Tying Up Threads

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40719

    Tying Up Threads

    Hi,

    I wanted to get back to a topic I promised to discuss before my travels.

    Here at Treeleaf, a Sangha in the Soto Zen style, we practice just sitting, "Shikantaza". That is what I teach. It is a practice with its own very very special flavor, I believe, among most types of Eastern or Western religion or philosophy, and even among paths of Buddhist meditation: That's because Shikantaza forsakes all goals, all attainments, all search for special states of mind, esoteric or mystical experiences, escape from this mundane world by reaching some other "realm", supernatural powers or other-worldly insights and the like. If folks have dabbled in so-called "Eastern Beliefs" for any length of time, they will discover that most schools (even within Buddhism or some other sects of Zen Buddhism) are aiming for such attainments in one way or another.

    But there is a subtle twist involved, a very definite method to our "goalless" madness:

    Not searching does not mean that nothing is found. Quite the contrary! We might say that what is found is something always here, only encountered when we give up the pursuit. I sometimes compare it to the eye glasses perched right on top of one's head all along, though we have hunted for them high and low.

    Attaining radical non-attainment is a very great attainment! The need for nothing else, to be no where else, is a treasure right in hand, the completion of a long journey.

    Forsaking all need for special states of mind is perhaps --THE-- most special state of mind of all. By dropping (maybe for the first time in our lives) all judgments and demands on life, we truly learn to take life 'just-as-it-is', without resistance. There is no lack, nothing missing from the world ... everything is as it is.

    We learn that, even as me make our choices, hold 'likes' and 'dislikes' as a natural part of being human, that is not the only way to be. Hand in hand with that, we learn that there is nothing to choose. Even as we select our path, we know that we are always just where we are.

    Furthermore, by quieting the mind and stilling so many thoughts and emotions that bubble through our heads, we learn to see through many beliefs and experiences we take for granted, to see them as something of a dream and an illusion (the sense of all things having a separate "self" is but one example, as are so many of our ideas of "birth" "death" and "time", many more). Yet we also learn, in our neck of the Buddhist woods, that we must continue to live in a world of "selfs" "birth" "death" and "time" if we are to be human. It is almost as if we know it is a dream, but willingly dream away ... It is absolutely real, for it is our dream.

    We also experience some very "deep" states. We also experience some very "shallow"states. We experience times of great peace or bliss, we experience times of mental agitation and sadness. There are moments when the barriers between self and not-self drop away, there are moments when we are bored silly. Unlike many schools of meditation, we run toward none ... run from none. In fact, we drop all thought of "deep" "shallow" "peaceful" or "agitated", "happy" "sad", one or many.

    In doing so, we experience a presence beyond measure, a Peace that contains peace or agitation, self and not-self dropped away - yet fully present.

    In following this Way, we find that the most trying or ordinary things in life are more wondrous than any storybook magic and miracles. The most difficult or mundane event of life is life itself! Far from needing to escape from this sometimes beautiful, sometimes horrible world ... we find ourselves right at home, going along for the ride. We look out through our eyes, see right through this ordinary world as if looking through glass ... yet see all that we need to see.

    It is a very subtle practice.

    So, sometimes, when folks introduce books or teachings by other schools of thought that are "goal" oriented, or emphasize some attainment of a mystical state, or "higher" wisdom or power or such ... well, I will always jump in real fast to contrast that with what we practice here. I have to do that. It's my job, and what I collect my paycheck for. :wink:

    You cannot play baseball with a tennis racket, and you cannot practice 'non-seeking' Shikantaza if you are seeking any other thing on top of "Shikantaza. To put it in clear terms, we play baseball here ... and if folks show up to play tennis, I need to tell them to not play on our baseball diamond, and to take their rackets over to the tennis court. (Tennis may even be a better game than baseball, and even more fun or fruitful, but that is not the point. It is just that the two games cannot be played at the same time).

    This came up a day or so before my trip, on the "Yoga and zazen" thread, when some folks thought I meant to squash discussion or silence certain topics. That wasn't my intent. I am a fan of engaging in some yoga, and I see nothing wrong with engaging in a bit of yogic stretching and such. In fact, Zazen is a form of yoga.

    But the subject had come up of certain aspects of yoga emphasizing such attainments as the following ...

