Brave new (zen) world?

[Jundo]

I came across a talk by philosopher Nick Bostrom, one of the smartest folks out there on topics such as the future of AI, virtual reality and the like. It is a bit of a scary talk when he gets to the part about AI expanding beyond human control but, at they end, he proposes as about the only solution something which will be a theme of my book: Teaching certain values to the AI so deeply within its programming that it will not act in ways contrary to human interest. He does not mention Buddhism in his talk, but my book will introduce Buddhist values as being very close to just such values, e.g, not harming fellow sentient beings (specifically, us), not allowing fellow sentient beings to suffer, and the like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnT1xgZgkpk

Nick Bostrom is Professor in the Faculty of Philosophy at Oxford University and founding Director of the Future of Humanity Institute and of the Programme on the Impacts of Future Technology within the Oxford Martin School.

Bostrom has a background in physics, computational neuroscience, and mathematical logic as well as philosophy. He is the author of some 200 publications, including Anthropic Bias (Routledge, 2002), Global Catastrophic Risks (ed., OUP, 2008), and Human Enhancement (ed., OUP, 2009), and the book Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies (OUP, 2014). He is best known for his work in five areas: (i) existential risk; (ii) the simulation argument; (iii) anthropics (developing the first mathematically explicit theory of observation selection effects); (iv) impacts of future technology; and (v) implications of consequentialism for global strategy.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jundo]

The world of 1999 as seen in 1967 ... I will give em an 80%

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fro_xPdj5E

Just to note that the house shown at the start of the above film for 1967 (30 second mark), and the 3-D printed Mars house that NASA revealed today as a prototype ... just sayin' ...



Gassho, J

STLah

[Gero]

Being quite hesitant about putting my neck out on this topic, I'll now try to add my thoughts to all the opposition we are giving Jundo Sensei on his ideas. Sorry Sensei!

MAKING CHOICES
this is what makes the big difference to me. Is not AI considered to be truly an independent individual once it makes true choices instead of just going through if-then algorithms?
At least to me it is of the utmost impotance that we determine our lives by our choices. Should I sit on my zafu or in front of the tv? Will I eat these calories or not? In my eyes death penalty is the worst possible answer to dealing with crime, as it robs the criminal of the chance to make choices, i.e. to repent, atone (or whatever the right words might be in English, sorry!).

To program or pharmaceutically change the wiring of our mind is robbing us of our own choices. Sure, we are programmed in so many ways (upbringing, media preferences and so on) as it is now. Having someone else design the drugs for my moral behaviour is giving up on making my own choices. To me this is the opposite of a desirable future.

What would my utopia be like? It would include free education, abolishment of any censorship and the encouragement to try new ideas.

Just my 2 cents. Hope my ramblings made sense to anyone outside my head.
Though Jundo Sensei's ideas seem dystopian to me, I am thrilledto read more. One important freedom to me is being able to choose a change of mind. Perhaps he will convince me in his book?

[Jundo]

Being quite hesitant about putting my neck out on this topic, I'll now try to add my thoughts to all the opposition we are giving Jundo Sensei on his ideas. Sorry Sensei!

MAKING CHOICES
this is what makes the big difference to me. Is not AI considered to be truly an independent individual once it makes true choices instead of just going through if-then algorithms?
At least to me it is of the utmost impotance that we determine our lives by our choices. Should I sit on my zafu or in front of the tv? Will I eat these calories or not? In my eyes death penalty is the worst possible answer to dealing with crime, as it robs the criminal of the chance to make choices, i.e. to repent, atone (or whatever the right words might be in English, sorry!).

To program or pharmaceutically change the wiring of our mind is robbing us of our own choices. Sure, we are programmed in so many ways (upbringing, media preferences and so on) as it is now. Having someone else design the drugs for my moral behaviour is giving up on making my own choices. To me this is the opposite of a desirable future.

