point of a Good which leaps through ordinary sensations of "good" and "pleasure" and "joy."

In fact, Shikantaza is sitting with such radical equanimity, goallessness, and acceptance, with the one goal of sittiing being sitting itself as we allow all the world to be all the world, that there is no need or effort to "be aware of and calm the body, make ourselves feel happy and joyful, be aware of our mental formations and mind, make the mind happy or concentrate the mind." There is no mind to liberate, in fact, no dharmas to be impermanent, no desire to have disappear, no birth and death. One simply sits Zazen to sit Zazen, with Zazen leaping through all thoughts of impermanence, coming or going, liberation or no liberation, happy or no happy, joy or no joy.

Then, a funny thing happens: One finds a Wisdom and Compassion always present, right through liberation, free of desire, beyond coming and going, birth and death. The mind and the dharmas are liberated! A Joy is known which is free of all worldly joy or suffering. Then, the tennis game is free of nets, and every inch of the football field is the goal attained!

Please just sit such way, putting the charts (and tennis rackets) aside for another time.

I’m also surprised to imagine a binary, where one either has “just sitting“ or “charts“. I find that “just sitting“ has greater depth and greater silence if I remind myself before sitting that the Buddha had ideas as well as a cushion. Without those ideas, I find that “the art of simply being at home where one sits” has become leisure.

If the practice is truly non-binary, then put the charts aside while sitting ... and just sit while sitting.

If a mental formation arises (my current challenge), my eyes glance down to “experience mental formation” or “experience joy” then float back to the white space typically with a smile.

There is no reason to do this in Shikantaza. When thoughts come, simply release them, do not grab them, do not be tangled. Do not seek to experience joy or the absence of joy. Do not seek to be happy. Simply sit, letting thoughts go, letting all be. Then, one may come to know a certain non-seeking and non-entanglement which plays through all small earthly thoughts or no thoughts, joy or the absence of joy. It is a Happy which is all worldly times of happiness, a Happy to let the tears sometimes roll down our cheeks.

Gassho, J

STLah

Sorry to run long

[Kakunen]

Hi

I am Soto Zen monk at Japan.

Good morning everyone,

I’ve been reading Thich Nhat Hanh’s sutra translation collection. For my zazen practice, I created a a chart with the 16 mindfulness practices. The way I listed them, the first four and the third four are in columns at the top of the page. Then there is a large white space. Then the fifth through eight, and the 13 through 16 steps are in two columns. I find that before zazen, if I scan the columns I get wonderful reminders. Then, during zazen my eyes simply float in the white space. If a mental formation arises (my current challenge), my eyes glance down to “experience mental formation” or “experience joy” then float back to the white space typically with a smile. The white space seems a perfect representation of zazen.

Gassho, Ilmari

Who is your teacher?

In Buddhism,we all everybody learn under teacher.

Did you practice at Plum Village?

Reading books,making image,IS NOT ZEN.

BUDDHA SAT UNDER TREE.Just do,Just sit.

Please show us your doing,and being.

I try to show part of my practice.Real practice.

This is not Soto Zen practice but this is the real doing.

Later I will show my real Soto Zen practice.

And please answer my question to you.
私の質問に答えていただけると嬉しいです。

Sorry for my bad English from Japan.
私は日本人ですから、英語が下手です。申し訳ございません。
どうぞお許しください。

Sat LAH
Gassho
Kakunen

[Kakunen]

Hi

Doing,chanting.

This chant is chant when after wearing Kesa(robe)

Please hear my voice of kind of harmony with nature.

I just chant,when I sing chant.

Show us your real practice.

Gassho
Sat lah
kakunen

[Tomás ESP]

Brad Warner put out a youtube video recently speaking about how it is important to sometimes stick with 1 practice. Why? Because if not people start picking what they "prefer" out of different practices and make a strange mish-mash that is only for our own desires and feeling good. There is no practice that will feel 100% nice all the time. There are moments of feeling challenged. Of learning how to let go of likes and dislikes. You feel like you need this chart to practice. But what arises when you simply let go of this story and just sit?

Gassho, Tomás
Sat