    Nirvikalpa samadhi is the highest experience that can result from such action. It is preceded by an intense effort. In the relative level, this effort may well be considered to be the cause and nirvikalpa samadhi its legitimate effect. So nirvikalpa samadhi is limited by causality. The yogin admits that he goes into nirvikalpa samadhi and comes out of it. Therefore it is also limited by time. In order to get into nirvikalpa samadhi, the body is necessary for the yogin to start with. Therefore nirvikalpa samadhi is also limited by space.
    That may be a really wonderful experience for someone pursuing "Nirvikalpa Samadhi", but it is not the way for someone practicing Shikantaza. It is tennis to our baseball. For that reason, I am happy to discuss it, to debate the relative merits and demerits compared to Shikantaza, and even to admit that the other Practice might be better than our practice (of course, I will almost always come down on the side of Shikantaza just as I am doing in this very post right now. Even if maybe tennis --IS-- a better game than baseball, I do not really care because baseball is the game I know and love, and that has changed my life. So they can keep their tennis!). If anyone has any questions about the other practice, I will either try to answer them or, if I can't, point them to some teacher of the other style. In fact, the internet is full of folks discussing about everything under the sun, so no way that I am stopping the free flow of information. I do not mean to silence anyone. But we can't really teach or play that other game here. We can chat about other styles and teachings a bit during the coffee breaks, but then we must get back to batting and pitching practice.

    It is for this same reason that I am also sometimes critical of the book "Three Pillars of Zen", mentioned on another thread this week. Kapleau Roshi, a very great teacher, was also teaching a very unique style of Zen Practice even considered unusual in Japan. I once wrote this:

    The Sanbôkyôdan (Three Treasures Association [the Sangha from which Kapleau Roshi and Maezumi Roshi emerged]) is... noteworthy for its single-minded emphasis on the experience of kenshô, [and] diverges markedly from more traditional models found in Sôtô, Rinzai, or Oobaku training halls. ...

    The only acceptable "solution" to the mu kôan in the Sanbôkyôdan is a credible report of a kenshô experience, and beginning students are subject to intense pressure during sesshin -- including the generous application of the "warning stick" (kyôsaku or keisaku) -- in order to expedite this experience. The unrelenting emphasis on kenshô and the vigorous tactics used to bring it about constitute the single most distinctive (and controversial) feature of the Sanbôkyôdan method. Eido Shimano, recalling Yasutani's first sesshin in Hawaii in 1962, writes:

    The night before sesshin started, Yasutani Roshi said to the participants, "To experience kensho is crucial, but we are so lazy. Therefore, during sesshin we have to set up a special atmosphere so that all participants can go straight ahead toward the goal. First, absolute silence should be observed. Second, you must not look around. Third, forget about the usual courtesies and etiquette" . . . He also told the participants, and later told me privately as well, of the need for frequent use of the keisaku. That five-day sesshin was as hysterical as it was historical. It ended with what Yasutani Roshi considered five kenshô experiences.
    (Nyogen et al. 1976, pp. 184-85)[28]

    ...

    While Yasutani's successors are considerably more reserved in their use of the kyôsaku, the emphasis on kenshô has not diminished, prompting one student of Yamada to refer to the San'un Zendô as a "kenshô machine" (Levine 1992, p. 72).
    ...

    Following the teacher's authentication of kenshô, Sanbôkyôdan students move through a program of 600 to 700 kôans following a format set by Harada based in part on traditional Rinzai models. The practitioner first tackles the "miscellaneous kôans," which consist of approximately twenty-two kôans in fifty-seven parts. He or she then moves through the Mumonkan, Hekiganroku, Shôyôroku, and Denkôroku [?MÆ] kôans, followed by Tôzan's five ranks (Tôzan goi), and three sets of precepts.[30]
    ...

    http://www.terebess.hu/english/sharf.html
    It is just a very different approach from Shikantaza. Furthermore, I believe that the perspective presented in "Three Pillars" and some other early English books on Zen like some by D.T.Suzuki (that once you have a "kenshô", all is resolved at once and the process is instantaneously "done") is very misleading. So, I think that "Three Pillars" has done more harm than good.

    In any event, it is not our way of non-seeking.

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Ryumon
    Member
    • Apr 2007
    • 1811

    #2
    Re: Tying Up Threads

    Thank you for this.

    Kirk
    I know nothing.

    Comment

    • TracyF
      Member
      • Nov 2007
      • 188

      #3
      Re: Tying Up Threads

      Originally posted by Jundo
      But there is a subtle twist involved, a very definite method to our "goalless" madness:

      Not searching does not mean that nothing is found. Quite the contrary! We might say that what is found is something always here, only encountered when we give up the pursuit. I sometimes compare it to the eye glasses perched right on top of one's head all along, though we have hunted for them high and low.

      Attaining radical non-attainment is a very great attainment! The need for nothing else, to be no where else, is a treasure right in hand, the completion of a long journey.

