How long did it take to see changes?

[Ugrok]

Hello !

I was about to post the same question, out of frustration this morning... Sometimes i feel like this practice did nothing for me ; sometimes i feel like it's the only thing that matters. Been sitting daily (never did sesshin) for maybe 5 or 6 years. I started because of anxiety. Well, my frustration is that it's still there, it comes knocking from time to time and i still fall in the same traps as before. The difference, compared to life before zazen, is that now i can stay with it, not act in emergency mode. And also i became able to feel like crap and, at one point, stop resisting it and letting it be as it is without changing a thing. I found that this attitude is the most precious thing in times of crisis, because i realised that my emotions and my physical reactions to them just take care of themselves if i let them. And then i can act to make things better.

But i'm still disappointed in the practice sometimes (which shows that i'm waiting for something to happen, of course) ; i'm still stuck in samsara and in dukkha ; i did not have enlightenment experiences (nor do i want to, mind you) ; i'm still anxious sometimes ; my ego did not dissolve in bliss ; i'm still a plain old human, you might say. I still did not found out how to feel and understand in my bones how samsara is itself liberating. I also don't feel what Jundo described above. I still get trapped in thought processes and i still can't "choose" how i feel. Maybe now i can see it a bit better and faster and try to let it go ?

Still, i continue practicing, it's now part of my life and will be til i die, i guess...

Gassho,

Uggy,

Sat today obviously

About to LAH

[Shonin Risa Bear]

People around me tell me I'm benefitting from the last seven years of sitting. This may mean they are benefitting from my sitting; no idea when that started, if so. I can sit with that.

gassho
shonin sat and lah today.

[Jundo]

People around me tell me I'm benefitting from the last seven years of sitting. This may mean they are benefitting from my sitting; no idea when that started, if so. I can sit with that.

gassho
shonin sat and lah today.

Oh, I have had more than a few difficult folks with rough edges (me included) who really knew that the practice was having a positive effect in their life because their spouse, kids, co-workers, friends etc. were the first to notice that they have become easier, more balanced etc. Sometimes we don't realize ourselves, but the people around us know the changes ...

Gassho, J

STLah

[Shonin Risa Bear]

_()_ _()_ _()_

gassho
shonin sat today and lah

[shikantazen]

Hello !

I was about to post the same question, out of frustration this morning... Sometimes i feel like this practice did nothing for me ; sometimes i feel like it's the only thing that matters. Been sitting daily (never did sesshin) for maybe 5 or 6 years. I started because of anxiety. Well, my frustration is that it's still there, it comes knocking from time to time and i still fall in the same traps as before. The difference, compared to life before zazen, is that now i can stay with it, not act in emergency mode. And also i became able to feel like crap and, at one point, stop resisting it and letting it be as it is without changing a thing. I found that this attitude is the most precious thing in times of crisis, because i realised that my emotions and my physical reactions to them just take care of themselves if i let them. And then i can act to make things better.

But i'm still disappointed in the practice sometimes (which shows that i'm waiting for something to happen, of course) ; i'm still stuck in samsara and in dukkha ; i did not have enlightenment experiences (nor do i want to, mind you) ; i'm still anxious sometimes ; my ego did not dissolve in bliss ; i'm still a plain old human, you might say. I still did not found out how to feel and understand in my bones how samsara is itself liberating. I also don't feel what Jundo described above. I still get trapped in thought processes and i still can't "choose" how i feel. Maybe now i can see it a bit better and faster and try to let it go ?

Still, i continue practicing, it's now part of my life and will be til i die, i guess...

Gassho,

Uggy,

Sat today obviously

About to LAH

Thank you for posting Ugrok. My experience is similar to yours. Waiting for results doesn't seem to help me. These days I'm trying to forget that I want something out of practice. I am trying to take this practice as a kind of service for all beings. A useless practice (to me) where I just need to show up and let zazen sit itself

Apologies for over 3 sentences.

