Zazen with closed eyes?

[Inshin]

When it comes to phisical guidance on Zazen, the only reasons for having eyes slightly opened, that I know of, is to allow outside reality in, and to prevent drowsiness and overflow of thoughts. But what if keeping eyes slightly opened is a struggle for someone and mind settles by itself more easily with closed eyes? Are there any explanations why sitting with closed eyes is not Zazen?

Gassho
Sat

[Horin]

Hello Ania,
I think Zazen is taught by good reason to keep the eyes half open. Also when we sit properly in this way, we should not encounter much struggle. As far as I know, the whole posture from the eyes down to the legs is ideal to have a comfortable, yet erect way to sit, a perfect balance between relaxation and sitting upright without tension. Maybe there's something wrong with your way of sitting when half open half closed eyes make you struggle?
Only my 2 cents, im sure jundo or the unsuis will say something more or better.

Also, sorry for too much sentences


Gassho,

Horin

Stlah

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[Sekiyuu]

To my surprise, in "What is Zen", Norman Fischer briefly mentions that closing your eyes is okay if that seems to work better for you.

Keep in mind that there is no "good" or "bad" zazen, and that we should abandon our preferences during zazen: I have had many sits where my mind never seemed to settle, but I wouldn't say they were bad or useless sits.

That said, the preferences to avoid knee pain, to stay awake, or to remedy twitchy eyes sound like good ones to listen to.

Gassho,
Kenny
Sat Today

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[Ryumon]

I confess that I have lots of problems with this for two reasons. First of all, I have an intentional tremor (a tremor when muscles are used, rather than at rest), so with half-closed eyes, my eyelids don't stay still. Second, my vision is such that I see very little out of my right eye, and when I'm sitting zazen, if I let my vision unfocus, things get very weird (I see double, among other things). I try to sit with half-closed eyes, but I have to admit that I more often have to keep them closed. At some times of the day it works better, but it's very difficult.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

[gaurdianaq]

I tend to alternate, I often close my eyes for a few minutes if I feel like I'm getting too distracted by the outside world, and then open them back up. I also rarely do half closed because it often feels unnatural (sometimes it does, but other times it feels like I have to put a great bit of effort to keep them half closed)


Evan,
Sat today, lah

[shikantazen]

I think looking down at the wall at a 45 degree angle automatically gets eyes half closed. I don't make any intentional effort to keep eyes half closed. I could be wrong though (will let Jundo or senior folks chime in).

Keeping eyes closed might make sense in other practices where we have an object to focus the mind on. In Zazen without any such anchor to focus on, keeping eyes open helps us wake up. Closing eyes one may get lost and may fall asleep easily

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[gaurdianaq]

Closing eyes one may get lost and may fall asleep easily

Gassho,
Sam
ST

Perhaps if you're keeping them closed for extended periods of time, but it can also be helpful to bring yourself back to the present moment rather than darting around to everything that's in the room/on the floor/the cat walking by. It also varies person to person, everyone is different.

[Tomás ESP]

I sit with eyes closed. I have tried to sit with eyes half open, but it just doesn't fit.

Gassho, Tomás
Sat&LaH

[Kyōsen]

Since I moved into my "new" place I have found that gazing with eyes open or half-open conflicts with the pattern in the carpet which makes my eyes very blurry very quickly. I think I'm going to look into some kind of blanket to lay down on the floor for me to gaze at that's a solid color.

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

[Ryumon]

Since I moved into my "new" place I have found that gazing with eyes open or half-open conflicts with the pattern in the carpet which makes my eyes very blurry very quickly. I think I'm going to look into some kind of blanket to lay down on the floor for me to gaze at that's a solid color.

I had a problem in a previous house where the wallpaper, which was off-white with a sort of paisley pattern, would start moving after a while if I kept my eyes open. It was freaky.

Gassho,

Kirk

sat

[Cooperix]

My eyes are closed. It works best for me.

Gassho, Anne
~lahst~

[Kokuu]

Hi all

I am quite surprised that so many people sit with eyes shut as I have always been taught that eyes looking downward at a 45 degree angle was Zen orthodoxy. Most Tibetan teachers also emphasise sitting with eyes open (or at least in the same looking down method which is neither totally shut nor totally open).

