Article Warning Against Meditation

[Onkai]

The April issue of Harper's magazine has an article about the dangers of meditation. I can't find the article online, but it cited studies that showed that even just 40 minutes a day can trigger psychological disturbances, including sleep disturbances, depression and psychotic symptoms, even for people who had no previous symptoms. The studies included Zen meditation, but it wasn't clear if only rinzai was studied, or also Soto. It did include practices similar to ours, though.

My mental health is fragile, but zazen doesn't cause me any added psychological disturbances. It gives me better insight. I think it's important to be aware of these studies, though. I wondered if anyone else has come across this article.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

Sorry for going over three lines

[Onkai]

I found the article online: https://harpers.org/archive/2021/04/...of-meditation/

Sorry I didn't have it before.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah

[Jishin]

Interesting article. My clinical opinion as a psychiatrist is that meditation does carry certain risks just like anything else.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Ugrok]

Don't want to read it cause it will make me scared of zazen, which is a great relief for me nowadays, but : does it deal specifically about shikantaza or is it about other forms of meditation ? Because well, if sitting doing nothing is dangerous, then yeah, as Jishin says, it's the same as saying : "life can be dangerous"... No shit sherlock !

Gassho,
Uggy,
Sat today

[Jishin]

Water is lethal in sufficient quantities.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Horin]

Well, I think we face things during zazen that we often suppress in daily life. These unconscious things arise and may trigger ppl. But also, we learn this way to process these things in my opinion.

Gassho

Horin
Stlah

Enviado desde mi BLA-L29 mediante Tapatalk

[aprapti]

thank you Onkai!
at last i found a reason to quit sitting..



aprapti

sat (as you know )

[Kaisho]

The article seems a little misleading because she had preexisting conditions.

Also, the instructor may have not made the right call on her behalf or urged her to contact her professionals.

Gassho
Kaisho (Chelsea)
Sat

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk

[Inshin]

Thank you Onkai for sharing. I think that may be one of the reasons why Jundo constantly warns against chasing various meditative states and experiences. From my personal experience I used to do a lot of focused, concentrated mindfulness of breathing by myself, helping myself with books only. It triggered a deep trauma I wasn't even aware I had. I got scared and went for therapy that helped with trauma. I find Shikantaza safe, mainly thanks to Jundo's teachings.
There has been recently an increased interest in Dogchen practice, and Thogal in particular. A secret meditation on light and sight that when not practiced correctly can cause psychiatric disorders. Apparently there are quite a few charlatans on Internet who teach it.

Sorry for going over 3 sentences.
Gassho
Sat

[Seibu]

Well, I think we face things during zazen that we often suppress in daily life. These unconscious things arise and may trigger ppl. But also, we learn this way to process these things in my opinion.

Gassho

Horin
Stlah

Enviado desde mi BLA-L29 mediante Tapatalk

Gassho,
Seibu
Sattoday/lah

[Bearshirt Buddhist]

Bear in mind, after so much media hype for mindfulness a backlash is almost inevitable. I suspect this is more about selling magazines than anything. Bottom line for me is my zen practice has made my life much much better. May not be the right thing for everyone but certainly no cause to chuck meditation if you find it helpful. Be guided by your own experience, I would say.

Gassho
Theo
Sat today

[Jundo]

Shikantaza is generally such a soft, gentle way of sitting and accepting life, that it should be about as dangerous as a warm bath.

Most of the reports of problems are with very intense meditation styles, such as the intense, silent vipassana style of Mahashi Sayadaw, maybe even the long silent retreats of Goenka (as in the article), intense Koan introspection in the Rinzai or mixed Soto-Rinzai forms where they really push, extreme mental visualization techniques as the Tibetans sometimes pursue, etc.

