Joriki in Soto

[Mitka]

So among the books about Zen that I was reading a year ago, the one that led me here, ironically enough, was Three Pillars of Zen by Phillip Kapleau. Since then I have learned the differences between this community and the kind of practice represented in this book. But I was wondering one thing. They talk a lot about joriki, or concentration, in the book, and how it is necessary to cultivate to achieve an opening of the mind. Now, understanding that the Soto sect isn't so much concerned at attaining a Great Awakening, unlike the Zen portrated in Kapleau's book... is there yet still some use for joriki in shikantaza?

What is the Soto account of joriki?

[Shinshi]

So among the books about Zen that I was reading a year ago, the one that led me here, ironically enough, was Three Pillars of Zen by Phillip Kapleau. Since then I have learned the differences between this community and the kind of practice represented in this book. But I was wondering one thing. They talk a lot about joriki, or concentration, in the book, and how it is necessary to cultivate to achieve an opening of the mind. Now, understanding that the Soto sect isn't so much concerned at attaining a Great Awakening, unlike the Zen portrated in Kapleau's book... is there yet still some use for joriki in shikantaza?

What is the Soto account of joriki?

There is a thread about it here:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15048-Joriki

HTH

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Mitka]

There is a thread about it here:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15048-Joriki

HTH

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

Hey thanks Shinshi, I should have done a title search first.

Gassho,

Matthew

SAT

[Shinshi]

Hey thanks Shinshi, I should have done a title search first.

Gassho,

Matthew

SAT

Glad to help. And I think it is often good to revisit a topic. Maybe some new perspectives will come up.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Jakuden]

It’s interesting to reread this! I’m glad Jundo helped me to let go of this obstacle, which probably stemmed from all the years in college trying to figure out how to study harder [emoji12] Maybe I’m still not concentrating hard enough, as I have yet to levitate!

Seriously though, I once thought that Shikantaza would perhaps train my brain and reverse my attention issues. It has helped, but not in the way I envisioned, (which was that I would somehow have more power and control over my mind). Instead, it has helped by reducing the resistance and negative thought patterns that obstruct the focus and effort. Which is basically exactly what Jundo says in that thread, about dropping resistance.

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

There is a thread about it here:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?15048-Joriki

HTH

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

Thank you for finding that.

I will add one small footnote. These past weeks I have been helping my daughter learn to ride a bike and get up on inline skates. When she was tense and "trying," she struggled. When she fully relaxed, let things be, put the struggle down, let natural balance happen ... she just rolled. There is some commonality to our Practice. The less we try and the less we force, a natural center point is attained.

It is, however, a center point so centered that it stays up on both sunny days and the days when life tosses at us the greatest wind or rain. It is the center of a hurricane. It is a center point so centered that it is centered both on the days when we feel "centered" and centered even on the days when we feel off center and off balance (much as the moon is still present on both clear days when seen and cloudy or stormy days when hidden and we just must have faith that the moon is still there).

Even more, it is a "staying up" that sometimes can fall right off the bike ... it is not only "good riding" when staying up ... because there is no place to fall (no place where the moon "goes" when it vanishes). Being on the skates and sometimes tumbling off are all good skating. This is the Koan of Zazen.

Many types of meditation are said to work only when one reaches a certain state, feels in the "Zone" or attains a deep samadhi concentration. Shikantaza is not quite so, although all that happens too. Sometimes the moon is seen, sometimes not, sometimes the light shines right through the clouds as one. All the same light of the moon. Thus, don't think that this "balance" is only the times that we feel balance, don't think that this "balance" is only when we keep balance, but keep faith that the moon always shines. A moment of Zazen is a moment of the moonlight shining, seen or unseen or both seen and unseen at once.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Geika]

Nice metaphor for trying too hard: learning to ride skates or a bike. I remember learning to ride a unicycle when I was about fourteen, "trying" and "trying" and being unable to go more than a few feet before jumping off. I gave up off and on for weeks until I decided to "try" one more time and somehow ended up going all the way up the block. I didn't try anything different, but I had let go of the idea of getting anywhere and somehow my body just took off.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Ryudo]

A moment of Zazen is a moment of the moonlight shining, seen or unseen or both seen and unseen at once.

Ryudo/SatToday

[martyrob]

Thank you Matthew for raising this question, Shinshi is right: it's good to re-visit these questions now and again. I remember the original thread, although I had forgotten it and Jakuden raised an interesting point as you have also and it's really useful to return to this subject.
There's a rich layer of mulch at the bottom of this Treeleaf which is good to fork over ever so often to reveal these little gems. Thanks everyone.

Martyn
Sat today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jakuden]

There's a rich layer of mulch at the bottom of this Treeleaf which is good to fork over ever so often to reveal these little gems.

This is so true!

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk