BLOWING THE WHISTLE on the SZBA

[Juki]

That should not be. I know the folks, it is a good group. Did you give a strange answer?

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Not at all. I think that maybe there was no administrator up at 545 am. Maybe they will admit me later.

Gassho
Juki
sat today and lah

[Kokuu]

Sometimes it does take time to be admitted, Juki. If you haven't actually been declined as a member I suspect it is just a delay with approval.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Tosei]

One of only a million reasons why I find in Treeleaf the place I've always belonged but only recently found.

Gassho.

st

[Seishin]

I have added my support in Facebook.
Deep bows Jundo.

Sat

[Shinshi]

Add a like on Facebook.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Bion]

BLOWING THE WHISTLE on the SZBA

Not at all. I think that maybe there was no administrator up at 545 am. Maybe they will admit me later.

Gassho
Juki
sat today and lah

My request was approved in half an hour or so..
Did you fill everything out properly and clicked accept rules at the end?

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Ippo]

I asked to join Jundo.

Thanks for showing us that sometimes "fighting" for what is right is indeed an integral part of our practice. I'll like after the accept (hopefully you're not removed)

Gassho,

Ippo

SatToday

[Juki]

I was admitted after a suitable period of "online Tangaryo," and gave a heart emoji and left a comment.

Gassho,
Juki

sat today and lah

[Gareth]

I'm very happy to support this, and hopefully things will change.

Gassho,
Gareth

Sat today, Lah

[Jundo]

I have found that the facebook "Soto Zen Buddhism" group is private, so hard to share. However, the post is available other places to share. Please use the following link and THANK YOU for doing so:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sotoblah/permalink/3268995326666934/

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Onkai]

Thank you, Jundo. I'm glad to be a part of a very inclusive community. I responded to the post with a heart. I hope your message will be heeded.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[Rousei]

Change is the only constant in the Universe! Fight against it, and vanish.

There are certainly some aspects we should find ways to allow change to happen in less contrastive ways than others, and others that perhaps should be regularly revised to more accurately reflect the times. Otherwise we run the risk of excluding the very beings we want to save.

On your post Jundo, I noticed some people both perhaps in your target audience and others not, not supporting the movement. However, reading their posts just left me feeling that perhaps their image of a priest, like the reflection of the moon, is not really what priests are. Beyond just trying to pin point what kind of priest we're talking about, what school of Buddhism, country, or target audience, their roles and "job" seem to be as diverse as the people that follow them. People seem to often point out that perhaps some people would have difficulties holding certain ceremonies, but I wonder if all priests do said ceremonies. If we accept that the possible roles a priest can fulfil are so wide and varied that no one priest fulfills them all but a selection of them, then we can more easily understand the importance of accepting and promoting diverse peoples into said roles. This is before we take to considering the ceremonies themselves, have they not changed over time in some sense or another?

I'm sure there are some ordained priests out there that don't accept disciples, and/or don't manage a temple, and/or don't hold dharma talks... but represent the way in their own manner.

Perhaps my perspective is too open? I'm sure some might think so, but change is the only constant.

Sorry for running long!

Gassho
Rousei
ST

[Jinyo]

I'm sure there are some ordained priests out there that don't accept disciples, and/or don't manage a temple, and/or don't hold dharma talks... but represent the way in their own manner.

Thank you Rousei, I feel this is the crux of the matter but its tricky. If things are going to be truly diverse then its probably not realistic to have one governing body of accreditation like the SZBA. Certain things might be held in common - like a code of ethics which is perhaps top of the list of what needs to be agreed upon globally - but actual training programs could differ. This is what happened over the years in the area of psychotherapy which I'm most familiar with so now there are many offshoots and declared ways of 'being a therapist'. However we have ended up with two dominant regulatory bodies in the UK which guarantee a standard of efficacy.

In a way it feels strange - possibly alien - to think in terms of a specific course content for priest training - but I think it could be done. This is just me throwing out ideas but I think we could recruit members from within Tree Leaf to deliver course content as we have members with many different skills. It would take a lot of organisation but with commitment it might work. Or we could just stay as we are (perfectly fine) as a place of 'sitting' with informal interest groups, etc. and not worry about the whole accreditation issue.

I'd love to hear what our Unsui feel about these issues,

Gassho

Jinyo

sat today

[Zenkon]

Jundo

I believe that your problem here is not one of doctrine, dogma, fairness or ethics - it is a political problem. And, you need to find a political solution. You want to change an existing SZBA policy and practice. I have found that a direct boardroom assault rarely works. The organization will resist and you will isolate yourself. I might suggest the following approach:

1, articulate what you want to change. I think you have done a good job here.
2. explain how this change furthers the organization goals. What is SZBA trying to achieve? Reach more practitioners? Expand the reach of the doctrine? What benefit does ZSBA get from your proposed change?
3. what are the obstacles to what you propose? I can think of a big one - quality control. You don't have to look long on the internet to find all manner of "masters" offering all kinds of Buddhism mixed with mumbo-jumbo. I suspect SZBA wants in-person training so they can ensure candidates meet their quality standards. They probably are very afraid of having charlatans operating under their name. You need to present a way that online training will maintain their quality control standards. Perhaps, you need to volunteer to run an online training and certification program, with review by a SZBA reviewer.
4. sell the program. Do you know any of the SZBA board members personally (or do you know someone who knows them), so that you can talk privately with an individual board member to explain ands "sell" your program, and also to find out who really makes decisions on the board. If you can get a "junior" board member to endorse your program, then maybe he will help you sell it to a "senior" board member. At this point, board approval of the change is basically a rubber-stamp.

I hope my thoughts are helpful

Gassho

Zenkon (Dick)

sat/lah

[Jundo]

... I might suggest the following approach:

Hi Dick,

Sadly, been there, done all that now for several years. No luck.

So, time to shine a light, to march and take some peaceful public action. If they resist and isolate, as they likely will, it is fine.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah