Why we keep politics outside our Sangha doors (a discussion) ...

[Jundo]

I also would like to put a cap on this discussion in about a day, when folks have had a good chance to express themselves and say how they feel. Otherwise, these kinds of discussions tend to become the very thing we are talking about avoiding here. Thank you for all your input on this.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Shoshin]

I think the best answer is that we avoid ALMOST EVERYTHING that has to do with politics and debates about policy. Sorry, we will not talk about tariffs or tik tok or taxes or DEI or immigration policy (although we may talk about the plight of immigrants as people fleeing terrible situations) or BREXIT or gas prices. However, it is hard to be specific, hard to nail it down, so easier to say what we DO talk about as the exceptions: Certain "big picture" limited topics which touch on the PRECEPTS: The wrongness of war in general, poverty in general, homelessness in general, excess consumption in general, failing to take care of this planet as our temple in general, the plight of the displaced in general, discrimination against people for who they are in general.

We may briefly touch on some "hot button" topics like vegetarianism, abortion, guns, whether one can be police or a soldier and a Buddhist, in light of the PRECEPTS but in a civil and calm fashion, agreeing to disagree. We try to avoid long, this side/that side debates on these issues, and try to see that there are good views on all sides.

Otherwise, generally, we avoid all politics.

Let me clarify, as to Matt (Hosai), there were three or four prior cautions by me to him in the last few weeks on overtly political materials (derisive photos of Mr. Trump, for example) that he posted where I asked him not to do so. So, when he continued today after prior cautions, I took it down. After awhile, I must be firm in these things. Sorry, we have this policy even if some folks which to stamp their feet because they do not like it. It seems so far that the majority are okay with it, so I ask everyone to abide by it. Thank you.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

PS - I will just add that that I think you can see why we try to keep civil speech here, and avoid these topics, just looking at the tone and accusing and way of talking in this very thread when people do get into these debates. This is a Buddhist Sangha, not X or Facebook.

Thanks so much.
It helps me understand better what we are asked not to talk about.
I trust your reasons and I'll respect that.

Gassho,
Satlah

[Ryumon]

if you want to discuss political issues that concern you, and I want to discuss political issues that concern me, and she wants to discuss political issues that concern her, and they want to discuss political issues that concern them… things get too messy. There are plenty of forums to discuss politics. This place is about zen.

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat Lah

[Bion]

we can talk about it to our hearts content in theoretically private messages...

I can assure you that your PMs are your PMs and no one here wastes their time spying on anyone's conversations. Just cause the software has a certain list of privileges, it does not mean any admin is actually engaging in a suspicious behavior. We are all volunteers here, Hosai, simple folks working together to make a sangha happen. You are absolutely entitled to your doubts and suspicions. We all have experience with online platforms and we know they can be used in all the wrong ways, even by people who THINK that we they do is good or who can justify wrong actions for themselves. Nevertheless, we function here based on the trust that we all do our best to abide by the precepts and that we are a sangha of honest practitioners. I just really wanted to say that directly to you, with the hope you can have some trust in my honesty.

Gassho
sat lah

[Hosai]

I can assure you that your PMs are your PMs and no one here wastes their time spying on anyone's conversations. Just cause the software has a certain list of privileges, it does not mean any admin is actually engaging in a suspicious behavior. We are all volunteers here, Hosai, simple folks working together to make a sangha happen. You are absolutely entitled to your doubts and suspicions. We all have experience with online platforms and we know they can be used in all the wrong ways, even by people who THINK that we they do is good or who can justify wrong actions for themselves. Nevertheless, we function here based on the trust that we all do our best to abide by the precepts and that we are a sangha of honest practitioners. I just really wanted to say that directly to you, with the hope you can have some trust in my honesty.

Gassho
sat lah

Then I would like to see the ethical policies (above and beyond the precepts) placed somewhere visible to all indicating that these admin privileges exist and how these privileges are used and who is using them. Any company or organisation worth its salt, dealing with vulnerable messed up human beings would have already done this.

I know I have absolutely no power in this situation but I'm not going to let this one go... and I will remind you and others of it from time to time until it is taken care of... I will take this as my personal mission here....

I like it here and if I'm to feel safe posting anything but cat pictures, I need to know what the situation is and where all the cameras are and who's doing what. I can't stop you from manipulating my messages or spying... But I think it's fair to ask for transparency FOR ALL. And there's no reason I can't remind you all of it from time to time regardless of whether you heed my suggestions...

And if I don't like it, of course I can leave.... But especially if I don't like it, I suppose I can stay... (and due to Zen training I have learnt how to "sit" for a VERY long time in unpleasant and uncomfortable circumstances)....... I don't need people to like me to be here... being likable is way overrated...

_/\_
sat/ah
hōsai

[Jundo]

Our ethical policies, and our Ethics Oversight Committee, is listed here. You are free to bring any matter to them.

https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/treeleaf/treeleaf-community-topics-about-all-of-life/2858-treeleaf-ethics-committee-complaint-box

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Hoseki]

Good post for a Newfie....I can't respond to it really... But You better watch yourself with that Keffiyeh... someone might delete your Avatar...

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."



_/\_
sat/ah
hōsai

You know, I think I've worn that keffiyeh in every avatar I've had and no one has mentioned it before. It's also appears to be aging better than me.

As a side note, Newfoundland isn't all kissing cods and mummering. We do other things like complain about the fog or wander around in the fog or look for deals on fog lights and various other fog related activities

I hope no one minds the joke. It's sort of my default response to tension, and fear, and joy and sleepiness. Or just being awake generally. My wife even says I make funny noises in my sleep. ... I'll stop now.

Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah

[Hosai]

Our ethical policies, and our Ethics Oversight Committee, is listed here. You are free to bring any matter to them.

https://forum.treeleaf.org/forum/treeleaf/treeleaf-community-topics-about-all-of-life/2858-treeleaf-ethics-committee-complaint-box

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

Yup I read it at the outset.... not that I think it will make much difference but I will draught an "Responsible Technology Use" section and send it to your board for consideration.

_/\_
sat/ah
hōsai

[Ryumon]

An aside: now I have to get used to a bunch of new names again... Sigh. :-)

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

[Shoshin]

An aside: now I have to get used to a bunch of new names again... Sigh. :-)

Gassho,

Ryūmon (Kirk)

Sat Lah

Ha,ha same
Gassho
Satlah

[Taigen]

As someone who works largely with diverse and often marginalized young people, I just want to add:

A truly politics free space, insofar as that is even possible, is a privilege. And it's one that not everyone shares.

For many, their politics follow them through the door because their politics are wrapped up in their body, mind, or relationships. These things are not so easy to put down.

Avoiding criticisms or endorsements of specific people or parties seems reasonable in this context. That being said I think it will be difficult to abide by the precepts and never comment on the harms done by governments and policies, and I think it is appropriate to bring concerns and opportunities for support and action to this community.

Gassho,
Taigen (Benjamin)
SatLah

[Seiko]

As I am only a novice priest here, you would be well advised to take my comments with a pinch of salt.

I have a very strong view on whether posts on politics should be allowed here.

A lot of us do daily metta practice - for our lovers, families, friends, strangers, difficult people, opponents, enemies. This includes people who cause harm - perpetrators - who cheat us, hurt us, criminals, murderers, dictators, terrorists, as well as those who hold views which are politically opposed to our own.

I vote for metta please - for all of those people.

I give no votes to posts about the pros and cons of any particular political groups.

This is my personal view.

Gasshō, Seiko, stlah

[Jundo]

Thank you all.

This conversation was helpful, but appears to have run its course. I hope I explained the reason for this policy well. Most folks seem to understand.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah