Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

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  • Tb
    Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 3186

    Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

    Hi.
    I've been reading "the three pillars of zen".
    intereresting book.
    One question it raised was is shikantaza a koanpractice.
    I think so, but what do you think?

    May the force be with you
    Tb
    Life is our temple and its all good practice
    Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/
  • chicanobudista
    Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 864

    #2
    Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

    Originally posted by Filur
    One question it raised was is shikantaza a koanpractice.
    I think so, but what do you think?
    Can you ellaborate?

    From my basic understanding of Zen Buddhism, koan practice relates to a very particular method.
    paz,
    Erik


    Flor de Nopal Sangha

    Comment

    • Stephanie

      #3
      Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

      Originally posted by HezB
      Is reality a koan?
      Um, yes.

      And doesn't the title of "Genjokoan" say as much?

      Comment

      • Tb
        Member
        • Jan 2008
        • 3186

        #4
        Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

        Originally posted by HezB
        What does reality have to say on the matter?

        Regards,

        H.
        A lot of nothing...

        May the force be with you.
        Tb
        Life is our temple and its all good practice
        Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

        Comment

        • Tb
          Member
          • Jan 2008
          • 3186

          #5
          Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

          Originally posted by chicanobudista
          Originally posted by Filur
          One question it raised was is shikantaza a koanpractice.
          I think so, but what do you think?
          Can you ellaborate?

          From my basic understanding of Zen Buddhism, koan practice relates to a very particular method.
          Well, yes, you might say it does (and some may do), but that is like looking in the water and see a reflection, it misses the point...
          During koanpractice you "meditate on a question" which is exactly what you do during shikantaza, the question being you.

          May the force be with you
          Tb
          Life is our temple and its all good practice
          Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

          Comment

          • Tb
            Member
            • Jan 2008
            • 3186

            #6
            Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

            Originally posted by HezB
            Is reality a koan?

            Hardly.

            Regards,

            Harry.
            The question being WHAT is reality?

            May the force be with you.
            Tb
            Life is our temple and its all good practice
            Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

            Comment

            • will
              Member
              • Jun 2007
              • 2331

              #7
              Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

              You know. I used to be a lot better at Shikantaza before I started Zen.

              G,W
              [size=85:z6oilzbt]
              To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
              To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
              To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
              To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
              [/size:z6oilzbt]

              Comment

              • chicanobudista
                Member
                • Mar 2008
                • 864

                #8
                Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

                Originally posted by Filur

                During koanpractice you "meditate on a question" which is exactly what you do during shikantaza, the question being you.
                But I have never asked.
                And maybe you are right.
                And maybe I am practicing too much sloppy Zen.
                But.
                Really. That's not why I do shikantaza.
                To question "who is me" during shikantaza is to search for an object or at minimum distracting.
                To ask that question, I don't need shikantaza.
                IMHO.
                paz,
                Erik


                Flor de Nopal Sangha

                Comment

                • Eika
                  Member
                  • Sep 2007
                  • 806

                  #9
                  Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

                  Originally posted by chicanobudista
                  Originally posted by Filur

                  During koanpractice you "meditate on a question" which is exactly what you do during shikantaza, the question being you.
                  But I have never asked.
                  And maybe you are right.
                  And maybe I am practicing too much sloppy Zen.
                  But.
                  Really. That's not why I do shikantaza.
                  To question "who is me" during shikantaza is to search for an object or at minimum distracting.
                  To ask that question, I don't need shikantaza.
                  IMHO.
                  I think I agree with Erik. "Who am 'I'?" is a koan, but shikantaza is about not asking that question, but instead existing in life as it is without questioning it. Dropping the question gives us the answer. (BTW--I'm posting all kinds of crap lately that I never thought I would ever say...the last sentence is a prime example. Sounds uppity, but that's the truth as I see it. Zen is a strange thing). :|

                  Gassho,
                  Bill
                  [size=150:m8cet5u6]??[/size:m8cet5u6] We are involved in a life that passes understanding and our highest business is our daily life---John Cage

                  Comment

                  • Dojin
                    Member
                    • May 2008
                    • 562

                    #10
                    Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

                    shikantaza is just sitting.
                    koan is just koan.

                    in koan practice you sit with a question and try to become one with it untill you understand the question and you do not need the answer anymore, you dont need to search for it. you just know it, it is a part of you.

                    in shikantaza you just sit. no question, no answer, no you, no not you, no world, no emptiness, no nothing or anything.
                    just sit. a koan is ment to bring sudden realization and enlightenment, zazen is just sitting without the need for such things as enlightenment or not.

                    thats just my take on the subject of course
                    I gained nothing at all from supreme enlightenment, and for that very reason it is called supreme enlightenment
                    - the Buddha

                    Comment

                    • Jundo
                      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 39441

                      #11
                      Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

                      I am on my way back to Japan! Just a day or so more ...

                      And when I get there, I'll straighten out misguided beliefs, purge all heresies, shut down ideologically incorrect discussions, delete mention of unapproved books and burn many folks at the stake ... :twisted:

                      Gassho, Cardinal Jundo, Enforcer of Doctrinal Purity
                      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                      Comment

                      • Stephanie

                        #12
                        Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

                        Originally posted by HezB
                        What does reality have to say on the matter?

                        Regards,

                        H.
                        An earwig crawled out of my box of dental floss this morning.

                        There's a special on banana puddin' milkshakes at Krystal.

                        Comment

                        • chicanobudista
                          Member
                          • Mar 2008
                          • 864

                          #13
                          Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

                          Originally posted by Stephanie
                          Originally posted by HezB
                          What does reality have to say on the matter?

                          Regards,

                          H.
                          An earwig crawled out of my box of dental floss this morning.

                          There's a special on banana puddin' milkshakes at Krystal.
                          Yesterday, my nopalli was in full bloom.



                          I had no questions.
                          paz,
                          Erik


                          Flor de Nopal Sangha

                          Comment

                          • Stephanie

                            #14
                            Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

                            I had some questions when that earwig crawled out of my dental floss, but I decided I was probably better off not to ask them... :shock:

                            Comment

                            • chicanobudista
                              Member
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 864

                              #15
                              Re: Is shikantaza a koanpractice?

                              Originally posted by Stephanie
                              I had some questions when that earwig crawled out of my dental floss, but I decided I was probably better off not to ask them... :shock:



                              Earwig....do you have Buddha nature?
                              paz,
                              Erik


                              Flor de Nopal Sangha

                              Comment

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