Zazen with closed eyes?

[Eikyo]

I had a problem in a previous house where the wallpaper, which was off-white with a sort of paisley pattern, would start moving after a while if I kept my eyes open. It was freaky.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

I experience this a lot too Kirk, but I find focusing on the visual tricks our minds play is a kind of train of thought, the kind which we can practice letting go of like we do with other thoughts.
Sometimes the radiator I am looking at starts melting Dali-style but I don't focus on the weird visual effects, they just are what they are.

Gassho,
Dee
ST/LAH

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[Bion]

Zazen with closed eyes?

Hmmm.

I would encourage folks to sit with eyes about half open (comfortably, without strain), looking downward more or less 45 degrees, at a blank wall or, if not possible, a blank floor. I would say to only close the eyes if there is a true medical reason (such as Kirk described). If you feel the need to close them to settle a bit, try to then open them after a time.

It really is a different experience, with eyes half open not shutting out the world nor running towards it. All in the visual field is met with equanimity and non-judgment, and we do not mentally entangle with whatever is present. This is also a good practice for when we return to daily life and can better meet all the things in our world with the same wisdom. In contrast, the closed eye practice is much more world removed, inward, trippy as the only thing seen are the patterns of dots and cones of the eye and whatever patterns they produce, or darkness.

So, I would encourage folks to sit with eyes half open or, if they have trouble settle, to close them for a few minutes then open them, looking at a rather plain surface such as a wall without mentally entangling with what is seen. Open eyes is the recommendation of the vast, vast majority of Soto Zen teachers in my experience.

(Sorry, ran more than 3 sentences).

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

Funny thing, I remember reading the “instructions” for zazen somewhere back in the day when I was learning about it and I think it was on the Soto website (though not really sure) where they explained it was to be done with eyes half open, looking down at a 45 degree angle etc .. and then there was a little mention saying something like: many westerners have trouble focusing with eyes open, which is easier for japanese people, so in the west some sit zazen with eyes closed.. just don’t fall asleep! [emoji1787] To me that was hilarious back then and it still is now.

[emoji1374] sattoday lah

Short edit: probably not the Soto website. I think it was a monk .. Sorry about the extra sentences.

[Jundo]

P.S. - I sometimes comment this too:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just sit, looking out through my half open eyes, no differently than if I were sitting at my kitchen table looking at the room or driving a car looking at the road. If looking at the wall, I am just looking as if looking at any scenery. Normal vision, but I just am not particularly thinking about, pondering or concentrating on what I am seeing. I describe it as "staring at everything and nothing in particular". My eyes take in the room or the floor or wall quiet naturally, but I do not latch onto anything mentally to think about what I am seeing. For example, my eyes may rest on a chair or on some spots on the wall, but I just do not get lost in thoughts such as "ugly chair, need to go chair shopping" or "those dots look just like a giraffe"

My focus just wanders from point to point to point quite naturally, resting where they rest, on this or that, then moving on when they move on.

What a room looks like before Zazen ...



What the room looks like during Zazen (but just not thinking particularly thoughts like "ugly sofa, nice chair, wish I were outside, need to clean this dirty floor ... "



Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Margherita]

I sit with my eyes half closed, looking down at 45 degrees, but I have very dry eyes, so at times they start twitching or stinging a lot. If that happens I will close my eyes for a few seconds to let them rest, every so often. I find sitting with my eyes closed to feel differently, I prefer to keep my eyes half open if possibile.

Gassho,
Mags
ST

[Onka]

IMHO I think people think too much about having their eyes "half open". May I suggest that approaching Shikantaza and Kinhin with "soft eyes" as it was descdibed to me my first time at an IRL Zendo. "Soft eyes" to me describes a relaxed gaze that focuses on nothing but allows awareness of everything.
Gassho
Onka
ST

[Eikyo]

IMHO I think people think too much about having their eyes "half open". May I suggest that approaching Shikantaza and Kinhin with "soft eyes" as it was descdibed to me my first time at an IRL Zendo. "Soft eyes" to me describes a relaxed gaze that focuses on nothing but allows awareness of everything.
Gassho
Onka
ST

Yes this is a helpful description and how I approach it too (but didn't have the words for). Thank you Onka [emoji1431]

Gassho,
Dee
ST / LAH

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[Jundo]

IMHO I think people think too much about having their eyes "half open". May I suggest that approaching Shikantaza and Kinhin with "soft eyes" as it was descdibed to me my first time at an IRL Zendo. "Soft eyes" to me describes a relaxed gaze that focuses on nothing but allows awareness of everything.
Gassho
Onka
ST

Yes, lovely. And don't forget to blink too! There is nothing unnatural or forced about sitting with eyes a bit open, and I often compare it to how we are when driving a car, looking at the road ahead ...

