[FutureBuddha (5)] Updating Buddhism (with Buddhist Miracles through Science)

[Tai Do]

Tai Do

I understand that home meals will be much different. Our home meals take in ideas from many places, nothing like the meals of my youth, I also strive to reduce my consumption of meat to lessen my environmental impact on the earth. That Brazilian restauraunt also has a nice salad bar and my wife likes the fried plantain and pineapple.as you said maybe very different from home life in Brazil

Doshin
St

PS if I ever make it to a Brazil to experience your wonderful biodiversity we must share a meal. And if you make it North I will prepare one! I will spare you my field menu of canned tuna

You’ll certainly be my guest! And I’ll love to go visit you if I ever go to the US.

Gassho,
Tai Do (Mateus)
Satlah

[Spiritdove]

I am so happy you understand I was concerned because after I made that comment I could no longer comment anymore when I logged back on the forum and my privileges were all off. Found out this afternoon it was a glitch which has since been fixed. I wanted to check if I said something wrong. I don't want to criticize but I enjoy sharing thoughts and I listen well to the replies that could correct me if I am wrong. I'm happy your ok with my post because a lot of times I'm not good a group discussions. I came from a religion that when I left I had a fall out because I shared a "God moment" with a fellow christian. I said today coming to church on my motorcycle its so beautiful and peaceful that I thought to myself the day is perfect and I am perfect. Well they jumped on me about the perfect comment on myself saying "No one is perfect but God!" I meant the same as I just said that in that moment . "I had no idea of lack" so basically I smiled to them "inside raging with anger " and said my goodbyes and left the church never to return again. That brought up that memory when the word perfect was mentioned. We can have no idea of lack yet still progress and grow. I feel.

Marj "Spiritdove"
Sat Today

[Jundo]

Tai Do

I understand that home meals will be much different. Our home meals take in ideas from many places, nothing like the meals of my youth, I also strive to reduce my consumption of meat to lessen my environmental impact on the earth. That Brazilian restauraunt also has a nice salad bar and my wife likes the fried plantain and pineapple.as you said maybe very different from home life in Brazil

Doshin
St

PS if I ever make it to a Brazil to experience your wonderful biodiversity we must share a meal. And if you make it North I will prepare one! I will spare you my field menu of canned tuna

A small portion of my book deals with artificial and lab grown (sounds delicious!) meat substitutes, and the implications for Buddhism. Actually, if you visit the big Japanese and Chinese monasteries, they have been making imitation chicken, fish and beef from mushrooms and such for generations. Tastes so close to the real thing! Thus, not a violation of the Precepts to eat imitation meat, it seems.

So, I look forward to lab grown stem cell based Brazilian Alcatra and Vaca Atolada! ...

ps - Soylent Green was set in 2022!




Gassho, J

stlah

[Josh7]

Thus, not a violation of the Precepts to eat imitation meat, it seems.

Gassho, J

stlah

Is it true that being vegetarian is less common with Theravada and Tibetan Buddhism, and is more common in Mahayana Buddhism? I thought that I have read that somewhere before...just curious what others' thoughts are on this if this is true.

If I am accidentally spreading non-truths, please forgive me!

Gassho,
Jeff

sat/lah

[Jundo]

Is it true that being vegetarian is less common with Theravada and Tibetan Buddhism, and is more common in Mahayana Buddhism? I thought that I have read that somewhere before...just curious what others' thoughts are on this if this is true.

If I am accidentally spreading non-truths, please forgive me!

Gassho,
Jeff

sat/lah

Yes, the South Asian rules, purporting to be from the Buddha's time, basically say that a monk (who must accept whatever is placed in his bowl) may eat most kinds of meat unless the monks knows that the animal was killed especially for him. There is no rule against lay people eating meat in South Asia that I am familiar with. In fact, the Buddha is said to have specifically rejected attempts by Devadatta, his cousin and brother-in-law, to impose strict vegetarianism in parallel to the Jains in an effort to unseat the Buddha as Sangha leader. Tibetans and Thais are also not usually vegetarian. Japanese are not vegetarian, especially since the reforms of 150 years ago. The Chinese became strictly vegetarian when Buddhism came there, in a process of imposing rules and interpretations on the Precept against Taking Life which were stricter than the older Indian interpretations.

You can read more about this here (in an essay by Barbara O'Brien):

https://www.learnreligions.com/buddhism-and-vegetarianism-449731

We have had many other discussions of this in the Forum over the years. Here is a very recent one:

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?19156-Rationale-for-not-Eating-Meat-in-Buddhism

By the way, my reason for writing my "Zen Of the Future / Building the Future Buddha" book is precisely to help PREVENT the world from any sort of dystopian future, Soylent Green and such! We should build a Pure Land ... not "Escape from New York" or "Mad Max" ...

