The True Nature of the Body

[Kokuu]

The problem for me with porn is not just how the people in the industry are treated but the knock-on effect of how sex and sexual relationships are portrayed on societal norms. Studies have already been done on how most young men, and a lot of women, get much of their knowledge of sex from internet pornography. In this, women are mostly portrayed as submissive and sexually available. Their own needs are often ignored. Boys now expect certain things of girls that they did not in the past based on this experience. There is also evidence that boys and men require greater stimulation because of their porn habits. I have heard of this anecdotally from younger women too whose young boyfriends are just not aroused enough by a 'normal' woman engaging in 'normal' sexual behaviour.

Prostitution is more difficult for me as a topic as I am mostly in favour of the consensual exchange of sex for money. However, it is certainly true that women who have little other way of making a decent living get pulled into that, and the role of sex trafficking is well documented. Women trafficked to the UK from eastern Europe and Asia are in debt to their traffickers and promised conventional jobs turn out to be non-existent leaving them to work in the sex industry in order to pay back their money. Sex work is also a dangerous profession with many women, and men, who work as prostitutes suffering both physical and sexual assault. Some of the laws around prostitution make this worse by not allowing women to work together in a flat.

Having given advice on sex and relationships to both male and female teens (my children) I can say that I fear far more for my girls. My son will be taught about consent and what it looks like. Porn, and pop songs, blur the lines on this, and we see in countries like America that even rapists often don't get the punishment they deserve giving men more of a sense of their value compared to women.

Well, that is my rant over but as someone with teenagers, this is something that bothers me a lot. Healthy sexuality (in terms of affection between consenting adults of whatever form or combination of genders) doesn't worry me. The form it is currently taking in western society concerns me greatly.

Deep bows
Kokuu
-sattoday-

[Mp]

The problem for me with porn is not just how the people in the industry are treated but the knock-on effect of how sex and sexual relationships are portrayed on societal norms. Studies have already been done on how most young men, and a lot of women, get much of their knowledge of sex from internet pornography. In this, women are mostly portrayed as submissive and sexually available. Their own needs are often ignored. Boys now expect certain things of girls that they did not in the past based on this experience. There is also evidence that boys and men require greater stimulation because of their porn habits. I have heard of this anecdotally from younger women too whose young boyfriends are just not aroused enough by a 'normal' woman engaging in 'normal' sexual behaviour.

Prostitution is more difficult for me as a topic as I am mostly in favour of the consensual exchange of sex for money. However, it is certainly true that women who have little other way of making a decent living get pulled into that, and the role of sex trafficking is well documented. Women trafficked to the UK from eastern Europe and Asia are in debt to their traffickers and promised conventional jobs turn out to be non-existent leaving them to work in the sex industry in order to pay back their money. Sex work is also a dangerous profession with many women, and men, who work as prostitutes suffering both physical and sexual assault. Some of the laws around prostitution make this worse by not allowing women to work together in a flat.

Having given advice on sex and relationships to both male and female teens (my children) I can say that I fear far more for my girls. My son will be taught about consent and what it looks like. Porn, and pop songs, blur the lines on this, and we see in countries like America that even rapists often don't get the punishment they deserve giving men more of a sense of their value compared to women.

Well, that is my rant over but as someone with teenagers, this is something that bothers me a lot. Healthy sexuality (in terms of affection between consenting adults of whatever form or combination of genders) doesn't worry me. The form it is currently taking in western society concerns me greatly.

Deep bows
Kokuu
-sattoday-

Nicely said Kokuu, thank you this!

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[Joyo]

Thank you, Kokuu. I have the same concerns about Western views, and for the same reasons.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today/lah

[Jundo]

The problem for me with porn is not just how the people in the industry are treated but the knock-on effect of how sex and sexual relationships are portrayed on societal norms. Studies have already been done on how most young men, and a lot of women, get much of their knowledge of sex from internet pornography. In this, women are mostly portrayed as submissive and sexually available. Their own needs are often ignored. Boys now expect certain things of girls that they did not in the past based on this experience. There is also evidence that boys and men require greater stimulation because of their porn habits. I have heard of this anecdotally from younger women too whose young boyfriends are just not aroused enough by a 'normal' woman engaging in 'normal' sexual behaviour.

Prostitution is more difficult for me as a topic as I am mostly in favour of the consensual exchange of sex for money. However, it is certainly true that women who have little other way of making a decent living get pulled into that, and the role of sex trafficking is well documented. Women trafficked to the UK from eastern Europe and Asia are in debt to their traffickers and promised conventional jobs turn out to be non-existent leaving them to work in the sex industry in order to pay back their money. Sex work is also a dangerous profession with many women, and men, who work as prostitutes suffering both physical and sexual assault. Some of the laws around prostitution make this worse by not allowing women to work together in a flat.

Having given advice on sex and relationships to both male and female teens (my children) I can say that I fear far more for my girls. My son will be taught about consent and what it looks like. Porn, and pop songs, blur the lines on this, and we see in countries like America that even rapists often don't get the punishment they deserve giving men more of a sense of their value compared to women.

Well, that is my rant over but as someone with teenagers, this is something that bothers me a lot. Healthy sexuality (in terms of affection between consenting adults of whatever form or combination of genders) doesn't worry me. The form it is currently taking in western society concerns me greatly.

Deep bows
Kokuu
-sattoday-

I think this is right on, Kokuu. Thank you.

It is very much like, in our consumer culture, constant bombardment with media and advertisement creates bloated desires for all kinds of things ... new tennis shoes, fancy cars ... that we really don't need (foot covering and basic transportation, yes, but not all the hype). Likewise, to make those tennis shoes in sweatshops, there is untold exploitation.