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Jundo]

I am trying to take this practice as a kind of service for all beings. A useless practice (to me) where I just need to show up and let zazen sit itself

[Kyotai]

3 months

Gassho, Kyotai
ST

[Jundo]

3 months

Gassho, Kyotai
ST

Can you be more specific, in days, hours and minutes?

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kyotai]

Can you be more specific, in days, hours and minutes?

Gassho, J

STLah

It is certainly just an estimate..but as far as the body mind dropping thing. I don't know much about all that.

Gassho, Kyotai
ST

[Chet]

All long time sitters,

How long did it take for you to see concrete changes in your life with practice? Changes like becoming kinder, being able to handle emotions better, recovering from disappointments better etc...

(if it applies) Also how many years of sitting did it take before you had the body mind dropping off or awakening

This is a genuine question, please don't throw zenny answers like "the moment I first sat zazen" etc...

I understand we shouldn't be looking for results and zazen is good for nothing and practice is enlightenment etc..; but just trying to see what the real numbers are for folks here.

Gassho,
Sam
ST

I came in backwards. I had a powerful experience after sitting three times when I was seventeen. I didn't know what it was (this was before the internet) for a few years.

However, I'd examine the urge to see results itself. That can be a powerful form of practice. Who wants to see results? What results? In what way would "kindness" simply happen and what sorts of ideas prevent it or make it difficult. Ask in an open, non-judgmental way. You may find that all the resources you need for kindness are here already.

I'm a bad person to ask, because like I said, I had a powerful experience very early on.

Chet

[Seishin]

I know you ask folks to avoid "zenny" answers but my life and me are always changing and I am not the person I was 20 odd years ago when I first started sitting zazen to destress from work. Despite sitting for a while with no pattern and then giving up for a while, after joining Treeleaf I have sat daily bar one day since I joined. Yet although I am not the same person, I can't say if it is the sitting or just time, age and "wisdom" that has changed me. The old me comes out now and then but generally I am calmer and more accepting.

When I started sitting I was chasing Kensho and some wild LSD type equivalent of enlightenment that never happened, world view at an atomic level or some such nonsense. It was not until I got here and actually started acquiring some knowledge that I found the books I had read/studied were Rinzai based. And that there was no need to chase anything as it was already here.

Anyway after nearly 1500 consecutive days sitting, nothing special or spectacular has happened. Each morning I just hunker down and sit expecting nothing and that is exactly what happens, nothing. Just sit. Simples.

Sat

[shikantazen]

I was in a online sesshin a few weeks back and asked a question regarding progress (like this thread). The main teacher answered something and someone else privately pinged me (on zoom) saying "Thank you for your practice Sam. It is is giving me strength. Thank you for your service to all of us". Later learnt he is a teacher too and it humbled me and made me realize our sitting is for all

Apologies for going over 3 sentences

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Inshin]

This is a bit peculiar but few weeks into daily sitting I stopped using eye mask and ear plugs when going to sleep. After years of needing perfect pitch darkness and quietness I finally started to fall a sleep with reality as it is.
The need to shut off, to escape it all, to become a hermit transformed into realisation that the freedom from "it all" is only possible within It All.

Lots more sitting to do.

Gassho
Sat

[Koushi]

For me, it depends on when you ask me that question. I’ve been meditating for most of my life (I recently turned 33), and I attribute mindfulness and meditation to be a large part of why I’m not in prison for anger issues/outbursts/violence I exhibited as a child/teen who lived through violence and trauma.

That said, those results were purely for my benefit for a very long time — it wasn’t until I went down the Soto path and began actual practice 8 years ago that I noticed myself becoming more service-oriented and empathetic. These days, I practice for others, and while I’d love to say everything’s peachy, most days they aren’t. I still have internal anger, anxiety, bouts of suicidal ideation — but practice allows to come back to here, and let things settle enough to deal/cope.

In a “zennie” answer that was true for me at least, it wasn’t until I gave up looking for benefits a couple years in and let practice just be practice that I started noticing the changes.

Apologies for the length of the post,

Gassho,
Jesse
ST