Dharma Audiobooks

[Myogan]

As part of my Ango commitments one thing was for me to get out of the house and just walk, not necessarily for exercise. While doing so I have been listening to "The Three Pillars of Zen"
I enjoyed how the first person accounts and letters had a nice rhythm to walk by. (Ignoring the fact that Mu will always be for me the sound a cow makes)

Any suggestions for more audio Dharma besides podcasts?

Gassho
Sat

[Chishou]

Dharma Audiobooks

The San Fransisco Zen Centre site has a lot of free ones, but asks for a donation.

A book I quite liked the book "Why you are not a Buddhist" by Dzongsar.

Podcasts:
Yokoji Zen Dharma Talks
Hardcore Zen
Living Zen
Katagiri Roshi Talks.

Simon
座りました



Ask not what the Sangha can do for you, but what you can do for the Sangha.

[Kokuu]

Hi Myogan

Brad's 'Don't Be A Jerk' is available as an audiobook, read by the man himself.

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Jundo]

... While doing so I have been listening to "The Three Pillars of Zen" ...
I enjoyed how the first person accounts and letters had a nice rhythm to walk by. (Ignoring the fact that Mu will always be for me the sound a cow makes)

Whenever this book is mentioned, I get on my soap box and high horse, my high horse on a soapbox! "Three Pillars of Zen" is one of the few Zen books I actually caution about. These days, many in the Zen world would consider it a book that had a disproportionate influence because it was one of the first books widely read in the West on Zen, but that did some harm in causing tremendous misunderstandings about Zen Practice. Below is what I write when the topic arises.

-------------------------

Zen and all Buddhism come in so many flavors ... All ultimately the same at heart perhaps, but very different in viewpoints and approach. So, the person new to Buddhism and Zen is left very confused by all the different books claiming to be a "Guide to Zen" or "Introduction to Buddhism" recommending often very very different things! Even "Soto" and "Shikantaza" folks can be quite varied in approach among themselves ... everyone like a cook with her own personal recipe for chicken soup!

...

["Three Pillars of Zen"] had great influence because it was so early (one of the few books on the subject 50 years ago), but it presented a view on Zen Practice and 'Kensho' that is not usual even in Japan (not even in Rinzai Zen, in my understanding) and represents a group ... named "Sanbokyodan" ... that is tiny is Japan but has had a HUGE and disproportionate influence in the West through derived groups such as the White Plum and Diamond Sangha! Read more here.

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/CriticalZen/sanbokyodan%20zen.pdf

...

The book presents a view of "Kensho" and "Enlightenment" that was very much present in corners of the Zen world at one time, especially in the west. I was recently reading a good book on the subject, a book about the culture surrounding "The Three Pillars of Zen" which presented to many such an extreme, misleading "Kensho or Bust" image of Zen practice. Here is a review of that book, called "Zen Teaching, Zen Practice: Philip Kapleau and The Three Pillars of Zen" edited by Kenneth Kraft, a long time student of Kapleau Roshi ...

Kraft points out that Kapleau’s book is “in large measure a book about kensho” (p.14) which in itself is problematic as for many, including some of the authors of the essays, this led to “inflated expectations… [and] [t]he discrepancy between anticipatory visions of enlightenment and actual experiences of insight”. (p.15) This disjuncture between what Kapleau wrote and the actual experiences of Zen students has led to some criticisms of The Three Pillars of Zen as a book that gives an unrealistic picture of what to expect from zazen. ...

While this emphasis on and almost inevitability of kensho is, I think, a fair criticism of The Three Pillars of Zen, there is little doubt that Kapleau’s book brought many people to the study and practice of Zen Buddhism and for that we should be grateful. It is also necessary that we understand where and how Kapleau learned his Zen practice to better understand why he wrote and taught the way he did.

http://www.thezensite.com/ZenBookReviews/ZenteachingZenpractice.htm

You can also read a bit more on Kapleau and Yasutani Roshis' approach at the two "One Born, Twice Born Zen" links above.

Gassho, J

SatToday

PS -

A book I quite liked the book "Why you are not a Buddhist" by Dzongsar.

