A Bit of a Crisis as a Young Practitioner

[Embodiments]

Hello, I am not 100% sure that this is the right place and content for here, so please let me know if it isn't. And sorry about the length.

Recently I have become very conflicted and confused about the many things I have been reading about Buddhism. It seems to me that depending on who you ask, you will always get a very different answer on just about any topic in Buddhism, almost certainly seeming to be contradictory to each other. It seems that this problem or my attempts to solve it (searching for answers) are causing me a very large amount of suffering at the moment. I feel completely lost and have no idea where to go from here. Whether to stop reading for a bit or to try to let go of these thoughts, because currently my desire is to leave Buddhism and indulge in sensory pleasures as a form of escapism. In a word, I would call it despair.

As an example of this, something that I don't understand is the celibate monastic practices that are common. If one wants to save all beings (Bodhisattva), then surely they would advise others to take up their practice, no? But taken to its logical conclusion, if everyone became monastic Buddhists, there would be the extinguishing of all people. It seems that there are certain Buddhists (maybe all or most?) that view birth as a cause of suffering to the point that they say it should be avoided to stop said suffering. Taken to all things, the only way to end all suffering, would be to end all the things capable of suffering, but this seems to be at odds with the impermanence and inter-connectedness of all things. A quote summarizing this idea is:

"Buddha states his propositions in the pedantic style of his age. He throws them into a form of sorites; but, as such, it is logically faulty and all he wishes to convey is this: Oblivious of the suffering to which life is subject, man begets children, and is thus the cause of old age and death. If he would only realize what suffering he would add to by his act, he would desist from the procreation of children; and so stop the operation of old age and death."

H. Singh Gour, The Spirit of Buddhism, Whitefish, Montana: Kessinger Publishing, 2005, pp. 286–288.

Is this a mis-interpretation of the Dharma? If it is how can one distinguish between what is and isn't, given that Buddhists seem to have similar conflicts almost everywhere? It seems that Kosho Uchiyama would be directly against this if I understand his teachings. Even reading within Soto Zen it seems clear that at least Dogen and Kosho Uchiyama are quite vocal in their disagreements with other views within Buddhism. Another thing I've noticed is that it seems almost that when Zen teachers write, they have a different standard from when they speak. In "Opening the Hand of Thought" by Kosho Uchiyama, as I read, it appeared that what was asked was the impossible and full of the striving that caused me to suffer so much that I came to Buddhism. Perhaps these things are simply too soon for me?

But in reading someone a bit more contemporary/secular like Brad Warner and in the videos of the beginner's series I have seen from Jundo, there isn't what felt to me as an attitude of "All the way, or nothing" that I felt in reading the older writers. I can't imagine it's healthy to compare myself with the standard that practitioners of many many years set themselves to as a goal they know they cannot ever truly reach (at least that's how I interpreted it).

All in all, I ask this: In guiding myself down this path, with others help, I cannot tell what should be my focus. In zazen these issues don't come up, only the letting go of thoughts. Zazen seems to me completely separated from all of the stuff I have written above. Would it be wise to sit zazen without reading for a while? When Jundo talks about taking this practice, or zazen, out into the world, does that life look more like the one I have now, or the one these practitioners have set out to create? Do I change my life to fit Buddhism, or does Buddhism naturally change my life as I practice? If I am lost on my path, how do I find my way back?

I'm sure I've mis-interpreted many things in this post and could be very off, please let me know if this is the case.

Thank You,
Joshua
Sat Today

[Shinshi]

Hi Joshua,

Others will come along with a more authoritative answer. My short answer would be: more sitting, less thinking (reading).

Your post brought to mind a story that I haven't thought of in a long time. When I searched for it I was surprised to learn that it can be found in a Buddhist text. Anyway it is the story of the Blind Men and the Elephant. This is borrowed from the Wikipedia page:

A group of blind men heard that a strange animal, called an elephant, had been brought to the town, but none of them were aware of its shape and form. Out of curiosity, they said: "We must inspect and know it by touch, of which we are capable".

So, they sought it out, and when they found it they groped about it. In the case of the first person, whose hand landed on the trunk, said "This being is like a thick snake".

For another one whose hand reached its ear, it seemed like a kind of fan.

As for another person, whose hand was upon its leg, said, the elephant is a pillar like a tree-trunk.