The Mahayana Buddhists may be more open to sex, but the emphasis remains on building healthy, mutually beneficial relationships (especially these days, as Buddhism leaves the values of unequal societies behind, and moves to a world in which sexual equality and human rights are more valued). Nothing wrong with enjoying sex, but do so ... as with eating food ... in a way that is truly nutritious, good for you, with some substance ... not in excess of quantity or too much empty calories of fast food junk. Nothing wrong with enjoying sex, but do so in a way that avoids hurting others and oneself (not two, by the way).

Well spoken, Kokuu.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Jakuden]

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Kyonin]

Hi all,

I saw the video but refrained from commenting until sitting with this. I have read about how Theravada monks refrain from handling money or even talking to women and I understand why they do that. I even had a Theravada monk friend who was traveling through Mexico and it was a challenge for him because of all those barriers they impose on themselves.

I think compassion is a key element for our practice. Just as we are compassionate towards others, we should begin practicing it from within us and for ourselves. That means to be aware of all our excesses and compulsions. With compassion and by living by the Precepts we can stop harmful behaviors. That goes for Netflix watching, food and sex, of course.

We are humans, living organisms that have to do what living organisms do in order to preserve the species. We also have developed this mind that lead us to have a civilization. But in the package also come rules, ethics and morality.

And as Buddhist we also have to always check our actions with the Precepts. Addictions are in conflict with our precept of abstaining from intoxicating the mind.

Compassion to ourselves is a great help to overcome addictions or not to even begin developing one.

I don't think the body is loathsome or dirty or rotten or anything of the like. It's part of nature, part of a bigger living being. Our body is our vehicle to navigate life and our means to be of service to all sentient beings.

We live in a human world full of human stuff. So we live a human life, but at the same time acting with compassion.

But as always, I might be totally wrong.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Enjaku]

Hi all,

I saw the video but refrained from commenting until sitting with this. I have read about how Theravada monks refrain from handling money or even talking to women and I understand why they do that. I even had a Theravada monk friend who was traveling through Mexico and it was a challenge for him because of all those barriers they impose on themselves.

I think compassion is a key element for our practice. Just as we are compassionate towards others, we should begin practicing it from within us and for ourselves. That means to be aware of all our excesses and compulsions. With compassion and by living by the Precepts we can stop harmful behaviors. That goes for Netflix watching, food and sex, of course.

We are humans, living organisms that have to do what living organisms do in order to preserve the species. We also have developed this mind that lead us to have a civilization. But in the package also come rules, ethics and morality.

And as Buddhist we also have to always check our actions with the Precepts. Addictions are in conflict with our precept of abstaining from intoxicating the mind.

Compassion to ourselves is a great help to overcome addictions or not to even begin developing one.

I don't think the body is loathsome or dirty or rotten or anything of the like. It's part of nature, part of a bigger living being. Our body is our vehicle to navigate life and our means to be of service to all sentient beings.

We live in a human world full of human stuff. So we live a human life, but at the same time acting with compassion.

But as always, I might be totally wrong.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

Thank you, Kyonin. Deep bows.
Enjaku
Sat LAH

[Jinyo]

Hi all,

I saw the video but refrained from commenting until sitting with this. I have read about how Theravada monks refrain from handling money or even talking to women and I understand why they do that. I even had a Theravada monk friend who was traveling through Mexico and it was a challenge for him because of all those barriers they impose on themselves.

I think compassion is a key element for our practice. Just as we are compassionate towards others, we should begin practicing it from within us and for ourselves. That means to be aware of all our excesses and compulsions. With compassion and by living by the Precepts we can stop harmful behaviors. That goes for Netflix watching, food and sex, of course.

We are humans, living organisms that have to do what living organisms do in order to preserve the species. We also have developed this mind that lead us to have a civilization. But in the package also come rules, ethics and morality.

And as Buddhist we also have to always check our actions with the Precepts. Addictions are in conflict with our precept of abstaining from intoxicating the mind.

Compassion to ourselves is a great help to overcome addictions or not to even begin developing one.

I don't think the body is loathsome or dirty or rotten or anything of the like. It's part of nature, part of a bigger living being. Our body is our vehicle to navigate life and our means to be of service to all sentient beings.

We live in a human world full of human stuff. So we live a human life, but at the same time acting with compassion.

But as always, I might be totally wrong.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

Thank you Kyonin,

I also sat with this for a while because I found the content of the video quite dense. Many points of discussion within it regardless of the Theravadan overlay.

I first came across the 'disgust' meditation (unfortunate term) when I read Thich Nhat Hhan's book 'Transformation and Healing : Sutra on the Four Establishments of Mindfulness'. THich Nhat Hhan cautions against this meditation if one is chronically ill (so I've never tried it!) - though illness itself implicitly teaches the body's frailty and ability to be experienced as obnoxious.

My understanding is that the point of the meditation is to grasp impermanence at a very visceral level. I didn't get from this that the body should be viewed as loathsome per se? I probably need to listen to the video again but I caught a slight hint of fundamentalism and here in lies the danger - because so much of art/aesthetics/ and much of what we value, comes from an appreciation of the human form. I think its off the mark to use the message inherent in the sutra as some form of aversion therapy for sexual desire, and love of life in general, etc.

There's a huge gap between addiction and appreciation - who would want to live a life void of an appreciation for 'form and colour' - our world is, in many ways, beautiful - relationships - of all persuasions - are in many ways beautiful.

And yet we are capable of destroying all of this. So maybe - from time to time - we need to see (visualize) our own death to get a perspective. Shakespeare said it as well - the skull held up in the grave yard scene in Hamlet is comparable to the skeletons visualized in the video. We age, decay and die - but that doesn't mean that we are separate from the ebb and flow of form and colour.



Jinyo

ST