Actually, I will add this to my "small caution" list as well, although not a "Zen Book" (it is written by a Tibetan Teacher. The actual title is "What Makes You Not a Buddhist"). My caution is that his standards for what does and does not make a Buddhist are not universal. He interprets the "Second Seal" as "all emotions are pain." Hmmm. That is one way that the Four Seals are read by some, but I prefer to say that much of life, and its impermanence, is unsatisfactory, disappointing (Dukkha). Shohaku Okumura has some discussion of this alternative way of viewing Dukkha here (the page that begins "The First Dharma Seal: Everything Contains Suffering) ...

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=tTs6AwAAQBAJ&dq=issai+kaiku+four+muga+nehan&q=the+first+dharma+seal+everything+contains+suffering+reality+of+impermanence#v=snippet&q=the%20first%20dharma%20seal%20everything%20contains%20suffering%20reality%20of%20impermanence&f=false

I also seem to recall that Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse seems to insist that one must believe in a rather mechanical view of Karma and literal post-mortem rebirth to be a "real Buddhist." Fiddle-sticks, not so.

[Myogan]

Full disclosure:
1. I have a print copy of 3PZ, but was never able to get through the beginning
2. I bought the audiobook for free as part of the subscription.
The local teacher warned us that without a teacher well experienced in Koans, "doing koans can really mess you up"
As such I tried to ignore the emphasis on "Mu" and just listen to the stories of the people. Thinking about Zazen experiences without "Mu" can still mess you up, so I am grateful to have a teacher to guide us.

I guess what I am asking for is Audiobooks that have a good conversational beat, not just the reading of a textbook, a walking companion.

I have been debating "The Hidden Lamp"

Gassho
Sat

[Mp]

Hey Myogan,

I am just in the middle of The Essential Dogen: Writings of the Great Zen Master - https://www.amazon.ca/Essential-Doge...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Not bad so far ... =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[FaithMoon]

Jundo you are JUST WRONG that 3 pillars represents the practice of the White Plum Sangha and I really wish you would quit spreading this misinformation.

Peter Coyote reads Zen Mind Beginner's Mind. Highly recommended

Faith-Moon
st

[Jundo]

Jundo you are JUST WRONG that 3 pillars represents the practice of the White Plum Sangha and I really wish you would quit spreading this misinformation.

Peter Coyote reads Zen Mind Beginner's Mind. Highly recommended

Faith-Moon
st

Hi Faith Moon,

The influence of Sambokyodan and the Harada-Yasutani Lineage, and the focus on a push toward Kensho there, was originally very strong in the White Plum through Maezumi Roshi. The focus has softened over the years in my understanding, although it varies from Teacher to Teacher. As Robert Sharf recounts in the paper I linked to ...

16 Maezumi, the son of a Sõtõ priest, ordained at age 11, and graduated from Komazawa
University. He trained at the Sõtõ training hall at Sõji-ji )³±, and in 1956 came to America
to serve as priest at Zenshu-ji (Los Angeles), headquarters of the Sõtõ Zen Mission in the
United States. He met Yasutani in 1962, and received transmission from him some eight
years later (7 Dec. 1970). He founded the Zen Center of Los Angeles in 1969, the Kuroda
Institute for the Study of Buddhism and Human Values in 1976, and the Zen Mountain
Center (Idyllwild, Calif.) in 1983. While Maezumi is also the Dharma successor of the Sõtõ
teacher Kuroda Hakujun and the Rinzai teacher Osaka Kõryð [], his style of teaching
owes a great deal to the Harada-Yasutani method.

You may also find some information on the atmosphere in those early days in Peter Matthiessen's book, "Nine-Headed Dragon River: Zen Journals 1969-1982". Peter Matthiessen, the noted writer and naturist, was one of Maezumi Roshi's principle Dharma Heirs. My mentor for several years, Doshin Cantor, was a Dharma Heir of Mattheissen Roshi. Read a couple of pages from here, the phrase "In May 1970, Maezumi's Rinzai teacher, Osaka Koryu-roshi ..."

