A question or maybe some insight from yall

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  • will
    Member
    • Jun 2007
    • 2331

    A question or maybe some insight from yall

    Why do I feel like I'm taking over the forum sometimes with my posts. I have to work with this reluctance. I feel that some people might not want to post because they feel that other peoples post might be over the head. Or they might feel that their contribution is futile.

    Well, I am one of the avid posters in this place and I can tell you that I am just as full of s**t as the next person. I don't know. Maybe noones full of s**t. Maybe they've got it and I don't. They must have it. I mean they've been doing this Zen thing for so long. Anyway, if anyone does feel like they don't have anything to contribute, don't feel that way. Or maybe your just extremly wise and don't want to bother anyone with your BS. Gassho to you.

    For this post I want to make sure I'm on the right track. ("No I" jokes aside please)

    I've had quite a bit of experiences, delusions,and misunderstandings in practice. Recently I've experienced two types of things. One is utter boredom and great ordinariness. For example: just seeing everything just as it is. Wow, that's a laptop. Great (sarcasm). It used to be a shiny, black, streamlined piece of technological sweetness. A possesion. Now, it's just a laptop. It has a screen, some keys etc. but that streamlined drool is gone. Those used to be oxygenating Zen like bamboo trees, now there just bamboo trees. So, I don't know. I guess you could say that all the cr*p is kind of gone.

    Another is a feeling of openess. A feeling of somewhat joy, and just feeling the hair on my head with my hand. And feeling the skin. Now, I would probably say the feeling is probably just an attachment. Another streamlined experience. Another wow look at that. So I guess what I'm getting at is. Is it that ordinariness that we are shooting for (or not shooting for). Or is it that everything is kind of ordinary, and when we attach say a name or a personal thought towards it, we subjectify it?

    I'd appreciate your insight or suggestions.

    Gassho Will
    [size=85:z6oilzbt]
    To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
    To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
    To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
    To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
    [/size:z6oilzbt]
  • Shindo
    Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 278

    #2
    Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

    Hi Will
    have you considered your attachment to this forum and the views of others?
    Kind regards
    Jools
    [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]

    Comment

    • will
      Member
      • Jun 2007
      • 2331

      #3
      Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

      The begginning of my post was lighthearted Jools and truthful. I'm sorry my post didn't come across that way. I have read previously and talked with people who said they feel they don't have anything to contribute to the forum or that they feel a little afraid of posting.


      Will
      [size=85:z6oilzbt]
      To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
      To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
      To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
      To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
      [/size:z6oilzbt]

      Comment

      • will
        Member
        • Jun 2007
        • 2331

        #4
        Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

        I wasn't speaking to you specifically.

        If that is how everyone feels, then I will just leave. This is a "Sangha" right? btw I do have much free time (I have been on summer vaction for two months), which I use mostly to sit Zazen, post on the forum, and what not. I know I'm full of it. That's what I'm getting to the bottom of.

        Gassho and thankyou
        [size=85:z6oilzbt]
        To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
        To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
        To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
        To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
        [/size:z6oilzbt]

        Comment

        • Shindo
          Member
          • Mar 2008
          • 278

          #5
          Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

          Dear Will
          please do not miscontrue my post. It was kindly meant and a prompt to you to reconsider your reason for posting.
          Kind regards
          Jools
          [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]

          Comment

          • disastermouse

            #6
            Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

            Originally posted by will
            Wow, that's a laptop. Great (sarcasm). It used to be a shiny, black, streamlined piece of technological sweetness. A possesion. Now, it's just a laptop. It has a screen, some keys etc. but that streamlined drool is gone. Those used to be oxygenating Zen like bamboo trees, now there just bamboo trees. So, I don't know. I guess you could say that all the cr*p is kind of gone.
            Good riddance, maybe?

            It's an old saw that you cannot allow your sense of self-worth to rely on others' opinions of you. Even if we all thought you were full of it, you have to start where you are. Everyone begins with great delusion, doubt, and times of despair. It's those qualities that have sustained Zen far more than moments of enlightenment. Dogen was driven by great doubt and confusion.

            I think Zen is a path for those who realize that the jig is up. No more crap, you have to actually look at what you are without thinking you already know. You have to finally look at what's there, because all your stories about what's there have come to the same disappointing ends and you can no longer envision a scheme by which you can attain a happiness from the skillful manipulation of your situation.

            Not that I don't STILL constantly find myself trying to do just that..

            Comment

            • will
              Member
              • Jun 2007
              • 2331

              #7
              Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

              Hi Jools,

              Sorry that I misunderstood your post. I will look at it again.

              Thanks Harry and Chet. I just thought someone might have some guidance or insight. I'm not really sure what a Sangha is for at the moment or a teacher. It may seem that I have had my head on my shoulders previously, but now I am realizing that it was mostly bs and actually had a honest question for the forum. I guess I'll just stop asking question for the moment and just go on with what I've been doing.

              Thanks again

              W
              [size=85:z6oilzbt]
              To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
              To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
              To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
              To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
              [/size:z6oilzbt]

              Comment

              • Hans
                Member
                • Mar 2007
                • 1853

                #8
                Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

                Hello Will,


                I have no idea why other people don't post a lot, I can only tell you why I don't post a lot, in case it interests you. No idea whether you know Anders' (from e-sangha) comic strip signature....it's where some guy sits in front of the computer and his wife (or whoever) is asking him to come to bed....and then he says something like "honey I can't, somebody is WRONG on the internet). That was me for a few years I guess. All those intense discussions over ontological and/or other religious issues have led me personally to a point where I've got my basic set of assumptions,my daily practice and the readiness to drop these assumptions at any given time, should reality hit me with the day-to-day life kyosaku. I know how much one can enjoy deep discussions and wouldn't want to take that away from anyone. However, I feel that all I can offer is just another more or less useful/useless opinion...I simply do not feel any kind of driving force inside that could push me towards sharing too many opinions at this time in my practice. This forum is full of intelligent, sharp witted people who enjoy a good discussion, where arguments are being exchanged and viewpoints are constantly being defended (though it may happen in a civil manner). Very few issues come up these days with regards to my practice, so I guess that I simply have nothing - no opinion or viewpoint - that I wish to defend...guess that's the bottom line of it.

