SPLIT THREAD: EYE to EYE

[Onka]

Hello Kim
That's interesting - so you sit with eyes fully open and focus on a point - I tried focussing on a point but with eyes 1/3rd open and found it gave me eye strain - I may give it a try with eyes wide open also - something else to consider before I cease considering!
Thanks

Gassho
Scott
sat/lah

I defer to Jundo but sitting with "soft eyes" neither open or shut but just relaxed into a "soft" gaze of sorts towards nothing in particular was how things were explained to me by another teacher when I first sat. I don't know why but "soft eyes" resonated with me but try to keep "soft eyes" from turning into 'I'm asleep now eyes' haha.
Gassho
Anna
stlah

[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

If there is no objection, I will move this conversation off into its own thread.

Personally, I would not sit fixed on a specific point, especially if it is is causing any tension to do so. Folks engaged in certain kinds of concentration meditations often do that, but it is not generally found in Shikantaza. However, if it seems perfectly natural to do that, and you feel that there is some real need, I suppose that it is okay.

Also, if one is at the opposite extreme, and so much trying not to look at anything, such that the eyes go out of focus and it is somehow unnatural, that is not good either.

I usually turn to the "driving down a country road" analogy these days, attentive and alert, but just seeing the whole road out the windscreen. Sometimes one's eyes briefly alight here or there, then return to the road. All is very comfortable and natural. My focus just wanders from point to point to point quite naturally, resting where they rest, on this or that, then moving on when they move on. In fact, the only difference from ordinary seeing is (1) the profound equanimity and putting aside of judgments about what is seen and the whole experience, (2) not getting tangled in long trains of thought about whatever is seen, and (3) the sometimes experience which results that driver and car, road and passing mailboxes, sky and wind are one and whole.

This has come up recently in some other threads ...

Drivin' Dogen - Understanding "Open Spacious Awareness"

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16743-Drivin-Dogen-Understanding-Open-Spacious-Awareness

also here ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16726-A-question-on-open-spacious-awareness&p=236253&viewfull=1#post236253

I sometimes say that here is a picture of a room before Zazen ...



... and seen during Zazen ...



The only differences in not particularly thinking about the ugly sofa or what's going on outside the window, greeting all with equanimity and not latching on. Outside window and inside, sofa and seer are not separate too.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Meian]

"Sometimes one's eyes briefly alight here or there, then return to the road. All is very comfortable and natural. My focus just wanders from point to point to point quite naturally, resting where they rest, on this or that, then moving on when they move on."

This.

Jundo, you expressed it much better than I could. I tend to get tangled up in my yarn of thoughts when I write sometimes. Either that, or I say too little, or nothing at all.

Thank you.

Gassho
Kim
St lh

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

[drew]

I find that if I flair my eyelids open all the way and then let them relax back to partial open. It helps relieve any tension or burning, it also brings me back to present if I'm grabbing a hold of a cloud. I've also found that eyes burn less if I leave my glasses on, which may be caused by the heater blowing during the winter.

Gassho, Drew