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=4BhfAwAAQBAJ&dq=maezumi+kensho&q=in+may+1970%2C+maezumi%27s+rinzai+teacher%2C+osaka+koryu-roshi#v=snippet&q=in%20may%201970%2C%20maezumi's%20rinzai%20teacher%2C%20osaka%20koryu-roshi&f=false

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[FaithMoon]

I don't know Doshin Cantor's style. Is it like the style of the 3 Pillars? (Peter Matthiessen received transmission from Bernie Glassman, BTW.) I am basing my comments on actually practicing there rather than these extremely old references. Have you checked out your ideas about what happens these days in the White Plum with your zen teacher colleagues?

I think if readers here would like to get a taste of what actually goes on in the White Plum, I heard an interview on Buddhist Geeks Podcast with Shishin Wick that reflects my experience pretty well. Go to: http://bg.pod-ad.com/content/BG/BG_1...tStylesZen.mp3 (part 1) http://bg.pod-ad.com/content/BG/BG_110_EmbodiedZen.mp3 (part 2). The environment depicted in 3 pillars would not work for me.

Faith-Moon
st

[Jundo]

I don't know Doshin Cantor's style. Is it like the style of the 3 Pillars? (Peter Matthiessen received transmission from Bernie Glassman, BTW.) I am basing my comments on actually practicing there rather than these extremely old references. Have you checked out your ideas about what happens these days in the White Plum with your zen teacher colleagues?

I think if readers here would like to get a taste of what actually goes on in the White Plum, I heard an interview on Buddhist Geeks Podcast with Shishin Wick that reflects my experience pretty well. http://podcasts.personallifemedia.co...y-shishin-wick The environment depicted in 3 pillars would not work for me.

Faith-Moon
st

Ah, yes, Peter received Transmission from Bernie Glassman, who is Maezumi Roshi's Dharma Heir. You are right.

As I said, the influence of the hard style described in "Three Pillars of Zen" and of the Sanbokyodan etc. has softened among most Teachers in the White Plum, in my understanding. White Plum Practice is still quite distinct from standard Soto/Shikantaza Practice generally, in my view. That does not make it bad, just different.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Rakurei]

As part of my Ango commitments one thing was for me to get out of the house and just walk, not necessarily for exercise. While doing so I have been listening to "The Three Pillars of Zen"
I enjoyed how the first person accounts and letters had a nice rhythm to walk by. (Ignoring the fact that Mu will always be for me the sound a cow makes)

Any suggestions for more audio Dharma besides podcasts?

Gassho
Sat

Myogan! I am a huge audiobook/Audible user. Depending on the length, I usually listen to 3-4 a month - I listen on my morning walks, afternoon gym sessions - or even just relaxing before bed. (Note, I do worry sometimes that this may distract me from being fuly present in that moment, but when I walk and listen, I am only walking and listening )

Quality Dharma Audiobooks are hard to come by. I love some of the traditional texts, but I find the narrator to be kind of dull. It's usually a very stern voice, and doesn't usually inflect the proper parts. It's more as if they are reading the book aloud than narrating. Even Peter Coyote who I enjoy, can be a bit one-note after sometime. He narrated Zen Mind, Beginner Mind (check it out though!). I also enjoyed reading Chogyam Trungpa's Mindfulness in Action, but the narrator on the audio versions has a very drone voice that I don't think does it justice, or emphasises what needs to be emphasized.

A good narrator will use the right inflection, or even go "off script" to clarify. That's why when the author reads it, it comes off a bit better.

That being said - here's some I did like that are available on Audible.


After The Ecstasy, The Laundry - Jack Kornfield. One of my favorite audio books, as it intertwines his personal story, real-life experiences of practioners and his own unique wisdom. Jack also has an amazing voice. It touches on - sure, awakening experiences are good, but what happens when you leave the retreat? The zendo and have to go back into the real world? Great, great book. Check it out!

