Zazenkai questions from a newcomer!

[Meitou]

As a newcomer to the Soto tradition, I would really love to know a little more about the actual Treeleaf Zendo and what happens during zazenkai. For instance, I'd love a closer peek at the altar, just so I have an idea of what Jundo actually puts there. And please excuse my ignorance when I ask what it actually is that happens at the altar, how you know when to strike the bell during the ceremony, and when to bow during the Heart Sutra. I watch the zazenkai recordings and really enjoy them, but feel always that I'm missing something through my own ignorance.
As I said in the zazenkai thread, it was really nice to see Daniela reading the Heart Sutra in German, I feel I know something more now about someone I see every week
If all of this has been covered in another thread, please forgive me and point me in the right direction!

Gassho
Frankie

Satwithyoualltoday/LAH

[Jakuden]

As a newcomer to the Soto tradition, I would really love to know a little more about the actual Treeleaf Zendo and what happens during zazenkai. For instance, I'd love a closer peek at the altar, just so I have an idea of what Jundo actually puts there. And please excuse my ignorance when I ask what it actually is that happens at the altar, how you know when to strike the bell during the ceremony, and when to bow during the Heart Sutra. I watch the zazenkai recordings and really enjoy them, but feel always that I'm missing something through my own ignorance.
As I said in the zazenkai thread, it was really nice to see Daniela reading the Heart Sutra in German, I feel I know something more now about someone I see every week
If all of this has been covered in another thread, please forgive me and point me in the right direction!

Gassho
Frankie

Satwithyoualltoday/LAH

Thank you for asking this Frankie! I have had some of the same questions, and have also occasionally considered asking to see a close-up view of the altar in the Zendo.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH

[Jundo]

Hi Frankie,

When we have our Retreat in San Francisco, we will be filming a short film on "Proper Zazenkai Procedures." However, we are really simple minimalists around here, so the instructions are not so many in our Sangha (compared to the elegant ballet that some Zen Ceremony can be) ...

Basically, Gassho when entering and existing the room.

Try not to walk in front of any Buddha Statue in the room, or Gassho (or standing Bow in Shasshu) in apology if you need to do so.

Walk with hands in Shasshu (I have a video already about much of this) when walking through the Zendo.

Stand in Gassho during the Ceremony, but only Bow ...



1- During "3 Bows" times (either three Prostrations or deep standing Gassho bows)

2- At end of any Chant, such as at the end of the Heart Sutra when the Ino recites "HANNnnya SHINnnngyoooo ... " Or, such as at the end of Verse of Atonement" when we recite " ... for them Allllllll". Do not otherwise Bow during Chants.

3- During Dedication of Merit after Chant, when we recite " ... to Shakyamuni Honored One" (until) " ... and all Teachers in all places and times".



For the rest, only the Doshi (the priest leading the Ceremony) does all the Bowing alone. Others just stand in Gassho and observe.

Also, Bow in the prescribed way when sitting down for Zazen and when getting up. I have a video on that already ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14884-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2812%29&p=189093#post189093

I will also try to post some pictures or a video of our Altar and other corners of our Zendo this week, and show you around a bit.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

[Seishin]

Frankie thank you for asking this question it gives me the opportunity to raise a point which is been puzzling me for some time.

Jundo although I have taken part in the Zazenkai for some time now, I have always been curious of the reason for the two rings and apparent hesitation on the 3rd bow.
Can you explain if there is such a reason?

Gassho

Toby

Std 🙏

Sent from my NEM-L51 using Tapatalk

[Zenmei]

2- At end of any Chant, such as at the end of the Heart Sutra when the Ino recites "HANNnnya SHINnnngyoooo ... " Or, such as at the end of Verse of Atonement" when we recite " ... for them Allllllll". Do not otherwise Bow during Chants.

We're not supposed to bow when we chant "prajna paramita" during the Heart Sutra?

Gassho, Zenmei (st)

[Mp]

We're not supposed to bow when we chant "prajna paramita" during the Heart Sutra?

Gassho, Zenmei (st)

Yes that is correct Zenmei ... we bow three times before the start of the Heart Sutra and right at the end with Hannya Shingyo, Jundo does all the bowing during the Heart Sutra. Now, if you were chanting it on your own, then yes, please do give a bow/gassho. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[Jundo]

We're not supposed to bow when we chant "prajna paramita" during the Heart Sutra?

Gassho, Zenmei (st)

No. I looked at ceremony recordings at several Zen Sangha to confirm my understanding. The Doshi (the Priest leading the Ceremony) may Bow at such point, but not the surrounding people who are usually chanting while seated, and do not move when reaching that portion.

In our Sangha, I am very relaxed about this, and folks have Bowed as they wish. Hopefully, the new film we will make will teach folks only to Bow at the above times.

Jundo although I have taken part in the Zazenkai for some time now, I have always been curious of the reason for the two rings and apparent hesitation on the 3rd bow.

I have been asked this question before. To make a long story short, there is a second ring of the bell on the third bell, a signal to everyone that it is the final Prostration. Priests will tend to do a light standing bow before heading down for each Prostration. I have noticed that some Priests just tend to bow a bit deeper that final time. I do not think that there is a particular reason. When I began to substitute Standing Bows for Prostration, I seem to have added that extra Bow.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Seishin]

Very useful teaching from everyone who has contributed. Guess this means I can cut out all those extra bows (and half/false bows) I've been doing for the last 6 months or so.

SIFSRZTM/lah

Toby

[Meitou]

Hi Frankie,

When we have our Retreat in San Francisco, we will be filming a short film on "Proper Zazenkai Procedures." However, we are really simple minimalists around here, so the instructions are not so many in our Sangha (compared to the elegant ballet that some Zen Ceremony can be) ...