The blind man who placed his hand upon its side said the elephant, "is a wall".

Another who felt its tail, described it as a rope.

The last felt its tusk, stating the elephant is that which is hard, smooth and like a spear.

The Dharma is a complex thing and as soon as a person tries to start describing it our language limits our ability to communicate it completely. And sometimes people find a path that works for them, but then think it is the only path. And people start to argue about the best path and so on. All of it reflects parts of the truth. But sometimes it is hard to perceive the whole elephant.

If you try to reconcile all of the teachings of Buddhism you are in for a life long task I think. Probably best to start with understanding one that resonates with you.

But mostly just sit more and think less.

That is what I think today.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Embodiments]

Hello Shinshi,

Thank you so much for your reply. I will do the best I can to implement this.

Gassho, Joshua
Sat Today

P.S. The elephant story was very illuminating.

[Jundo]

HI Joshua,

Like any religion, philosophy, political view or recipe on the right way to cook chicken soup, there are people who interpret things differently. So what? Some people use more salt than others, some people are more conservative or insistent on certain rules than others. That is what human beings do. Find the path that is right for Joshua! Don't get so confused by the different opinions, because it is just people who have different viewpoints. I don't know which is right, because my path might be right for me but wrong for somebody else (and their path may be wrong from me).

Rome wasn't built in a day, so don't expect to figure out the entire 2500 year history of Buddhism (and 1500 year history of Zen Buddhism as part of that history) in a few weeks. What's the rush?

Let me recommend a couple of books for you that are easy to read, and give a nice overview (my reviews below).

On the celibacy, some Buddhist priests are celibate and some are not (it is like Catholic priests and Protestant priests that way). However, the Buddha never said that EVERYONE should be celibate, precisely for the reasons you mention. Japanese priests marry, Chinese and Thai priests are celibate, but non-ordained people are generally not celibate everywhere. One does not need to be celibate to benefit from Buddhism, and different people have different paths to walk.

Finally, WHERE did you find this book "The Spirit Of Buddhism" by Hari Singh Gour? As far as I can tell, that book was written about 90 years ago (1929 to be exact) by a Hindu intellectual from India, and is not exactly a modern or objective analysis. i would not consider that my go to source for information about Buddhism.

Let's chat more.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

• Buddhism For Dummies by Jonathan Landaw & Stephan Bodian (Jundo: I have been looking for a very long time for a book for people very new to Buddhism who want to know basic information and all the many flavors of Buddhist schools, their beliefs and practices. Despite the silly title, this is a very smart, well written, comprehensive and detailed yet easy (and fun) to read, humorous and serious guide, covers most of the major bases and in quite some detail, gives fair treatment to the many flavors of Buddhism, is very down to earth about the more magical aspects of Buddhism (it tries to present a more psychological than literal take on Karma and Rebirth, for example) .... and it covers everything and the kitchen sink. I learned a thing or two. I just wish they would change the title. If I have one criticism, I wish they had done a better job in contrasting the various approaches of Zen. I recommend this book primarily for people very new to Buddhism in general.)
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...................**

• Simple Guide to Zen Buddhism by Diana St. Ruth (Jundo: For folks who are completely new, puzzled and perplexed about Zen Buddhism's history and practices of various flavors. It is detailed in its explanation, balanced and quite comprehensive in the many topics it covers. I would not recommend the book for anyone who had been practicing for even a few months, but it may still answer some questions and be good to give to your dad or sister who is completely confused by what we are doing here ... and may think that we are wearing bed sheets while dancing in drum circles with the Dalai Lama during the Soltice. As with any book, it is not perfect. It could still do even a better job in explaining the various different approaches of Soto and Rinzai, Koan Centered Zazen and Shikantaza ... but they are touched upon. But compared to most other books on the subject, it is well researched, comprehensive, very balanced and gets it right.)

[Embodiments]

Hello Jundo,

Thank you for the clear reply. To clarify on the quote I used, I actually had not read the book (I couldn't even find it). I probably should have said that in my post. I was looking around on the topic of celibacy and saw the natural outcome if everyone was celibate, and found a wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism on a philosophical idea a friend of mine had brought up. The quote is from there, I thought it couldn't be right, but I had no external evidence to say it was wrong from a sutra or Buddhist teacher.