                I just enjoy the fact that there are people out there who consider themselves to be Treeleafers. What I personally consider to be a sangha is a slightly sheltered and nurturing environment that supports my practice (and allows me in turn support the other sangha members) and helps me to apply and reflect the little things I learn in daily life.

                That was just my two cents. Big Gassho,

                Hans

                Comment

                • Stephanie

                  #9
                  Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

                  Will,

                  I extend these thoughts gently, at your prompting. I often get the distinct impression that you are troubled in some way, that you are isolated; this is in contrast with the content of your posts, which usually talk about peace, or happy things. And that this might be why you spend so much time here, that there is some comfort you find here, in talking about the most important thing in your life to other people who prioritize Zen practice and who therefore "get it" on some level. And this is not necessarily a bad thing, but maybe the excessive attention you give to your practice, and to talking about it, is a distraction from something else in your life that isn't so pleasant, or successful?

                  I come here and post a lot precisely because I am deeply troubled on some level, about existence, and I find some measure of support and companionship here that helps me feel like I am not alone.

                  Stephanie

                  Comment

                  • clyde

                    #10
                    Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

                    Will wondered, "I'm not really sure what a Sangha is for at the moment ".
                    Stephanie answered, "I find some measure of support and companionship here".

                    And that's true for those who post and for those who don't post.
                    But I'll offer this poem:

                    Alone, an empty-can-sound,
                    Here, the chatterings of monkeys,
                    Still, no-soul to no-soul,
                    we seek community.

                    clyde

                    Comment

                    • chessie
                      Member
                      • Jun 2008
                      • 266

                      #11
                      Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

                      Fabric weakens where a thread is pulled. Don't go. ann

                      Comment

                      • Shui_Di
                        Member
                        • Apr 2008
                        • 210

                        #12
                        Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

                        hi...

                        sometimes, it's difficult for me to post...
                        Because of the language.....
                        I'm not so expert in English, and some times need to read dictionary while posting or reading...
                        That's why, it takes a lot of my time in reading the thread and make a posting....

                        Gassho, Shuidi
                        Practicing the Way means letting all things be what they are in their Self-nature. - Master Dogen.

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 39457

                          #13
                          Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

                          Thank you, Shui Di, and everyone, for the effort.

                          Shui Di, there is always something about the few words your do find in the dictionary that makes a beautiful sound.

                          Gassho, Jundo
                          '
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                          Comment

                          • will
                            Member
                            • Jun 2007
                            • 2331

                            #14
                            Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

                            I just enjoy the fact that there are people out there who consider themselves to be Treeleafers. What I personally consider to be a sangha is a slightly sheltered and nurturing environment that supports my practice (and allows me in turn support the other sangha members) and helps me to apply and reflect the little things I learn in daily life.
                            Hans. It seems the answers are there if you just let it be. Thank you.

                            I extend these thoughts gently, at your prompting. I often get the distinct impression that you are troubled in some way, that you are isolated; this is in contrast with the content of your posts, which usually talk about peace, or happy things. And that this might be why you spend so much time here, that there is some comfort you find here, in talking about the most important thing in your life to other people who prioritize Zen practice and who therefore "get it" on some level. And this is not necessarily a bad thing, but maybe the excessive attention you give to your practice, and to talking about it, is a distraction from something else in your life that isn't so pleasant, or successful?

                            I come here and post a lot precisely because I am deeply troubled on some level, about existence, and I find some measure of support and companionship here that helps me feel like I am not alone.
                            Stephanie thank you. I don't think it's the fact that something isn't pleasant or successful. I think it's more just confusion, ignorance and misunderstanding. I think my post is probably a little bit of ignorance, and because I'm becoming more human again with feelings and that is kind of scary or confusing.

                            Clyde. Thankyou.

                            Chessie. I'm not not going anywhere, that was just a misunderstanding. Thank you for caring.

                            Shui di. Thanks.

                            I think the best thing to do is just let it be for the moment and not post too much. I am very grateful for the Sangha.

                            Hands palm to palm

                            Will
                            [size=85:z6oilzbt]
                            To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
                            To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
                            To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
                            To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
                            [/size:z6oilzbt]

                            Comment

                            • Dosho
                              Member
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 5784

                              #15
                              Re: A question or maybe some insight from yall

                              Hey Will,

                              First of all, thanks for your honesty and openness. Those of us who aspire to be like that realize that doing so can get your feelings hurt but to do otherwise is a lonely existence.

                              Much of the reason I don't post a lot is because I'm new but also because I'm afraid someone will "shoot down" my post with some piece of wisdom. Sometimes that response is from a person just being a bit of a jerk, but most times it's something I'm not ready to hear (or think I'm not ready to hear) and has nothing to do with their post. But the point is that it's usually impossible to tell the difference and you never know how what you post will hit someone else.

                              The advice I give myself is to just keep posting and let be what will be. It's good advice, but for whatever reason I don't always follow it. Guess that just makes me human.

                              Gassho,
                              Scott

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