What would my utopia be like? It would include free education, abolishment of any censorship and the encouragement to try new ideas.

Just my 2 cents. Hope my ramblings made sense to anyone outside my head.
Though Jundo Sensei's ideas seem dystopian to me, I am thrilledto read more. One important freedom to me is being able to choose a change of mind. Perhaps he will convince me in his book?

I would say that it may only be "compulsory" for convicted, violent criminals just as now, when prison is not a choice for such wrongdoers.

For the rest, it will all be by voluntary choice, just as people today choose, of their own free will, to drink a beer, buy a pair of shoes, sit Zazen, take an anti-depressant, take a valium or an opoid in order to feel a little better, more peaceful, more loving, more at home in life. The difference from the beer or opoid is that the measures I describe will both make people feel better AND actually will leave them healthier and better. However, no compulsion, just free market choice of what brings pleasure, peace or a sense of well-being. No guns to someone's head, no tricks, just like choosing to have plastic surgery, or to buy a puppy or to study Buddhism by one's own free choice.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Getchi]

Gassho,

Thankyou Jundo and all for this talk, and let us never forget Dogen's maxim "To study the Buddha-way is to study the self..."

Ill just leave this here ; https://www.businessinsider.com/micr...8-1/?r=AU&IR=T

If its behind a paywall, the basic ideas are outlined here ; http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201...ou-up-for-life

And here is my favourite quote ; "At one level, AI will require that even more people specialize in digital skills and data science. But skilling-up for an AI-powered world involves more than science, technology, engineering, and math. As computers behave more like humans, the social sciences and humanities will become even more important. Languages, art, history, economics, ethics, philosophy, psychology and human development courses can teach critical, philosophical and ethics-based skills that will be instrumental in the development and management of AI solutions." - Microsoft president Brad Smith and EVP of AI and research Harry Shum.


As long as humanity exists, I believe we will face the exact same issues outlined in all the wonderful posts above - but please remember to not get up OR down over it - I do believe we have been facing these issues for the last million years of human life; and will do so well into the future.


Gassho,
Geoff.

SatToday,
LaH.

[Chet]

I use iAwake sound technology stuff sometimes. It's not the same as shikantaza, but it has its place.

I've also had success with EMDR and I have a friend who has used EEG to good effect.

Some of this is more psychology than spirituality, but it's hard to find the line between those sometimes.

[Jundo]

l happened to finish the last chapter of my new book manuscript "ZEN of the FUTURE!" today (advocating a "Lessite" but not a completely "Luddite" stance for Zen folks of the future), when this was in the news: AND SO lT BEGlNS:

Elon Musk wants to hook your brain directly up to computers — starting next year

Elon Musk, the futurist billionaire behind SpaceX and Tesla, outlined his plans to connect humans' brains directly to computers on Tuesday night, describing a campaign to create "symbiosis with artificial intelligence." He said the first prototype could be implanted in a person by the end of next year.

Arriving at that goal "will take a long time," Musk said in a presentation at the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco, noting that securing federal approval for implanted neural devices is difficult. But testing on animals is already underway, and "a monkey has been able to control the computer with his brain," he said.

Musk founded Neuralink Corp. in July 2016 to create "ultra-high bandwidth brain-machine interfaces to connect humans and computers."

... Musk said Tuesday, will require finding a way for the brain to "merge" with AI, most likely through tiny wireless chips implanted in the brain through a 2-millimeter incision to create what he called "some sort of symbiosis with artificial intelligence," with a goal of no less than securing "humanity's future as a civilization relative to AI." https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/tech/el...xt-ncna1030631

Gassho, J

STLah

[Kendrick]

"If the technology does come to fruition (and it seems that a lot of it is no longer just science fiction) then we had better use it well."

