SPLIT THREAD: EYE to EYE

[newby_x86]

JUNDO NOTE: A split thread of various questions about the eyes in Zazen, originally from our "We're All Beginners" Series mailbox:

Hi Jundo,

I sometimes find myself drifting off when keeping my gaze on just one point on the wall ahead of me. Is it advisable to look around a little when attention becomes weak from not moving the gaze at all and then bringing it back again. Thanks.

Gassho,
Anant
Sat2day

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo,

... keeping my gaze on just one point on the wall ahead of me. ...

Gassho,
Anant
Sat2day

Oh, don't do that!

Here is an past thread on eyes ...

As I usually say when this subject comes up, I personally am not staring fixedly at a "point" or a dot ... nor am I staring so unfocused that my eyes go blurry. I describe it as "staring at everything and nothing in particular". My eyes take in the room or the floor or wall quiet naturally, but I do not latch onto anything particular I am seeing. "Staring wide eyed into space" may be a good description. Maybe my focus just wanders from point to point to point quite naturally, resting where they rest, on this or that, then moving on when they move on.

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?13811-Eyes-focus-and-sleep&p=162390&viewfull=1#post162390

Is it advisable to look around a little when attention becomes weak from not moving the gaze at all and then bringing it back again. Thanks.

I hope that answers your question, "wander quite naturally, resting where they rest" but not particularly thinking about or judging what I am looking at. Eyes about 1/2 or 1/3 open. Let me know if that helps.

Gassho, Jundo

[newby_x86]

Thanks for the quick response Jundo.

I move my head around the room looking up at the ceiling, the furniture in the room and then bring the gaze back to the wall in front. I suppose that's alright so long as I don't do too much of it? or am I just overthinking this.

Gassho,
Anant

[Jundo]

Thanks for the quick response Jundo.

I move my head around the room looking up at the ceiling, the furniture in the room and then bring the gaze back to the wall in front. I suppose that's alright so long as I don't do too much of it? or am I just overthinking this.

Gassho,
Anant

I think you are overthinking, but not sure why you are looking at ceiling and furniture if facing the wall. If facing the wall, in front of you is just the wall.



Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[newby_x86]

Ok, thanks. Something I need to work on for sure

Gassho,
Anant

[Geika]

I find that bringing my gaze up just a bit makes a big difference if I am drifting off.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Kotei]

I find that bringing my gaze up just a bit makes a big difference if I am drifting off.

Hello,

thank you. I tried it while sitting a sleepy sit and it worked.

Just got my first (long needed) glasses some weeks ago.
Found out, that sitting with glasses (close to the wall) and seeing sharp without effort helps with not drifting off, too.

Gassho,
Kotei sat/lah today.

[Kevin Benbow]

I sat today.

I have a question about the eyes. My eyes are very dry and it is difficult to keep them open with minimal blinking during zazen. Any advice?

Kevin

[Jakuden]

I sat today.

I have a question about the eyes. My eyes are very dry and it is difficult to keep them open with minimal blinking during zazen. Any advice?

Kevin

It is okay to blink if you need to. I have some trouble with dry eyes also, I will sometimes close them for just a bit until they feel better. Sometimes focusing on a particular spot on the wall and letting the offending body part be forgotten is the solution to many of the little irritants!

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH



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[Kevin Benbow]

Thanks so much.

Kevin

[Kevin Benbow]

Jakuden's suggestions for my dry eyes have been very helpful.

I have yet another question about the eyes. I find that if I focus on one spot for an extended period that my eyes lose focus, everything goes white and then they simply refocus. Is it preferable to just let this happen, or is it better to just let the eyes move from spot to spot as they will?

I understand that the idea is to just sit and just accept whatever happens, but I'd like to hear from someone with more experience than me.

Gassho.

Sat today

Klb

[Jakuden]

Jakuden's suggestions for my dry eyes have been very helpful.

I have yet another question about the eyes. I find that if I focus on one spot for an extended period that my eyes lose focus, everything goes white and then they simply refocus. Is it preferable to just let this happen, or is it better to just let the eyes move from spot to spot as they will?

I understand that the idea is to just sit and just accept whatever happens, but I'd like to hear from someone with more experience than me.

Gassho.

Sat today

Klb

Hi Kevin!
I probably should have said “look” at one spot on the wall, rather than “focus” on one spot. Looking is allowing your eyes to naturally look at something without forcing yourself to focus continuously on it. The eyes naturally wander a bit when they are looking. It’s best to forget them, and just be seeing and hearing and feeling and smelling...

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Onka]

Hi Kevin!
I probably should have said “look” at one spot on the wall, rather than “focus” on one spot. Looking is allowing your eyes to naturally look at something without forcing yourself to focus continuously on it. The eyes naturally wander a bit when they are looking. It’s best to forget them, and just be seeing and hearing and feeling and smelling...

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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When I first started sitting I was told to have "soft eyes". Not sure why but it made sense to me to the point where I can see other things going on in my periphery but am softly focused on nothing in particular in front of me while sitting zazen or doing kinhin. Not sure if I've just muddied the waters more or not.
Gassho
Anna

Sat and done

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[Jakuden]

When I first started sitting I was told to have "soft eyes". Not sure why but it made sense to me to the point where I can see other things going on in my periphery but am softly focused on nothing in particular in front of me

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[emoji120] good description Anna!

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Kevin Benbow]

Thanks to both of you!

Gassho.

Sat today