Cosmic mudra issues

[Rich]

Hey, just relax, accept all the sensations, and relax again [emoji4]

SAT
[emoji119][emoji120]🤝

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[Tairin]

There’s a great image of the Cosmic Mudra that Jundo posted in this thread that shows what Geika was referring to for form. https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/show...l=1#post207164




Tairin
Sat today & LAH

[Mumeido Grundy]

I sometimes find, with these little vexations during zazen, that if I can't let them go or let them be, and they're evolving into "problems" - it can work if I investigate them intensely, asking "what is this".
Might also be worth a shot bro.
Deep bows

Mumeido
SatToday/LAH

[Jakuden]

I sometimes find, with these little vexations during zazen, that if I can't let them go or let them be, and they're evolving into "problems" - it can work if I investigate them intensely, asking "what is this".
Might also be worth a shot bro.
Deep bows

Mumeido
SatToday/LAH

Yes, "what is this" is a wonderful thing! Perhaps Sean could try to do that outside of Zazen instead--sit in the posture for meditation, and really investigate what is happening with the hands in different positions. Then when it comes up in Zazen, it may be more familiar and easier to let go.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Geika]

Something that also helps me when I realize I am caught in emotions, discomfort, and uncertainty (and not just during zazen) is this: "It's just anxiety... it's just my brain trying to distract me because it doesn't want to sit... it's just me swallowing... it is just hot... it is just cold... it is just my obsessions... it is just thoughts..." and so on. I don't forcibly think this, it is simply a habit that has developed over time to help me when I realize I have lost focus: name it, let go, and continue to sit.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Kyousui]

Good thread! I've been more aware of my thumb position because of it. I usually put my thumbs in a more or less "stressed" position, I thought because it was easier to keep them in that position without thinking. Now I realize that it's good to relax them as a sort of auxiliary anchor.

Sat LAH

[Sean]

Hi all

I was given lots of good advice on this by many of you a while back, but I've struggled to make any progress with this. I've tried letting go of the thoughts and feelings around it, or even really being aware of the sensation but the sensation of touch is just too much and I can't maintain it for more than a few minutes and it really dominates the experience. I can maintain the cosmic mudra if I pinch a little of my shirt fabric between my thumbs so they're not physically making contact. It feels that by not doing the mudra I am not doing the practice and it bothers me. I wish it didn't but it does. I've thought maybe I should practice in a dzogchen tradition where the practice is similar but I don't have to maintain the mudra and I can feel that I am doing the practice fully, but to be honest it doesn't speak to me in the same way that the Zen tradition does. Unsure what to do. I know it seems like a ridiculous dilemma but if I just meditate with my hands rested on my knees or in my lap am I still doing shikantaza? I was thinking about doing Jukai this year but didn't feel like I could commit when I wasn't doing the practice fully.


Gassho

Sat today

[Shokai]

Hi Sean;

Don't be so hard on yourself. The mudra is a symbol of completeness and harmony. Like it or not we live by/with symbols. Some folks like to interlock their fingers to hold the position but this tends to build tension. With your hands in the mudra they just lay in your lap. Let go and let it happen.

gassho, Shokai
stlah

[Mp]

Hi all

I was given lots of good advice on this by many of you a while back, but I've struggled to make any progress with this. I've tried letting go of the thoughts and feelings around it, or even really being aware of the sensation but the sensation of touch is just too much and I can't maintain it for more than a few minutes and it really dominates the experience. I can maintain the cosmic mudra if I pinch a little of my shirt fabric between my thumbs so they're not physically making contact. It feels that by not doing the mudra I am not doing the practice and it bothers me. I wish it didn't but it does. I've thought maybe I should practice in a dzogchen tradition where the practice is similar but I don't have to maintain the mudra and I can feel that I am doing the practice fully, but to be honest it doesn't speak to me in the same way that the Zen tradition does. Unsure what to do. I know it seems like a ridiculous dilemma but if I just meditate with my hands rested on my knees or in my lap am I still doing shikantaza? I was thinking about doing Jukai this year but didn't feel like I could commit when I wasn't doing the practice fully.


Gassho

Sat today

Hey Sean,

As Shokai has said, "Let go and let it happen". Remember that this "block" is only in the mind and to maintain the mudra you do it through practice, not by thinking about it. The more you practice, the less the mind in plays in defining your practice. Keep at it ... it will come. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/YAH

[Jundo]

I agree. Don't let the Mudra muddle you. You may just have particularly sensitive fingers.

I give you special (only you ! ) permission to try this alternative sometimes used in Rinzai position ...



Or, yes, try one of the Buddha's many other meditation Mudras ... How about a bit of Thai/Vipassana ...



However, I would once in awhile go back to the Shikantaza way, and perhaps see if the real "disturbance" is as much between your ears as your fingers. It is possible for us to attach and hook onto something like this more in the mind than actually for outside reasons. So, play with that a bit. Especially do so if you find yourself doing such things, and fixating on other things too. Sometimes if someone does this about one point, they also have a tendency to hook on a bit about other things in life. Just explore this a bit.

Or, the Chinese manufacture a special bridging device for people with this condition ...



(Just kidding about that. Those are Chinese finger cuffs. :-)

Maezumi Roshi's brother, who I have had the pleasure to meet here in Japan, lost all his fingers in a fire. I guess that he is not bothered by this either.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Sean]

Thanks all!

Jundo the Thai/Vipassana one looks pretty close apart from the thumbs so I think I will go with that and then perhaps try and persist with cosmic mudra once a week. If I'm not doing the cosmic mudra I can sit for up to an hour and let go of all kinds of aches, numbness and tingles, there's just something about this particular sensation I find difficult to be with.

It's funny you mention the Chinese finger cuffs because I did in all seriousness consider trying something like that!

Gassho

Sat today