Don't Be a Jerk - Brad Warner. I didn't like Hardcore Zen. But I like this - as it's pretty much a discourse on Dogen, with some great examples and in everyday language. It was made for audio, which means Brad does a good job of narrating, not just reading the pages. He takes time to clarify, and it's generally like a peformance, audio effects, too.

Nothing Holy About It - Tim Burkett. This is a great book! And I don't hear it spoken of often. It's a mix of Tim's personal story of his time with Suzuki Roshi, Katagiri Roshi, Chino Roshi and that whole crew as well as Zen in general. Tim is a teacher, abott and does a good job explaining Zen and it's great for the Zen in America nerds, to get a glimpse of what Zen was like during that time and with that whole group.

What is Zen? - Normal Fisher and Susan Moon. Jundo said we will be discussing this. But at 4 hours or so, it's a quick listen. I do recommend having a physical copy though, because there are some lines that are good to drink in.

What Makes You Not a Buddhist. - Dzongsar Khyentse. I'm iffy about this one, there's a lot of gems and good perspective. He leaves the meat until the end, but it's a super short listen which makes it worth it. I think I listened to this in one sitting.

Peace in Every Step - Thich Nhat Hanh. Okay! So, this one can be a little sugary sweet, a little eye-rolly but I have grown to enjoy Edoardo Bellerini's narration style. He does all of Thich Nhat Hanh's books. While his message is simple, there's no denying that Thich Nhat Hanh is an extraordinary person, and hearing him talk about mindfulness, and his own personal journey as a young monk in Vietnam is a fun listen. Also super short around 2 hours and some change.

Also! Podcasts! There are so many great Dharma Podcasts, that have dharma talks, interviews with buddhists and more.

Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg and the Buddhist Geeks podcast are some of my favorites. Jack and Sharon's are usually just Dharma Talks in podcast form. Buddhist Geeks is a bit more topical. They had a great one on race with Rev. Angel Kyodo. Also check out the Secular Buddhist podcast, and the Be Here Now Guest podcast, as sometimes there's a few Zen names there like Gil Fronsdale, Norman Fisher, Joan Halifax and more. There's also a lot of Zen centers who have podcasts now like Upaya, and a few others that are pretty good on the right days.

If you want a taste of some other eastern philosophy - Mind Rolling is a good one, and they have Buddhist guests but also Hindu, Muslim Christian and social activists, too. Founded by one of the guys from the Neem Karoli Baba and Ram Dass's crew. Same network also hosts Krishna Das's podast which is Bhakti related, but its nice to hear his story. For a "Hindu" (if he identifies as such) he has a great respect for Tibetan Buddhism and often shares his stories of his time with Lamas and more. There's also Surya Das's podcast there too which has it's good days.

Enjoy!

-Tyler

SatToday/LAH

[Tairin]

Hey Myogan,

I am just in the middle of The Essential Dogen: Writings of the Great Zen Master - https://www.amazon.ca/Essential-Doge...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Not bad so far ... =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

That book is queued up in my list of readings although I think I'll have to wait until after Jukai.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today & LAH

[Mp]

That book is queued up in my list of readings although I think I'll have to wait until after Jukai.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today & LAH

It is very good Warren, I think you will like it. I listen to it while walking my dog Mr. Bodhi. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[Souchi]

I can recommend the "Sunday Talks" by Shohaku Okumura on the YouTube channel of the Sanshin Zen Community: https://www.youtube.com/user/sanshinzencommunity.

The recorded talks are neither an audiobook nor a podcast and it takes some effort to extract the audio part from the files and to figure out the exact order of the talks. But what you get as reward is Shohaku Okumura completely taking apart the book "Opening the Hand of Thought" by Kosho Uchiyama (meant in a positive way). He comments on every sentence in the book extensively and has not yet reached the end of the book although he started talking about it around the year 2006 (!).

Gassho,
Stefan

SatToday/LAH

[Myogan]

Hey Myogan,

I am just in the middle of The Essential Dogen: Writings of the Great Zen Master - https://www.amazon.ca/Essential-Doge...=UTF8&qid=&sr=

Not bad so far ... =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

Finished that just before Ango. Considering doing the again later in the period.

Gassho