      Forsaking all need for special states of mind is perhaps --THE-- most special state of mind of all. By dropping (maybe for the first time in our lives) all judgments and demands on life, we truly learn to take life 'just-as-it-is', without resistance. There is no lack, nothing missing from the world ... everything is as it is.

      We learn that, even as me make our choices, hold 'likes' and 'dislikes' as a natural part of being human, that is not the only way to be. Hand in hand with that, we learn that there is nothing to choose. Even as we select our path, we know that we are always just where we are.

      Furthermore, by quieting the mind and stilling so many thoughts and emotions that bubble through our heads, we learn to see through many beliefs and experiences we take for granted, to see them as something of a dream and an illusion (the sense of all things having a separate "self" is but one example, as are so many of our ideas of "birth" "death" and "time", many more). Yet we also learn, in our neck of the Buddhist woods, that we must continue to live in a world of "selfs" "birth" "death" and "time" if we are to be human. It is almost as if we know it is a dream, but willingly dream away ... It is absolutely real, for it is our dream.

      We also experience some very "deep" states. We also experience some very "shallow"states. We experience times of great peace or bliss, we experience times of mental agitation and sadness. There are moments when the barriers between self and not-self drop away, there are moments when we are bored silly. Unlike many schools of meditation, we run toward none ... run from none. In fact, we drop all thought of "deep" "shallow" "peaceful" or "agitated", "happy" "sad", one or many.

      In doing so, we experience a presence beyond measure, a Peace that contains peace or agitation, self and not-self dropped away - yet fully present.

      In following this Way, we find that the most trying or ordinary things in life are more wondrous than any storybook magic and miracles. The most difficult or mundane event of life is life itself! Far from needing to escape from this sometimes beautiful, sometimes horrible world ... we find ourselves right at home, going along for the ride. We look out through our eyes, see right through this ordinary world as if looking through glass ... yet see all that we need to see.

      I really needed this. So glad you're back, J.

      Comment

      • Kent
        Member
        • Feb 2008
        • 193

        #4
        Re: Tying Up Threads

        Thank you Jundo for that very clear explanation, very helpful to me. Gassho Kent

        Comment

        • Eika
          Member
          • Sep 2007
          • 806

          #5
          Re: Tying Up Threads

          Many thanks. You should take a vacation more often. Your writing seems particularly clear and precise.

          Jundo wrote:
          We also experience some very "deep" states. We also experience some very "shallow"states. We experience times of great peace or bliss, we experience times of mental agitation and sadness. There are moments when the barriers between self and not-self drop away, there are moments when we are bored silly. Unlike many schools of meditation, we run toward none ... run from none.
          Still working on this . . .


          Gassho,
          Bill
          [size=150:m8cet5u6]??[/size:m8cet5u6] We are involved in a life that passes understanding and our highest business is our daily life---John Cage

          Comment

          • lindabeekeeper
            Member
            • Jan 2008
            • 162

            #6
            Re: Tying Up Threads

            Thanks, Jundo,

            This is very helpful. I have a basic question. Does Soto have "tools" other than "just sitting". For example, in Tibetan practice, mantras are used. Although I was not told why I was chanting a particular mantra, I found it to be a great tool for quieting an uneasy mind, and regaining composure in stressful or combative situations. Now, I pull this out of my utility belt if I feel certain negative emotions arising. Compassion practice is another tool that I see that you are considering adding to Treeleaf training.

            There seems to be a strong tradition of chanting in Zen practice. Is this also a tool?

            Thanks for the clarifications,
            Gassho,
            Linda

            Comment

            • PapaDoc
              Member
              • Sep 2007
              • 45

              #7
              Re: Tying Up Threads

              Jundo, what a wonderful way of clarifying the "game". It was very helpful to me differentiating Soto Zen and my own Tibetan tradition. I see value in both but being clear as to what one is doing seems beneficial regardless. Glad you are back.
              David aka PapaDoc

              Comment

              • Jundo
                Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                • Apr 2006
                • 40719

                #8
                Re: Tying Up Threads

                Originally posted by lindabeekeeper
                Thanks, Jundo,

                This is very helpful. I have a basic question. Does Soto have "tools" other than "just sitting". For example, in Tibetan practice, mantras are used. Although I was not told why I was chanting a particular mantra, I found it to be a great tool for quieting an uneasy mind, and regaining composure in stressful or combative situations. Now, I pull this out of my utility belt if I feel certain negative emotions arising. Compassion practice is another tool that I see that you are considering adding to Treeleaf training.

