Moving from a selfish practice to practice for all

[shikantazen]

Touched by below post by Horin in the other thread on Rapturous samadhi

My idea on it is that Dogen Zenji tried to make clear that the effort to attain certain mind states in order to gain personal liberation through the practice is the wrong way. He called it hinayana. Afaik is this exactly describing the aim for self liberation. Our bodhisattva vows aim in another direction. we try to liberate all sentient beings. We take the last place in the queue.

My practice is selfish (judging my zazen on focus, worrying if it is "working", no compassion in real life, would never give away my zazen "progress" to others) for my own liberation despite all vows I say daily. What tips do others have for really being a selfless student and not minding taking the last place in the queue

Gassho,
Sam
ST

[Sekishi]

Two quick reflections on my experience (take with a grain of salt and YMMV):

1. With time and practice, I feel the walls between “self” and “other” have gotten much thinner / feel like conventional constructs only. At some point “my Dukkha” becomes less and less of a focus and all beings come into focus instead. Eg “my suffering” isn’t the enemy, simply “suffering” is. It feels like this just comes with the territory, no forcing it.

2. I’ve found no quicker way to ease “my Dukkha” than to help someone else with theirs. It sounds simplistic to the point of absurdity: help someone else with their suffering and you both might feel better. If this seems self serving, perhaps, but see also #1... Dukkha is Dukkha.

Both of these come with a caveat: you need to care for your body and life too of course. There is a balancing act. When the oxygen mask falls, take some so you stay functional and then give it your child or others around you that need it.

Anyhow maybe that’s too simplistic, but it comes from this heart.

Deep bows,
Sekishi
#sat


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[Onka]

Intrinsically I'm a protector and helper, always have been someone community minded and always stood up for the underdog and brought home "strays" which I still do. My Practice is selfish in that I started sitting in order to sit with the pain of my spinal disabilities but the discipline and structure of Zen Buddhism Practice with its focus on compassion for all has united the selfishness and the desire to serve others.
I hope that makes sense.
Gassho
Onka
ST

[Jundo]

Sekishi echoes my heart.

Our bodhisattva vows aim in another direction. we try to liberate all sentient beings. We take the last place in the queue.

Taking the last place in the queue, we realize that there was never a front or back of the line.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Horin]

I'm not sure who was saying this. But to liberate all sentient beings means also to liberate them from "me", from my views, ideas, judgements about them and reality. I liked that aspect.
By dropping our ideas, our idealism about the others, and the reality, we have to drop the idea of me and about our personal enlightenment, I think.

Gassho

Horin


Stlah

Enviado desde mi PLK-L01 mediante Tapatalk

[Margherita]

Hello,
Sam I am no expert, I am still troubled by my ego that, I can see that clearly in Zazen, tries to cling onto everything and anything. If it can help, not long ago I decided to let go of my fears and my doubts and have faith. Faith intended as trust towards the enlightened people that have walked the Path before me and left a trace, like our Master Dogen for example. I want to trust these people that state that we are one, that when we sit the entire universe is sitting with us, that Practice is enlightenment and that our efforts will reverberate and be of benefit to all sentient beings. Also, to remind myself that Practice is not just for my benefit, at the end of my Zazen I bow and dedicate the session and the Sutras to all beings, in particular to those who suffer, and at times I add names of people I know of that are going through a tough time or need a little boost.

Gassho,
Mags
ST

[Risho]

I’ve been thinking a lot about this lately too, and the responses have been really good in this thread. It’s sort of, well it is, a koan. without any self-interest we wouldn’t have come to practice but, after time, and a little right intention I think that self/other divisor naturally fades a bit; that can’t be rushed; it has to unfold, naturally, so I just sit selfishness or not, goal or no goal, just sit

gassho

risho
-st

[Bion]

I believe one becomes selfless when one understands interdependence and that what it means is that the wellbeing of others is our wellbeing and vice-versa. The Buddha's initial mission was to find the end of suffering and that was meant to be for all beings, for if he could end his own suffering, he could end everyone else's, so if we strive to generate beneficial karma, we follow Buddha's example. It also helps to understand that every present moment is an opportunity to embody the Buddha so even if we judge past moments and actions as selfish, we have the perfect opportunity right now to act differently.

[Shinshi]

Well, you can't be a lifeguard unless you know how to swim. Just let your practice be your practice until you are ready for the next step. In the meantime practice small acts of compassion as you find the opportunity: pay for someone's groceries, wave and say hi to strangers, treat the earth with compassion, volunteer or donate to an organization that means something to you, smile more often, pick up some trash in the park, find what works for you.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Bion]

Well, you can't be a lifeguard unless you know how to swim. Just let your practice be your practice until you are ready for the next step. In the meantime practice small acts of compassion as you find the opportunity: pay for someone's groceries, wave and say hi to strangers, treat the earth with compassion, volunteer or donate to an organization that means something to you, smile more often, pick up some trash in the park, find what works for you.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

great advice! Practicing compassion is not like training to be compassionate. Every compassionate act performed already IS COMPASSION.

