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"Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - Hongzhi -
Something that occurred to me is that this isn't just about the SZBA.
I can't remember where /when I read this but I was surprised that age/physical fitness was a criteria for being ordained in Thich Nhat Hahn's order.
Watching the recent ceremonies there wasn't a wheelchair to be seen.
I do understand that in a community (like for example Plum Village) its important to have able bodied members who can tackle all the hard nitty gritty physical stuff.
But there must be a loss incurred in not having diversity.
Maybe it just can't work to have one organizational body - perhaps there needs to be sub-groups. What's wrong with having The Soto Zen Association for Disabled Priests,
SZADP - or whatever, with its own training outline/credentials.
When I trained as a psychotherapist my organization was an outlier - its why I chose it - run by individuals affiliated with the 'people not psychiatry' movement. As time passed we became part of the establishment because things change, what seems revolutionary becomes the norm. Maybe what happens at Tree Leaf will eventually become the norm.
Just some thoughts,
Gassho
Jinyo
sat todayComment
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Perhaps standard is maintained because I have been wrong about controlling interests and their commitments to my welfare as a lay member, and I am secure as a Treeleaf Zendo member knowing something is important to me and you. Thank goodness [emoji28] there’s a group committed to our welfare as a person in a Zendo. Think of what happened in San Francisco so many years ago.
Gassho
sat/lah
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProPeaceful, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive,
for positive poetry 優婆塞 台 婆Comment
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When I completed my survey, I suggested something very similar to the SZBA. I recommended that they should create a separate department or committee in their organization dedicated to resources, advocacy, education, and support of disabled and atypical priests and members. I also explained that this section must be staffed by disabled persons, at least partially, to better serve and represent our populations.
I made a few suggestions to them, having co-managed volunteer disability groups before, and participated in others. I hope they do consider our requests.
Gassho, meian stlh
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk鏡道 | Kyodo (Meian) | "Mirror of the Way"
visiting Unsui
Nothing I say is a teaching, it's just my own opinion.Comment
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As I've mentioned elsewhere, these requirements also limit on socio-economic grounds too - how many people can afford to take off 3 months and how many employers would give you 3 months off to go on retreat? So the SZBA are limiting not only on physical ability but on class and also removing a whole load of householders from being eligible to become priests.
Gassho,
Heiso
StLahComment
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Well, think of it from a different perspective: one trains hard before ordination and harder after and it is not something one dives into on his days off.. or at least it should not be. It is called home-leaving for a reason and master Keizan pointed to two types of home leaving, but they both involved one pouring oneself into their commitment completely. Not everyone can be a priest and that’s ok, if there are responsibilities one puts before their priesthood. ( this is not about the disabilities issue, but rather the “no time off” issue [emoji1] )
Sorry for running long
[emoji1374] Sat Today"Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - HongzhiComment
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I so much agree.
And as well, in this Sangha, we are seeking to find a ministry in which priesthood and parenthood, calling and worldly work are undivided.
I often say that there are many good ways to be a Buddhist priest, today and of old: As a hermit alone in a hut or cave, as a monk in a monastery, a priest catering to parishioners needs in a temple, as a priest working as a teacher, doctor or in other right livelihood, nurturing sentient beings of all kinds ... all can be sincere, dedicated, Zen Buddhist clergy.
But in doing so, no aspect can be neglected: One must not neglect one's priestly work for worldly work, nor neglect one's family nor one's parishioners. It takes dedication to do it all.
Gassho, J
STLahALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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It is important to note that, for nearly 2500 years of Buddhist history, "householders" were simply just not "monk/priests," and monks/priests did not have spouses and families, simple as that, period ... for Buddhist clergy were celibate, leaving family, cloistered generally ... and "homeleaving" meant just that: home ... leaving. (There were some pockets of exceptions, like emperors who also became priests late in life, and basically stayed out in the world ... but, overwhelmingly, it was not done.)So the SZBA are limiting not only on physical ability but on class and also removing a whole load of householders from being eligible to become priests.
About 140 years ago, Japanese priests of all Buddhist denominations (although some had done so, some openly and some not, for many centuries before) began to marry and have children. Generally, this was seen as a decay of the priesthood, and is simply SCANDALOUS to the vast majority of Buddhists on the Asian continent, who look at the Japanese as "lay people dressed as priests" and a sign of the "end times."