Gassho, J

STLah

[Inshin]

Sitting with eyes half opened made them very watery, tears would fall down my cheeks so in my discouragement I did more reaserch and I came across short videos by Olivier Wang-Genh were he recommends having eyes 1/3 opened, just allowing for the light to enter but not being distracted by forms - that seems to work fine for me, and I close my eyes just at the very beginning of zazen to settle down more easily.
I also noticed that sitting and allowing outside in, "helps" for Samadhi / flow concentration to spill into activity, whereas it takes a bit of time to emerge from closed eyes meditation back to reality.
I wasn't sure how relevant it was for Zazen but now after reading your replies I understand that it has a significance - for the whole of life to gradually become Shikantanza and not only time on the zafu.

Thank you.

Gassho
Sat

[Bion]

Sitting with eyes half opened made them very watery, tears would fall down my cheeks so in my discouragement I did more reaserch and I came across short videos by Olivier Wang-Genh were he recommends having eyes 1/3 opened, just allowing for the light to enter but not being distracted by forms - that seems to work fine for me, and I close my eyes just at the very beginning of zazen to settle down more easily.
I also noticed that sitting and allowing outside in, "helps" for Samadhi / flow concentration to spill into activity, whereas it takes a bit of time to emerge from closed eyes meditation back to reality.
I wasn't sure how relevant it was for Zazen but now after reading your replies I understand that it has a significance - for the whole of life to gradually become Shikantanza and not only time on the zafu.

Thank you.

Gassho
Sat

Ania, if you simply relax your eyes, looking down slightly, defocusing your vision instead of insistently gazing at one spot, you’ll find your eyes naturally remain open enough. If you force them to stay in a certain position they might get tired and teary. There’s also a point to facing a wall, not sitting in direct sunlight, not facing a window and keeping the lighting dim in your sitting space. Keep your eyes defocused, almost like you’re looking at something that’s between your nose and the wall and try to sit not farther than 1 m from the wall. See if that maybe helps. [emoji3526]

Sorry for running long!

[emoji1374] SatToday

[Inshin]

Ania, if you simply relax your eyes, looking down slightly, defocusing your vision instead of insistently gazing at one spot, you’ll find your eyes naturally remain open enough. If you force them to stay in a certain position they might get tired and teary. There’s also a point to facing a wall, not sitting in direct sunlight, not facing a window and keeping the lighting dim in your sitting space. Keep your eyes defocused, almost like you’re looking at something that’s between your nose and the wall and try to sit not farther than 1 m from the wall. See if that maybe helps. [emoji3526]

Sorry for running long!

[emoji1374] SatToday

Thank you!

Sat

[Meitou]

IMHO I think people think too much about having their eyes "half open". May I suggest that approaching Shikantaza and Kinhin with "soft eyes" as it was descdibed to me my first time at an IRL Zendo. "Soft eyes" to me describes a relaxed gaze that focuses on nothing but allows awareness of everything.
Gassho
Onka
ST

Yes, this. Almost exactly the words used to teach when I was first sitting 'formless' meditation in the Tibetan tradition - it just took a little practice at first, but now comes naturally.
Gassho
Meitou
Sattoday lah

[Seikan]

Agree with other comments above—I just let my gaze settle at around 45 degrees and let my eyes partially close to wherever they land while keeping them soft and relaxed.

I have no idea if they are actually "half" open or 1/3 or 42.973% open. I've never bothered to look.

Gassho,
Rob

-stlah-


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[Meian]

I've never been able to do this. My eyes are either open or shut, never in between. But due to a health issue the past couple years, I just do what i can now.

Gassho meian st lh

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[Tomás ESP]

After all of these responses, I will try again to sit with eyes half open.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[threethirty]

I had a problem in a previous house where the wallpaper, which was off-white with a sort of paisley pattern, would start moving after a while if I kept my eyes open. It was freaky.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

Some people pay good money for that [emoji23]

St

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