Also, it is possible that, if someone has a pre-existing psychological condition, the silence of sitting can be difficult. Memories of a past trauma can resurface, or thoughts and feelings of depression can come to the fore because we are no longer distracting ourselves with other diversions. Likewise for someone prone to "panic" just by the quiet. I have heard of a case where a person sitting Shikantaza began to "hear voices" in their head, but it was due to their existing schizophrenia. They should only have been engaged in the practice under medical supervision. Persons with pre-existing psychological conditions should only engage in Zazen or other meditation with permission and supervision by a doctor or mental health professional.

In the rare case where some difficulty arises in Zazen, such as a panic attack, or a memory or emotion that is too much to handle ... STOP! Take a break, try again later. If the problem persists, discuss with your doctor. Talk to me or your other teacher too. It is very rare, but there are people in such a fragile or extreme psychological state that Zazen would not be for them.

Otherwise, Shikantaza should be like a warm bubble bath which, itself, can be dangerous once in awhile if we are not careful. (Of course, Shikantaza is a bath in which water and tub, bather and bubbles and rubber ducky, are one. )

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[JimInBC]

The article raises some good points, though it seems to working more to push emotional buttons than present a rational case.

I know the trauma community is very cautious of meditation. And meditation has been shown to trigger depression and anxiety in some cases. But in what percent of practioners? Is it only in practioners with pre-existing conditions? Is it only specific meditation practices? (The couple cases I ran into personally were young guys who did intensive 10-day retreats without having a long-term daily practice under their belt.) Most of the research on meditation is pro-meditation researchers trying to prove the value of meditation.

What one would hope to see is research, and based on those findings the norm becoming that meditation books and websites and centres and retreats provide a warning about contraindications for meditating.

It's certainly fine to have religious beliefs (what Jundo calls superstitions, but I find that word too dismissive) - rebirth, god, soul, Buddha Nature, leprechauns - but when it comes to assessing the risks and benefits of a practice, ultimately the only thing that will matter is what the research shows. Maybe it will support our beliefs about meditation. Maybe it will disprove them.

But following the science, even if it contradicts traditions or our own anecdotal experience, seems to me part of the Modernist Buddhism Jundo advocates.

In the absence of research, I think one can only be a bit cautious about recommending meditation if unsure of someone's mental health challenges, under the general heading of "first do no harm."

Gassho, Jim
ST/LaH

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[Jundo]

The article raises some good points, though it seems to working more to push emotional buttons than present a rational case.

I know the trauma community is very cautious of meditation. And meditation has been shown to trigger depression and anxiety in some cases. But in what percent of practioners? Is it only in practioners with pre-existing conditions? Is it only specific meditation practices? (The couple cases I ran into personally were young guys who did intensive 10-day retreats without having a long-term daily practice under their belt.) Most of the research on meditation is pro-meditation researchers trying to prove the value of meditation.

I so much agree. Much of the research that exists tends to be biased. Also, as in the article, it mixes up all kinds of meditation, especially the more intense kinds with the very low intensity kinds like Shikantaza. As long as all this meditation research keeps on mixing and matching disparate kinds of practice, it is fairly useless.

I can only speak by anecdote, but in 20 years of teaching, I have never had anyone come to me with a serious crisis. If there are reports of negative thoughts and emotions arising in Zazen, which happens sometimes, I quickly make sure that the person is receiving counseling from a mental health professional, and make sure that the counselor thinks that continuing Zazen is a good thing. In some cases, the Zazen actually was a first step for the person to deal with an issue that they had been repressing for years, but first realized when the quiet of Zazen caused it to arise. However, I have never personally encountered a situation where Shikantaza triggered a serious condition in anyone, not any more than a warm bath, a walk in the woods or appreciating the peace of a quiet garden might do so for somebody.

In fact, the walk in the woods can cause a sprained ankle, and the garden may potentially result in a bee sting.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Sorry to run long.

[Onkai]

Thank you, Jundo and everyone who responded. The article went against my experience, but I think awareness of differing views and discussion of controversy is healthy. I hope I wasn't being unskillful in how I presented the article, as I agree that this is a gentle practice.

Gassho,
Onkai
Sat/lah