However, I (and my teacher, Nishijima, and we are not alone) also see this as a great opening and opportunity to bring these teachings and practices out into the world, not unlike what Martin Luther did during the Reformation, creating a married, more worldly clergy of ministers arising from the celibate Catholic priests.
Still, please understand that "householder priest" is not the ancient tradition at all.
On the other hand, the SZBA members are themselves generally married and sexing, often grow their hair and have outside careers, generally lead middle class lifestyles in the west. So, it is a little hypocritical, I think, for them to say, "we are 'homeleavers,' but you are not 'homeleavers' enough by our standards." I feel that there is room in the world for all kinds of good priests.
Sorry to run long.
Gassho, J
ST+lahLast edited by Jundo; 02-16-2022, 12:50 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Please understand how funny people can get about orthodoxy in ANY religion, including Buddhism.
I just saw this story today about a poor Catholic priest, but wish to emphasize that Buddhism can often be much the same. We all have lines on where we draw "orthodox" and "heretical" ...
A Catholic priest has resigned after a church investigation found he performed invalid baptisms throughout most of his more than 20-year career, according to Bishop Thomas Olmsted of the Diocese of Phoenix.
Father Andres Arango, who performed thousands of baptisms, would say, "We baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." But Olmsted explained the words "We baptize" should have been "I baptize" instead.
"The issue with using 'We' is that it is not the community that baptizes a person, rather, it is Christ, and Him alone, who presides at all of the sacraments, and so it is Christ Jesus who baptizes," Olmsted wrote in a message to parishioners posted last month.
The error also means that because baptism is the first of the sacraments, some people will need to repeat other sacraments, according to the diocese webpage for frequently asked questions. CNN has reached out to the diocese for comment on other sacraments. Arango resigned as pastor of the St. Gregory Parish in Phoenix as of February 1.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/14/u...ion/index.html
Gassho, J
STLahALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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I’d kindly make the argument that it is Christ at the heart of all things, and thus a Christlike community giving a royal We baptism sounds just fine.rather, it is Christ, and Him alone, who presides at all of the sacraments, and so it is Christ Jesus who baptizes
Gassho,
Koushi
STLaH理道弘志 | Ridō Koushi
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Please take this novice priest-in-training's words with a grain of salt.Comment
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Let me just UNDERLINE and UNDERLINE again ... we are making no fun or "put down" of anyone else's religion!
Some folks, for example, Orthodox Jews, Catholic Clergy and Theravadan Priests, thrive with more certainty of rules and standards, and that is their BEAUTIFUL and POWERFUL path!
Others may thrive with more flexibility and openness of rules and standards, and that is their BEAUTIFUL and POWERFUL path!
The only problem comes when one tells the other that there way is not BEAUTIFUL and POWERFUL for those others.
So, even those who may have ways we might find strange are entitled to find such ways meaningful and sacred. Let us not forget this, please!
Gassho, J
STLahLast edited by Jundo; 02-16-2022, 01:43 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Discrimination in the SZBA: Small Changes, BIG BARRIERS
The story about the priest who said we instead of I is fascinating. If there is a God, would she really care about something like that? Would she cast off the thousands of people that the priest had baptized because of his mistake and damn them to hell for eternity? What about those who were already did? Do they get put on a bullet train from heaven to hell? Do they have to go from the good place to the bad place? So many questions…
Baptism is in the heart of the person being baptized, it’s not like the priest has some magical powers that he transmits.
Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat
Gassho,
Ryūmon
SatI know nothing.Comment
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Gassho2, meian stlhLet me just UNDERLINE and UNDERLINE again ... we are making no fun or "put down" of anyone else's religion!
Some folks, for example, Orthodox Jews, Catholic Clergy and Theravadan Priests, thrive with more certainty of rules and standards, and that is their BEAUTIFUL and POWERFUL path!
Others may thrive with more flexibility and openness of rules and standards, and that is their BEAUTIFUL and POWERFUL path!
The only problem comes when one tells the other that there way is not BEAUTIFUL and POWERFUL for those others.
So, even those who may have ways we might find strange are entitled to find such ways meaningful and sacred. Let us not forget this, please!
Gassho, J
STLah
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk鏡道 | Kyodo (Meian) | "Mirror of the Way"
visiting Unsui
Nothing I say is a teaching, it's just my own opinion.Comment
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