[Hoseki]

Touched by below post by Horin in the other thread on Rapturous samadhi



My practice is selfish (judging my zazen on focus, worrying if it is "working", no compassion in real life, would never give away my zazen "progress" to others) for my own liberation despite all vows I say daily. What tips do others have for really being a selfless student and not minding taking the last place in the queue

Gassho,
Sam
ST

Hi Sam,

I don't think I have much to add but I have a little something. You could thinking of our practice like a flower (maybe a Tulup.) When its still in the bud or its the night time they appear to be closed off. But they are still being a plant. But when the sun comes up it opens and its beautiful, fragrant and it allows bees and other insects to drink its nectar. The bees are a part of their reproductive processes. They take part in the life of the flower and the flower takes part in the life of the bee. I don't have enough time to fully clarif but I hope it makes sense and isn't to hokey.

The other thing is that care for yourself is fine and in fact if you loved everyone that would include yourself. But with time that love can grow to encompass more than yourself and your inner circle. Plus love can be expressed through actions as well even if we don't "feel" it. So when I hold my tongue with my kids I'm still angry but the love manifests in my calming myself down to deal with them respect and care (at least I try.)


Does any of this work for you?

Gassho
Hoseki
sattoday

[Jundo]

In the monastery, whether in Buddha's time or Dogen's, a monk would take care of others AND take care of his/her own personal needs, practice, mental and physical health. Others were fed and tended to, but one fed and tended to oneself too. Even outside a monastery, out in the world, we may be part of a loving family in which one needs and works to take care of others, feeding and clothing and comforting them, but we also must feed and clothe, rest and recreate, and comfort ourself in order to do so. The others are not separate from you, but neither are you separate from them. I think it is much the same for doctors and nurses in a hospital, flight attendants on a plane, social workers helping the poor, teachers in a school ... all need to strike a balance, so as not to burn out, between being 'other directed' AND their own healthful, moderated and mentally/physically balanced self interest (don't be too self-absorbed, personal pleasure addicted, excessive, greedy or someone who indulges in harmful activities). Self and others, all in balance, all in its time.

But Buddhism provides a few more lessons: That there never were "others" to start with, nor a personal "self," and thus the others are already safe ... although they just don't know so. As strange as it sounds, we rescue the others by proving to the others that there were never others in need of rescue all along! Also, they are just us, and we are just them ... so our sitting Zazen and practice is automatically their sitting and practice. Your sitting Zazen automatically saves the whole world, a whole world that never needed saving. There is nothing to do, nothing ever in need of doing ... and nobody to do it, or to do it to.

Nonetheless, though all that is true and, from one perspective, there is nobody in need of saving in the absolute perspective, nonetheless here in the relative world there are still hungry mouths to feed and minds to enlighten ... so when we monks and mommies get back up from the cushion, we get back to work feeding our fellow monks or children, waiting tables or curing patients, tending to passengers or the needy poor ... and tending to our own needs too.

All together, all in healthy balance.

Gassho, J

STLah

(pardon, more than 3 small sentences)

[Horin]

In the monastery, whether in Buddha's time or Dogen's, a monk would take care of others AND take care of his/her own personal needs, practice, mental and physical health. Others were fed and tended to, but one fed and tended to oneself too. Even outside a monastery, out in the world, we may be part of a loving family in which one needs and works to take care of others, feeding and clothing and comforting them, but we also must feed and clothe, rest and recreate, and comfort oneself in order to do so. The others are not separate from you, but neither are you separate from them. I think it is much the same for doctors and nurses in a hospital, flight attendants on a plane, social workers helping the poor, teachers in a school ... all need to strike a balance between being 'other directed' AND healthful, moderated and mentally/physically balanced self interest (don't be too self-absorbed, personal pleasure addicted, excessive, greedy or someone who indulges in harmful activities) so as not to burn out.

But Buddhism provides a few more lessons: That there never were "others" to start with, nor a personal "self," and thus the others are already safe ... although they just don't know so. Also, they are just us, and we are just them ... so our sitting Zazen and practice is automatically their sitting and practice. Your sitting Zazen automatically saves the whole world, a whole world that never needed saving.

Nonetheless, though all that is true and, from one perspective, there is nobody in need of saving in the absolute perspective, here in the relative world there are still hungry mouths to feed and minds to enlighten ... so when we monks and mommies get back up from the cushion, we get back to work feeding our fellow monks or children, waiting tables or curing patients, tending to passengers or the needy poor ... and tending to our own needs too.

All together, all in healthy balance.

Gassho, J

STLah

(pardon, more than 3 small sentences)

Really beautiful, thank you


Gassho
Horin

Stlah

Enviado desde mi PLK-L01 mediante Tapatalk

[Jundo]

great advice! Practicing compassion is not like training to be compassionate. Every compassionate act performed already IS COMPASSION.

Lovely! This is Master Dogen's teaching of "Practice-Enlightenment," in which every "Buddha-like" act, word or thought of compassion, peace, generosity, equanimity, patience, diligence, kindness and the rest ... IS ... a Buddha realized and brought to life right here, in the doing.

Alas, our acts of greed, anger, violence, jealousy and the like also bring to life something very different.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Risho]

(pardon, more than 3 small sentences)

I will not pardon you good sir!

Gassho

Rish
-stlah