                There seems to be a strong tradition of chanting in Zen practice. Is this also a tool?
                Hi Linda,

                In Soto Zen, "Just Sitting" Zazen is our one and only Practice!

                But then again, Dogen turned all of life into Zazen, and Zazen into all of life. In other words, everything is Practice, everything is Zazen, if done with right perspective. Cooking is Practice, washing the floors is Practice, calligraphy is Practice, bowing is Practice, brushing our teeth is Practice, chanting is Practice and being silent is Practice. You name it ... Practice. We can expand that to changing diapers, painting the garage, running for the bus. All Practice. All balance in body-mind. All Zazen.

                In Soto Zen ritual, there are not really any mantras as you describe (there are a few that pop up in ceremonies, although many were added after Dogen's time and are not used in the manner you describe I think). We also don't have mental visualizations, particular forms of breathing, special hand and body postures (other than the Lotus Position), use of mandalas or the like as found in Tibetan Buddhism. They are generally thought not necessary, needless complexity that ultimately obscures the directness and simplicity of what we do.

                There is chanting of the Heart Sutra and such, and various other things. When chanting, it is all Zazen, all Practice.

                Western Zen teachers especially have taken to adding a bit more "Metta" and the like Compassion Practice than may have been found in traditional Japanese, Korean and Chinese forms. I think it is a good addition, and leads to a balance that does not take away at all from our other Practices.

                So, it is all Practice.

                Does that make sense?

                Gassho, Jundo
                ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                Comment

                • FeMonky
                  Member
                  • May 2007
                  • 50

                  #9
                  Re: Tying Up Threads

                  Welcome back, Jundo!
                  I've been listening to the Audio Dharma podcast, lately and they have been focusing on Metta. Its a very intriguing practice.
                  but, still, I prefer to just sit.

                  Gassho,
                  Xander

                  Comment

                  • Undo
                    Member
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 495

                    #10
                    Re: Tying Up Threads

                    Furthermore, by quieting the mind and stilling so many thoughts and emotions that bubble through our heads, we learn to see through many beliefs and experiences we take for granted, to see them as something of a dream and an illusion (the sense of all things having a separate "self" is but one example, as are so many of our ideas of "birth" "death" and "time", many more). Yet we also learn, in our neck of the Buddhist woods, that we must continue to live in a world of "selfs" "birth" "death" and "time" if we are to be human. It is almost as if we know it is a dream, but willingly dream away ... It is absolutely real, for it is our dream.

                    We also experience some very "deep" states. We also experience some very "shallow"states. We experience times of great peace or bliss, we experience times of mental agitation and sadness. There are moments when the barriers between self and not-self drop away, there are moments when we are bored silly. Unlike many schools of meditation, we run toward none ... run from none. In fact, we drop all thought of "deep" "shallow" "peaceful" or "agitated", "happy" "sad", one or many.
                    Beautifully clear and resonating.
                    Thanks Jundo

                    Comment

                    • Dojin
                      Member
                      • May 2008
                      • 562

                      #11
                      Re: Tying Up Threads

                      thank you Jundo for this wonderful post.
                      it is really helpful and inspirational to me in a way. since i feel i understand just what you meant.

                      Just sitting, Just practicing.
                      Just being.
                      I gained nothing at all from supreme enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called supreme enlightenment
                      - the Buddha

                      Comment

                      • Stephanie

                        #12
                        Re: Tying Up Threads

                        So if according to Soto Zen philosophy, everything is already & always perfect as it is, is working for social justice and a better world seen as vanity or delusion? If not, how can you reconcile the philosophy that we need not strive to accomplish anything with believing that there are things in the world that "aren't right" and that we should strive to correct?

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 40719

                          #13
                          Re: Tying Up Threads

                          Originally posted by Stephanie
                          So if according to Soto Zen philosophy, everything is already & always perfect as it is, is working for social justice and a better world seen as vanity or delusion? If not, how can you reconcile the philosophy that we need not strive to accomplish anything with believing that there are things in the world that "aren't right" and that we should strive to correct?
                          Hi Steph,

                          I have written about this many times, and I call it "acceptance without acceptance". In our Zen way, we are functioning on several 'frequencies' at once, seemingly contradictory (e.g., having judgments while dropping all judgments, having "likes & dIslikes" while simultaneously dropping all "likes & dislikes", having goals on one "channel" while dropping all goals on the other "channel").

                          Non-Zen folks might think you have to be X or Y, but we are XY (or non-XY) at once! No problem!

                          Like a harmoniously balanced, multi-level schizoid personality!!