Thank you for the book recommendations, I will be sure to read them. They seem to be a good contrast to the less directed and tradition specific books I have been reading recently. I will also take to mind Shinshi's wonderful advice and try to "mostly just sit more and think less." Even for all the conflicts it brought me, "Opening the Hand of Thought" was a wonderful book and clarified many of the things I didn't understand, as were the several I read off of your recommended list.

It was from a lot of looking around through Buddhism that I eventually came to Soto Zen, zazen, and Treeleaf and I'm really happy that I did.

Gassho, Joshua
Sat Today

[Junkyo]

Hi Joshua!

I think that the state of confusion you are experiencing is very common for people who are new to Buddhism. I know that I sure experienced it when I first began to study and practice!

The best advise that I was ever given (note that I had to hear it from more than one person before listening!) was to read less, practice (sit) more. Now after a decade I have certainly read many books, text books, sutras, gathas etc. But my practice is simply to sit.

Now when I encounter (both online, and in "real" life) newcomers to Buddhism, I pass along the same advice I was given. Understand the 4 noble truths and the 8 Fold path, and sit. In fact don't even worry about the other stuff, just sit. The rest comes when it comes!

Gassho,

Junkyo
SAT

[Kokuu]

Hi Joshua!

Yes, it is really confusing at first! There are so many different Buddhist traditions and even then different teachers within the traditions don't always agree!

Some people are very keen on having arguments over philosophy and definitions. A lot of these end up going nowhere and are not very helpful. Internet groups contain a multitude of voices from the newest students to experienced teachers. Not everything that is said is based in a correct understanding of Buddhist teachings and it can be hard to differentiate the truth from speculation.

Sitting is a much better way to ground yourself in the tradition and as you read more and absorb teachings directly from teachers, you start to get your own feel for things.

Really, you could practice just with a few books. Most of us like to read a bit deeper but there are some really good ones picked out in our reading list as especially suitable for beginners (and that does not mean they are simple or lacking in depth) which should help a lot. Books like Opening the Hand of Thought are great as they focus on practice.

If you have any questions of things you hear elsewhere, you are always welcome to bring them up here. That is not to say that we will give you a definitive answer, but we tend to be a pretty moderate voice and can at least help to untangle some of the complexity and extreme views.

If you read something and don't understand or don't feel ready for it, it is completely fine to put it down and go back to it at a later date. Or not at all! You do not need to be able to engage in debates with all and sundry but instead find a way of practicing that works for you.

Great you have found your way here!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Ryudo]

If you read something and don't understand or don't feel ready for it, it is completely fine to put it down and go back to it at a later date. Or not at all! You do not need to be able to engage in debates with all and sundry but instead find a way of practicing that works for you.

Thank you Kokuu,
Often I don’t understand what seems to be simple to others when reading essays, texts and books that are presented and recommended in our Sangha. Or even written by Jundo, the Unsui or other Treeleafers that are more educated ...
Lately I try not to feel stupid and let the things I don’t understand keep their mystery after all there are many mysteries on our path and in a way that is part of the practice for me.
“Shikantaza/just sitting” is the heart of my practice together with the precepts.
Sure, I read too, but the simple teachings are the ones that reach me (my heart) the most. The more academic ones often just make me feel humble, witch is good too.
Thank you again,
Thank you all.

Gassho/SatToday

[Geika]

I used to get very confused, but after a while I limited my study of practice to just Soto Zen, and then eventually to just what we study here as a sangha and what Jundo recommends. Because Jundo is the teacher I chose, I defer my confusion to him. I feel that nothing was lost, and the essential was what remained.

Gassho

Sat today, lah

[Jakuden]

Hi Joshua!

One of the most helpful teachings I have had here from our Jundo Roshi is that even all the conflict and confusion we experience is whole. ALL of those seemingly contradictory aspects of Buddhism you mentioned can be as they are, and yet they are still just leaves on a tree, and the tree is the leaves and the leaves are the tree. Not Two. If you sit Zazen, you sit with everything that is, and the truth is that all of those conflicting viewpoints are just fingers trying to point at a moon that can’t be adequately explained in words. So sometimes just sit and drop all the words [emoji4] Then go back to reading the stuff Jundo suggests you read.