For me, shutting the eyes changes the nature of experience making it more inward looking and harder to take directly into life off of the cushion, but I have nearly always sat like this and don't have a problem with doing it.

In Fukanzazengi (Universally Recommended Instructions for Zazen) written by Dōgen in 1228, he instructs in the following way:

At your sitting place, spread out a thick mat and put a cushion on it. Sit either in the full-lotus or half-lotus position. In the full-lotus position, first place your right foot on your left thigh, then your left foot on your right thigh. In the half-lotus, simply place your left foot on your right thigh. Tie your robes loosely and arrange them neatly. Then place your right hand on your left leg and your left hand on your right palm, thumb-tips lightly touching. Straighten your body and sit upright, leaning neither left nor right, neither forward nor backward. Align your ears with your shoulders and your nose with your navel. Rest the tip of your tongue against the front of the roof of your mouth, with teeth together and lips shut. Always keep your eyes open [my emphasis], and breathe softly through your nose.

I will be interested to see what Jundo says as I don't know how pivotal eyes open is to the practice of Shikantaza. Presumably people who are blind and visually-impaired still sit. In cases where people have issues with aspects of sitting we usually allow them to change what they need to while still maintaining the wholehearted completeness of sitting with all that is but I will leave this one for Jundo to pronounce on.

Thank you for bringing it up, Ania, and for the others who have professed a preference either way. Apologies for going (well) over three sentences.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Seikan]

For me, shutting the eyes changes the nature of experience making it more inward looking and harder to take directly into life off of the cushion, but I have nearly always sat like this and don't have a problem with doing it.

This. I've practiced both ways as I used to keep my eyes closed when I practiced Vipassana, and it was exactly as Kokuu describes above--more inward looking. That approach certainly has its merits (especially with more focused forms of practice that may entail working exclusively with thoughts, sounds, etc.), but I personally find that sitting with eyes open (if you are physically able to, that is) is more in line with how Zazen/Shikantaza is sitting with the totality of the moment as it unfolds. That said, I would think that an eyes closed approach may be perfectly fine as long as it is the most beneficial means for someone in a particular situation, just like there is no one "correct" way to sit (cushion, chair, lion's pose, etc.).

Gassho,
Rob

-stlah-

Apologies for the length of my response. This is just my 1.5 cents, and I welcome any corrections to my view.

[Eikyo]

But what if keeping eyes slightly opened is a struggle for someone and mind settles by itself more easily with closed eyes? Are there any explanations why sitting with closed eyes is not Zazen?

Gassho
Sat

When I was taught at San Francisco Zen Centre (which admittedly could be different guidance from that here at Treeleaf), eyes closed meditation is considered samatha, however it is different from zazen because with eyes closed we are more apt to enter a hypnotic state (which may be why eyes closed feels easier). Eyes open is considered zazen as we are then letting in the whole world and learning to be with what is - to be with the shadows on the wall and the weird ways our eyes play with the light and go out of focus, to be with the sounds, with the breath, all at once, and to maintain the state of awareness and presence with all of that.
Eyes open is not easier, nor does that seem to be the point- but it is traditional zazen.


Gassho,
Dee
ST / LAH

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[Jundo]

Hmmm.

I would encourage folks to sit with eyes about half open (comfortably, without strain), looking downward more or less 45 degrees, at a blank wall or, if not possible, a blank floor. I would say to only close the eyes if there is a true medical reason (such as Kirk described). If you feel the need to close them to settle a bit, try to then open them after a time.

It really is a different experience, with eyes half open not shutting out the world nor running towards it. All in the visual field is met with equanimity and non-judgment, and we do not mentally entangle with whatever is present. This is also a good practice for when we return to daily life and can better meet all the things in our world with the same wisdom. In contrast, the closed eye practice is much more world removed, inward, trippy as the only thing seen are the patterns of dots and cones of the eye and whatever patterns they produce, or darkness.

So, I would encourage folks to sit with eyes half open or, if they have trouble settle, to close them for a few minutes then open them, looking at a rather plain surface such as a wall without mentally entangling with what is seen. Open eyes is the recommendation of the vast, vast majority of Soto Zen teachers in my experience.

(Sorry, ran more than 3 sentences).

Gassho, Jundo

STLah