This seems to be the very important take-away of this topic for me. I wouldn't say I would openly support altering people's minds to bottleneck them into certain behaviors (especially if it could make them feel physical pain of illness if they went against the grain) but if it's going to happen anyway I would rather that be the case than the opposite being programmed into people - making fearless, relentlessly violent military servicemen for example; or enslaving a population from birth with complete passivity. With the typical direction of leadership choices in the world I think it would most likely go one of those harmful routes - afterall, people without any of that programming/alteration would be the one making the initial decision to program everyone else..

The main qualm with this type of thing, even if it resulted in less harm in the world in the usual sense we think of harm, what would be "new" harm be? And what would be the point or value of making good decisions if we really didn't have that control over making that choice? Karmic actions are based on intent.. if you remove the true option of choice from someone, basically programming them to make a certain action the majority of the time if not every time, then is there really intent behind it? I would say no. It would basically make all action Neutral Karma - on the level of breathing and blinking. That would basically place humans in a realm below animal and basically on the level of plant life. Biologically we would be functioning and moving around but it wouldn't be with any true intent; just as a plant would grow, or bloom, or turn its leaves in response to rain humans would be walking around doing kind acts thoughtlessly. From a Buddhist perspective - wouldn't that mean, that without true choice and without real intent (with little control) we wouldn't be able to create Positive Karma? Without that would it be impossible to progress if your actions were simply automatic rather than based on understanding built from experience - wisdom? And.. what of creating a new form of suffering; where one is born into a body they don't truly control, basically a slave of the mind created for them that they have no ability to change on their own?

The idea of balance in life would seem to be thrown off. Without the possibility for the bad, is there any more good left?

Gassho
Kendrick
SAT

[Tairin]

Elon Musk, the futurist billionaire behind SpaceX and Tesla, outlined his plans to connect humans' brains directly to computers on Tuesday night, describing a campaign to create "symbiosis with artificial intelligence." He said the first prototype could be implanted in a person by the end of next year.

Pass


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Amelia]

Anyone ever seen "Ghost in the Shell"? The original anime. It is a lot about this... also, in the show, you can get hacked, and have someone mess with what you see or think... but really, it's all illusion anyway, right? However, it is a no thanks from me!

Gassho, sat today lah

[Jundo]

Yep. It would require one heck of a firewall. Norton Antivirus in the cortex. And those pop-up windows!

Gassho, J

STLah

PS - If anyone is wondering, my book does not advocated hooking the brain directly to the internet. However, there will be all manner of interfaces that will come close in the future. PS - If anyone is wondering, my book does not advocated hooking the brain directly to the internet (It would require one heck of a firewall. Norton Antivirus in the cortex. And those pop-up windows! ). However, there will be all manner of interfaces that will come close in the future. Brain implants will be used for a variety of purposes which could range from treatment of brain diseases to increasing intelligence or learning to regulating some harmful behavior like tendencies to violence

[Shonin Risa Bear]

I am reminded of E. F. Schumacher's take on Buddhist Economics, from the '60s. https://centerforneweconomics.org/pu...ist-economics/

He was a Catholic Distributist (movement that included Catholic Worker and G. K. Chesterton) but IIRC, felt that casting his essay as Buddhist would reach a wider audience.

gassho
doyu sat/lah today

[lorax]

Ouch hurts my mind. Guess the positive thing is Getchi's comment: "but please remember to not get up OR down over it - I do believe we have been facing these issues for the last million years of human life; and will do so well into the future."

SAT TODAY

[Shinshi]

Anyone ever seen "Ghost in the Shell"? The original anime. It is a lot about this... also, in the show, you can get hacked, and have someone mess with what you see or think... but really, it's all illusion anyway, right? However, it is a no thanks from me!

Gassho, sat today lah

Somewhere in the barn I have it on VHS. Much better than the live action version.


Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Ryumon]

Yep. It would require one heck of a firewall. Norton Antivirus in the cortex. And those pop-up windows!

Because the last thing you want there is to be infected by ransomware. :-o

Gassho,

Kirk