Basically, Gassho when entering and existing the room.

Try not to walk in front of any Buddha Statue in the room, or Gassho (or standing Bow in Shasshu) in apology if you need to do so.

Walk with hands in Shasshu (I have a video already about much of this) when walking through the Zendo.

Stand in Gassho during the Ceremony, but only Bow ...



1- During "3 Bows" times (either three Prostrations or deep standing Gassho bows)

2- At end of any Chant, such as at the end of the Heart Sutra when the Ino recites "HANNnnya SHINnnngyoooo ... " Or, such as at the end of Verse of Atonement" when we recite " ... for them Allllllll". Do not otherwise Bow during Chants.

3- During Dedication of Merit after Chant, when we recite " ... to Shakyamuni Honored One" (until) " ... and all Teachers in all places and times".



For the rest, only the Doshi (the priest leading the Ceremony) does all the Bowing alone. Others just stand in Gassho and observe.

Also, Bow in the prescribed way when sitting down for Zazen and when getting up. I have a video on that already ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14884-Sit-a-Long-with-Jundo-Zazen-for-Beginners-%2812%29&p=189093#post189093

I will also try to post some pictures or a video of our Altar and other corners of our Zendo this week, and show you around a bit.

Gassho, Jundo

SatTodayLAH

Jundo, and everyone who has contributed, thank you all SO MUCH for taking the time to explain. I have seen the videos about bowing generally but wasn't sure about the procedure during our ceremonies here. I'm looking forward to seeing the film from the Retreat in San Francisco ( so wish I could be there!) and would love to see some photos.
Deep bow to everyone, thank you again

Gassho
Frankie
Satwithyoualltoday.

[Jundo]

Just to show a couple of examples. This is a Rinzai group, our friend Eshu Martin in Victoria. He is seated during their Recitation, but you can see how they recite at the "Prajna Paramita" portion at, for example, 4:40 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR5FBgBe7yg&t=422s

A Deshimaru Lineage Soto group in Argentina at 1:50 mark (you can hear "Hannya Haramita" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi_ppbUW0bk

At Yokoji, which is a mixed Rinzai-Soto group, you can see the small standing bow before each Prostration at about the 7:20 to 7:35 mark, and you can see how perhaps folks just are a little more pronounced that last time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF-6qOWnb5w&t=554s

They do not show the "Prajna Paramita" portion of their Heart Sutra in the video, but you can also see how everyone does a sitting Prostration during the "Shakyamuni Buddha" Dedication at about 8:55 to 9:15 mark.

Don't worry about small differences in their timing in doing so. Every group has its own pace and ways. These are just general examples. We say that each Sangha has its own "House Style".

Gassho, J

SatTodaLAH

[Jundo]

This is from Japan, and a little hard to see. It is a formal service where the Doshi heads to the Altar to offer Incense at the "Prajna Paramita" bell, but the monks at the side remain standing without change. About the 2:20 mark you can hear the bell ring after "Hannya Haramita" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InkJE2PMX3Y&t=144s

[Meitou]

The Yokoji video was really instructive in that everything is explained very clearly even though it seems very complex and exacting. I did however really love the Victoria Zen Center commitment ceremony, I found myself chanting along with the students, it was very touching and the harmony with which the two initiates moved when bowing with gratitude to family, friends etc was really quite beautiful. I went and found Pt 2 on YT but frustratingly it stopped at a very exciting moment, just as Eshu Marting was about to give them their Buddhist names and there didn't seem to be a Pt 3 The Japanese video was of course beautiful
Incidentally while I was over on YT I got suckered into looking at other videos, as one does, and watched a ceremony from the San Francisco Zen Center - is that where you guys and gals are going? Wow it was stunning!
Gassho
Frankie

Satwithyoualltoday/LAH

[aprapti]

Thanks Jundo, for the nice Heartsutra video from Japan .It gives the opportunity to join the monks while the kanji-text passes.. Maybe one day i actually can read what i sing..


Coos

std/lah

[Jundo]

... it was very touching and the harmony with which the two initiates moved when bowing with gratitude to family, friends etc was really quite beautiful. ...

Hah! My joke about our Ceremonies here at Treeleaf, given the age, sprains, bad backs, physical whatnot of our members (and the Teacher too) is that, well, I am just happy if we can all manage to get up from a bow, let alone move in harmony.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Jundo]

As promised, a tour of Treeleaf Zendo in Tsukuba ... our little place ... the Potala in Llasa and Ankor Wat have nothing to fear as Unesco World Heritage treasures ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebC3UiFuXcA

A close-up of our "Beat-Up Buddha" ... a fellow who has seen the hard knocks of life, for sure ...

And a Soto style triptych, as found on our Altar ... Shakyamuni Buddha, flanked by Dogen Zenji on his right and Keizan Zenji on his left ...

You can see above Shakyamuni's hands in the "Zazen Mudra" or "Cosmic Mudra" (hokkai-join) as we sit, fingers in a great round Enso egg, while Amida Buddha sits with his hands in the following Mudra, a little different with the the fingers aligned together (check out your own Buddha Statues at home) ...



... so, I am not really sure if our insect bitten, pock marked, black eyed, scratch and dented "Hard Knocks Buddha" is truly Amida or Shakyamuni. However, it is not important at all, and he or she is both and neither. At a certain point in life, it no longer matters so much how one looks, as what is inside.

Here is a film of the interior of the Zendo being built by Mr. Keshiro Aita, the Japanese carpenter and our dear friend still (and the architect, Mr. Ushioda) ... Keshiro san put a lot of time and care into building it for us ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5cNCK2gVFk

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH


ZendoBuddhasmall.jpg