Saying More With Less ...

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 39474

    Saying More With Less ...

    Hi All!

    I love good debates and discussions (don't get me started!!) :wink: I can (and often will) go on all night!

    But a Zen Sangha must be a place primarily of silence. We must talk some about our Practice, but only with great reluctance. We can reason about what we "do". But often, the more we reason and analyze, the further we are from its truths. (In that regard, it is precisely the difference between silence, and talking about silence). A Zen Sangha is an endless silent retreat, with a few words of guidance and encouragement here and there.

    We all have to be careful about getting caught by the racing mind. Ideas are fascinating, but there can be too many sometimes to allow for sound Zen Practice (which requires a solid dose of "quiet" ... a Practice of "non-thinking"). That does not mean that we should do without all words or discussion ... far from it. But we should often keep to a philosophy of "less is more". Do you know that, in Chinese and Japanese painting (like Zen Practice) ... the portion that speaks the greatest truths is empty space?



    The way to practice silence and simplicity is so often silence and simplicity.

    How about I make a suggestion to everybody in the Sangha (except folks who never or infrequently post ... THEY SHOULD POST MORE! ): Cause yourself to skip two out of three postings you wish to make, and answer with silence.

    It is like Mushin's excellent practice of looking for the space between breaths (which I fully support ... just not during Shikantaza). We need to respond to more ideas and questions with silence and simplicity, the spaces between words ... not animated conversations in the hallways. PLEASE DON'T STOP POSTING AND COMMUNICATING (just like we should not stop breathing), keep great thoughts and inspirations coming to be shared by all, but be reserved ... hesitant to speak ... of few words ...

    Sometimes, maybe most times, we can best talk about "Zen" ... and these topics ... with stillness, silence, a Buddha's smile.

    By the way, the foregoing applies to everybody but me ... because every word out of my mouth is pure gold! :shock:

    Am I clear, or have I said too much?

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • lora
    Member
    • Jun 2008
    • 122

    #2
    Re: Saying More With Less ...

    yes









    hee, hee
    lora

    Comment

    • Stephanie

      #3
      Re: Saying More With Less ...

      I was going to reply to this, but I decided not to :wink:

      OMMMM...

      :mrgreen:

      Comment

      • Shindo
        Member
        • Mar 2008
        • 278

        #4
        Re: Saying More With Less ...

        8)
        [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 39474

          #5
          Re: Saying More With Less ...

          Hi Guys,

          I didn't say to be completely quiet. I said to perhaps drop 3 out of 4 (if that is too much ... 2 out of 3 thoughts, sentences, postings ). Answer the rest with silence, with "non-thinking" or complete stillness.

          Whisper more too, and be stingy with the words we must use. Everything in moderation.

          But please don't go away! Please don't stop all the discussions! Even the ink painting has black lines amid the open spaces.

          Gassho, Jundo
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Longdog
            Member
            • Nov 2007
            • 448

            #6
            Re: Saying More With Less ...

            No .... Jundo, .... .... drift.

            .... gassho, Kev
            [url:x8wstd0h]http://moder-dye.blogspot.com/[/url:x8wstd0h]

            Comment

            • Shindo
              Member
              • Mar 2008
              • 278

              #7
              Re: Saying More With Less ...

              Got it Jundo
              - Be nice
              - Keep it short
              - Post less
              Cheers
              Jools :wink:
              [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]

              Comment

              • Shugen
                Treeleaf Unsui
                • Nov 2007
                • 4535

                #8
                Re: Saying More With Less ...

                Meido Shugen
                明道 修眼

                Comment

                • roky
                  Member
                  • Jul 2008
                  • 311

                  #9
                  Re: Saying More With Less ...

                  i knew from retreats that just one conversation would reverberate thru my head for days -- i would reherse my weekly 15 minute interview w/teacher during the week-- maddening!

                  but what i didn't know, til now, is that the forum has the same effect on me -- so i started posting less, which isn't easy, cause the discussions are so interesting -- and when i "need" to say something, i've been composing it, then deleting it -- feels great!

                  and i really enjoy sitting with others in the zen hall, which is its own special form of communication -- think i sat with will the other day -- hi will

                  gassho, bob
                  "no resistance"
                  thaddeus golas

                  Comment

                  • Damian
                    Member
                    • Jan 2008
                    • 84

                    #10
                    Re: Saying More With Less ...

                    I have not posted much at all... but probably should more, I like to wait and see how things turn out as I feel that opinions are just that... opinions. I have learned so much here by just keeping quiet. but I have no gauge if what believe is "true" without feedback and guidance from others. So I am one of the opposites that Jundo refers to. Anyway Hello all, and hopefully I can come out of my shell.

                    Gassho,
                    Damian

                    Comment

                    • Shindo
                      Member
                      • Mar 2008
                      • 278

                      #11
                      Re: Saying More With Less ...

                      Much told Zen story

                      ....... where a monk is only allowed to speak once every 10 years.
                      After first 10 years novice monk says "food cold"
                      After second 10 years novice monk says "bed hard"
                      After thirty years monk says "Food still cold bed still hard I'm leaving"
                      The Master of the Monastery says
                      "Thats OK all he ever did was complain.."
                      Jools
                      [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]

                      Comment

                      • Kent
                        Member
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 193

                        #12
                        Re: Saying More With Less ...

                        I don't post often and when i do it's brief. i subscribe to the KISS principle......Keep It Simple Sangha Kent

                        Comment

                        • will
                          Member
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 2331

                          #13
                          Re: Saying More With Less ...

                          Bob
                          think i sat with will the other day -- hi will
                          Hi Bob, but I don't think that was me. I haven't been in the Zen hall for a couple of weeks.



                          Gassho Will
                          [size=85:z6oilzbt]
                          To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
                          To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
                          To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
                          To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
                          [/size:z6oilzbt]

                          Comment

                          • Dainin
                            Member
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 389

                            #14
                            Re: Saying More With Less ...

                            Gassho

                            Comment

                            • undeceivable
                              Member
                              • May 2008
                              • 35

                              #15
                              Re: Saying More With Less ...

                              I feel that when I'm ready for something, I'll do it. And until then I'll just carry on doing what I always do...
                              Is that just because I'm stubborn?

                              A bid to keep a bit more silence might work for a while, but unless people are really ready to do it, it won't be long-term...
                              Does that matter? Is it not better to just let people think and write until they run out of stuff to think and write? I dunno! All I know is, I'd hate to be a zen teacher. You've got to be confident in your opinions...

                              My understanding is limited of people's choices, why people do what they do, and the internal mechanisms of change, so I don't know whether this idea is a good idea or not.

                              But for me, personally,as long as there are still people to sit with in the Zendo, treeleaf is a nice place to be
                              [color=#4080FF:avauok9l][size=80:avauok9l]"Do not be deceived"[/size:avauok9l][/color:avauok9l]

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