                          Here is what I wrote. I gave a little video talk on it too (it was soon after the VIrginia Tech shootings):

                          http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2007/04 ... tance.html

                          Gassho, Jundo
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                          Comment

                          • John
                            Member
                            • Sep 2007
                            • 272

                            #14
                            Re: Tying Up Threads

                            Originally posted by Jundo

                            Western Zen teachers especially have taken to adding a bit more "Metta" and the like Compassion Practice than may have been found in traditional Japanese, Korean and Chinese forms. I think it is a good addition, and leads to a balance that does not take away at all from our other Practices.

                            So, it is all Practice.

                            Does that make sense?
                            Thanks Jundo - it makes very good sense. At the Belfast Zen Centre and at their sesshin they use the Metta and Kanzeon Sutras a lot. I particularly like the guidance contained in the Metta Sutra:

                            Metta Sutta
                            translated by San Francisco Zen Centre


                            This is what should be accomplished by the one who is wise,
                            Who seeks the good and has obtained peace.

                            Let one be strenuous, upright and sincere,
                            Without pride, easily contented and joyous.
                            Let one not be submerged by the things of the world.
                            Let one not take upon one's self the burden of riches.
                            Let one's senses be controlled.
                            Let one be wise, but not puffed up and
                            Let one not desire great possessions even for one's family.
                            Let one do nothing that is mean or that the wise would reprove.

                            May all beings be happy.
                            May they be joyous and live in safety.
                            All living beings, whether weak or strong,
                            In high or middle or low realms of existence,
                            Small or great, visible or invisible,
                            Near or far, born or to be born,
                            May all beings be happy.

                            Let no one deceive another, nor despise any being in any state.
                            Let none by anger or hatred wish harm to another.
                            Even as a mother at the risk of her life
                            Watches over and protects her only child,
                            So with a boundless mind should one cherish all living things,
                            Suffusing love over the entire world,
                            Above, below and all around without limit,
                            So let one cultivate an infinite good will toward the whole world.

                            Standing or walking, sitting or lying down,
                            During all one's waking hours
                            Let one practice the way with gratitude.

                            Not holding to fixed views,
                            Endowed with insight,
                            Freed from sense appetites,
                            One who achieves the way
                            Will be freed from the duality of birth and death.

                            Gassho,
                            John

                            Comment

                            • Stephanie

                              #15
                              Re: Tying Up Threads

                              Originally posted by Jundo
                              Originally posted by Stephanie
                              So if according to Soto Zen philosophy, everything is already & always perfect as it is, is working for social justice and a better world seen as vanity or delusion? If not, how can you reconcile the philosophy that we need not strive to accomplish anything with believing that there are things in the world that "aren't right" and that we should strive to correct?
                              Hi Steph,

                              I have written about this many times, and I call it "acceptance without acceptance". In our Zen way, we are functioning on several 'frequencies' at once, seemingly contradictory (e.g., having judgments while dropping all judgments, having "likes & dIslikes" while simultaneously dropping all "likes & dislikes", having goals on one "channel" while dropping all goals on the other "channel").

                              Non-Zen folks might think you have to be X or Y, but we are XY (or non-XY) at once! No problem!

                              Like a harmoniously balanced, multi-level schizoid personality!!

                              Here is what I wrote. I gave a little video talk on it too (it was soon after the VIrginia Tech shootings):

                              http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2007/04 ... tance.html

                              Gassho, Jundo

                              Jundo,

                              Gassho--I like your explanation, and can relate to it, but it doesn't satisfy this sense I get that the Nishijima school is fairly nihilistic--if anything it enhances that sense. If the philosophical basis for this practice is that reality is fine as it is and we don't need to strive to attain anything, I'm left scratching my head as to where the "without acceptance" part of your equation comes from.

                              Other Buddhist schools might say that our fundamental nature is compassion, and that it arises of its own accord when we remove the impediments to it. But how would you, being what I would describe as a skeptic materialist, justify such an idea? If you believe that mind is only an epiphenomenon of matter, that compassion is just mirror neurons and empathy, that the basis of practice is letting go of the struggle to change or improve oneself or one's mind, could you not just say that trying to improve the world is a sort of vanity?

                              And even if not, where's the inspiration for such efforts in the teaching of your school? Why should we want to help others? If we only live one life, if mind only is a product of the brain, if we know this world is going to die out at some point anyway, couldn't you say then that compassion is mere sentiment? Nothing to do with the nature of reality? That we might help others because it feels good and promotes a better world, but that at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything in the bigger picture of the universe?

                              Stephanie

                              Comment

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