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Shinshi]

Hi Joshua!

One of the most helpful teachings I have had here from our Jundo Roshi is that even all the conflict and confusion we experience is whole. ALL of those seemingly contradictory aspects of Buddhism you mentioned can be as they are, and yet they are still just leaves on a tree, and the tree is the leaves and the leaves are the tree. Not Two. If you sit Zazen, you sit with everything that is, and the truth is that all of those conflicting viewpoints are just fingers trying to point at a moon that can’t be adequately explained in words. So sometimes just sit and drop all the words [emoji4] Then go back to reading the stuff Jundo suggests you read.

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Tai Do]

Hi Joshua,

I think everybody here gave you great answers and I will not repeat the arguments, but, as someone who studies and teaches Philosophy professionally, I have to add a little observation that can, perhaps, clarify your thinking.

You wrote:

As an example of this, something that I don't understand is the celibate monastic practices that are common. If one wants to save all beings (Bodhisattva), then surely they would advise others to take up their practice, no? But taken to its logical conclusion, if everyone became monastic Buddhists, there would be the extinguishing of all people.

Your conclusion here is not as logical as you might think. This form of thinking in Moral Philosophy is called universalization: you take some good action or rule and universalize it, as you did. If lying is wrong then nobody should ever lie; if celibacy is good, then everybody should be celibate.

For your conclusion above to be logical you must accept the hidden premise of universalization: “Every good action and every good rule ought to be followed by everyone independently of the situation”.

But this is a very controversial kind of moral reasoning. In fact, it’s a form of reasoning that only became accepted after Kant. So kantian and kantiano influenced ethics (like many of modern moral thinking) accept universalization. But other moral systems don’t accept it. Asian and Ancient Greek ethics, for exemple, don’t use the strategy of universalization and some thinkers in these traditions even openly reject it altogether.

Buddhism, and especially Mahayana Buddhism, don’t go well with universalization. The very idea of skillful means depends on the rejection of universalization. And, in the specific case of celibacy, even the Pali sutras and the Chinese Agamas are clear in stating that the Sangha is to have not only ordained monks and nuns, but also laypeople. There are instances of non celibate laypeople who became enlightened in the Pali Canon. So even the Theravada Buddhism rejects the idea that only celibate monks can became enlightened. More so in Mahayana Buddhism.

Hope I could be of use to you.

Gassho,
Mateus
Sat today/LAH

[Onka]

Hi Joshua
I'm a new practitioner and even newer member of Treeleaf Sangha.
My brain's unique design features make it a challenge on the best of days to filter out the brilliance from the bullshit.
I ended up here (Soto Zen Buddhism) after reading a Brad Warner book and then here (Treeleaf - my home Sangha) thanks to the environment Jundo has created.
In all honesty I've read very little and I can't ever see myself as becoming incredibly well read on Buddhism as a scholarly subject so for me I do what Shinshi suggested - sit more and read less.
I couldn't begin to explain to you my lived experience or how I ended up at this point but for me, this works... For me.
I already know I'm committed and already know that I will take/receive the Precepts and I know that this journey will entail me to read many things as guided by Jundo but it will always be my Zazen practice that will be central to my Buddhist life.
Be kind to yourself Joshua.
Gassho
Anna



Sat today Lent a hand

[Jishin]

A Bit of a Crisis as a Young Practitioner

Hi Joshua,

Relax.

IMG_0065.jpg

Gasho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Hensho]

Joshua:

One more thought, because so many of us can relate to your experience. . .

. . . about a month after I joined Treeleaf, as an absolute beginner, I became as muddled as you over quite the same thing: conflicting ideas from what I'd been reading. I shared this with Treeleaf, and Jundo said the same thing to me: just sit.

So I did. I abandoned everything and just sat. In two months, it will be a year of just sitting.

What I learned is that our Soto Zen practice is bodily. Everything must be grounded by the sitting.

This is not a rejection of intellectualism. It is a different way of encountering thought. Buddhism begins with the sitting. It is sitting.

That's not to say that I haven't pondered issues along the way (I had a brief muddle over tiny buddhas, for example... you can read the posts...), but now I take it all back into the sitting. I try to let the sitting guide the knowing. I just sit, and I am a Buddhist.

With a deep bow to you,
Kate

SAT/lah