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You are just lucky that our standards are so low, that we let you in here.
It is fine to discriminate against someone, in my book, if they truly cannot fulfill a role: I do not think that there should be blind airplane pilots or surgeons (there can, however, be blind doctors who do other medical roles, or blind teachers of aerodynamics).
The point is only that good priests, who can demonstrate that they are functioning as good priests, are being kept out for no good reason because of physical factors that have nothing to do with their ability to function as good priests. The organization claims to certify who are qualified Soto Zen priests from who are not, so it should not exclude folks on such basis.
Gassho, J
STlahALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Discrimination in the SZBA: Small Changes, BIG BARRIERS
The crux of the matter is money. I fully agree that anyone that is able and willing should be a priest but tend to think that the current system excludes candidates that could do the job because of a poorly funded system and not due to evil intent.
No one is willing to pony up the cash to develop a system that tests candidates for ability regardless of disability.
You are a great teacher and if you transmit to someone, I respect that. It’s good as gold in my book but not so to joe zen practitioner down the street unless standardized credentialing can be accepted by all.
If someone sets foot in a hospital in the US, you can be reasonably assured that the doctor you will see has met minimum standards regardless of whether he/she went to Harvard Medical School or a Medical School in the Caribbean since in the end one can not practice medicine without demonstrating minimum standards.
I am not privy to the education of priests, but for the time being it seems that there are more traditional zen centers than the ones like Treeleaf and so they get to write the rules. This should change with time as places like Treeleaf continue producing good priests.
Again, I think the discrimination right now is more a function of lack of resources to know who is worth their salt or not. They just do what they know with the current resources and not due to evil intent.
I always go back to my sports analogy because I think its simple. To get a job in the NBA I would very likely have to be able to dribble, shoot well and dunk. I can’t do any of these thinks so I will never play in the NBA. The case can be made that a handicaped player should play in the NBA if he does not have an arm or leg if he/she is able to do the job.
In the case of doctors, it takes a lot of money to determine if an impaired physician can practice medicine. An impaired surgeon can be retrained to do anesthesia or psychiatry. It’s all about money.
Gassho, Jishin, STLast edited by Jishin; 02-09-2022, 02:27 AM.Comment
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It is not so for Zen teachers, there is no written or driving test to take (signal and look before turning left)!No one is willing to pony up the cash to develop a system that tests candidates for ability regardless of disability.
You are a great teacher and if you transmit to someone, I respect that. It’s good as gold in my book but not so to joe zen practitioner down the street unless standardized credentialing can be accepted by all.
But there are signs to look for that most other experienced Zen teachers can spot. For example:
- What are they teaching? Does it seem like (for a Soto Zen group) pretty typical, orthodox Soto Zen teaching, or is it some fluffy new age, make it up as you go along double talk?
- Does the person seem to know and have some more than shallow understanding of our history, traditions, teachings, practices ... or do they sound and look like they are making it up as they go along?
- Who authorized them, trained them, certified them and takes responsibility for them? Was their teacher someone with a decent and pretty solid reputation? Folks might be surprised at the number of teachers out there who completely made up their resumes, even sometimes inventing non-existent teachers and monasteries in Asia where they supposedly trained. I know a couple of fellows who had "Jukai" (as we have here), but claim it as authority to teach and Dharma Transmission.
- Do they have some track record of apparently dealing with students well, not harming them, no scandals, good reputation in general? Is the person acting like a guru, and does the group he/she runs have aspects of a cult?
- Has somebody checked them out and seen that their claimed resume is solid? For example, when I joined the SZBA, they looked into my resume, made sure the claims were supported. Wisdom Publications did the same before publishing my book.
- A disabled teacher can prove themselves to be excellent teachers, teaching from and with their disability, by looking at all of the above.
It is not a pass/fail written test, but a general character and credentials examination.
So, if the SZBA refuses to certify somebody who has all the above, but not the residential training because of physical hardship, they are excluding people who need not be excluded.
Gassho, J
STLah
Sorry to run long.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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My Dharma brother makes a truly good point. I don't know what the actual organizational status of SZBA is, but something I have learned over my [HIDDEN NUMBER] years is places with a logo and a decent website tend to look more organized, better staffed, and to have more money than they actually do. I notice things missing from their website that I think they should have (but who am I?) and it may just be that they are functioning at the best of their abilities. I am interested in how SZBA responds to the points Jundo raises.
Gassho,
然芸 Nengei
Sat today. LAH.遜道念芸 Sondō Nengei (he/him)
Please excuse any indication that I am trying to teach anything. I am a priest in training and have no qualifications or credentials to teach Zen practice or the Dharma.Comment
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I’ve been looking at another very important book maybe only to me since I live with a home full of beautiful women who’s minds surprise me. And when mine has no surprises. For my birthday last year daughter gave me another gift: The First
Free Women, poems of the early
Buddhist Nuns , Matty Weingast, and s suppose Ms Weingast is translator and editor of wonderful poetry by Buddhist Nuns.
Gassho
sat/ lah
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProPeaceful, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive,
for positive poetry 優婆塞 台 婆Comment
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But know that the poems are 90% Matty and 10% the nuns ... although, apparently, he did so with the best of intentions. You can read more here:
Gassho, Jundo
STLahALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Hello Bion,
I don't know whether I would want to be recognized by an organization that excludes/discriminates people with a disability.
When I joined Treeleaf I did not check whether this place is SZBA approved. I saw Jundo's and Taigu's teachings, the way people of this sangha interacted and felt at home right away.
Who gives the SZBA authority? Before SZBA existed the dharma had been spread and there had been authentic teachers. Why do we need SZBA? Who says they can decide what's best? When I look at the recent development, I doubt they are qualified.
Gassho,
大哲
#sat2dayno thing needs to be addedComment
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"Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - HongzhiComment
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Discrimination in the SZBA: Small Changes, BIG BARRIERS
Poet Seers Buddhist Poets. Anything by Thich Nhat Hanh
Gassho
sat/ lah
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProLast edited by Tai Shi; 02-09-2022, 08:29 PM.Peaceful, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive, for positive poetry 優婆塞 台 婆Comment
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Hello Bion,
Please don't get me wrong. I understand why this is important to Jundo and our priests.
I only wanted to question the SZBA and its way of handling things as well as mention that the Zen world also got along quite well without the SZBA.
I never put Jundo's or our priests' motives in question.
These are two different things.
Gassho,
大哲
#sat2dayno thing needs to be addedComment
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"Stepping back with open hands, is thoroughly comprehending life and death. Immediately you can sparkle and respond to the world." - HongzhiComment
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ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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