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Tokan]

Thanks for the movie tip, it is available to download on MUBI in case anyone can't find it elsewhere.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[Josh7]

Great info and great article! I really liked this point that the author made:

“ For example, let's say you visit your elderly grandmother, whom you have not seen for a long time. You arrive at her home and find that she has cooked what had been your favorite dish when you were a child—stuffed pork chops. She doesn't do much cooking anymore because her elderly body doesn't move around the kitchen so well. But it is the dearest wish of her heart to give you something special and watch you dig into those stuffed pork chops the way you used to. She has been looking forward to this for weeks.

I say that if you hesitate to eat those pork chops for even a second, you are no Buddhist.”

Very cleverly worded and thought-provoking for sure!

Your history lesson is really interesting! It’s interesting how things can be shaped by different cultures for different reasons.

Hopefully the future doesn’t involve soylent green or mad maxes or 1984’s!!

I am looking forward to reading your book Jundo! 😊😊

Gassho
Jeff
STlah

[Ryumon]

Thus, not a violation of the Precepts to eat imitation meat, it seems.

Unless it becomes sentient and develops emergent consciousness in the factory…

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat

[Jundo]

Without giving a spoiler to the movie Soylent Green, however, for anyone who has not ever seen the movie, I will just say that Soylent Green itself would have violated the old Vinaya prohibition on meat eating.

Why?

Read the following for a clue ...








SPOILER: The Mahāvagga (Mv.VI.23.9-15) forbids ten kinds of flesh: that of human beings, elephants, horses, dogs, snakes, lions, tigers, leopards, bears, and hyenas.



Lets just say that Soylent Green is not hyenas.


Gassho, J

stlah

[Veronica]

just for tradition’s sake

Gassho, J

stlah

The word tradition speaks respectfully toward things that might otherwise cause disagreement. I can respect and value some of the traditions because they were formed by wonderful people who were forging a new way of life. And I am reassured that I don't need to believe in the magic. I don't have a personal attachment to the traditions of Buddhism, because I am new and quite "western". But I also see beauty in having a bit of mystery and tradition. It is likely that the traditional elements will continue to change over time, at different rates in different parts of the world.

Veronica
stlah

[Mokuseki]

What a wonderful and thought provoking discussion that covered so many very contentious issues that deeply affect the Sangha and Buddhism in general. From my (probably very limited)understanding, Buddhism has embraced change as it moved across the world and through the years. Its teachings were adapted to be more "acceptable" to the regions in which it was becoming established but the sacred tenets remained the same. So it is with the establishment in the West. All the main religions and philosophies that are established in the West are not born of that place or time- Islam and Christianity are both Middle Eastern in origin, Stoicism is Ancient Greek and Roman and so on. Yet all of these have one thing in common - that peace and the idea of doing no harm, and collective help and consciousness is the key to our development. Without sounding like a cheesy song lyric, love is the key to our survival. I was drawn to the Dharma many years ago because it so precisely outlined the way to achieve that goal, through meditation practise and study. There was and is a practical path. That path will not be diverted by any future developments in science, or technology because the Dharma both co-exists with those elements and transcends them. As for the very provocative and a most often questioned perspective of whether Buddhists should be vegetarians/vegans, as a Western Buddhist it is the most common question that I get asked - "should I be a vegetarian as a Buddhist". Obviously this is all down to circumstance; if I were reliant on alms for my sustenance and someone gave me a meal that contained meat that had been prepared for their family meal and they wanted to share it with me, then I would indeed be a poor Buddhist if I rejected that kind offer. I am, very fortunately, not in that position and am able to make the choice not to eat animals and try where I can to follow the shojin ryori diet. I feel that part of the purpose and duty of Buddhists going forward, is to fully adhere to the Precepts for the benefit of the environment and a decrease in meat production is a scientifically proven path to reducing climate change, ultimately taking the Precept of "doing no harm" to a high level. Buddhism is "future proof" - the Precepts are designed to be for the benefit of the world in perpetuity and work along side all scientific developments.
Thank for all the wisdom and discussion in this post and the acceptance and compassion in the Sangha.
Gassho
Sat today in the EuroKiwi SSR and the FSR

[Spiritdove]

it should be that stuff is toxic . Only they didn't have it back in time of the Buddha. Unless I am thinking of process meats.

Marj "Spiritdove"
Sat Today

[Jundo]

By the way, on Soylent Green, 2022, I happened to see this story yesterday. Maybe fiction does become reality?

In fact, it sounds like a wonderful idea. Traditional Buddhist cremation is --not-- that good for the environment, creating smoke and air pollutants and wasting valuable nutrients for the soil. Chemically embalmed burial is also a problem.

New York governor legalizes human composting after death

State becomes sixth to pass legislation since 2019 and gives New Yorkers access to an alternative, green method of burial

... But the departed may not be simply tossed on the compost heap: remains must be delivered to a cemetery corporation certified as an organic reduction facility, suitably contained and ventilated, and not containing “a battery, battery pack, power cell, radioactive implant, or radioactive device”. ...

... In most cases, the deceased is placed into a reusable, semi-open vessel containing suitable bedding – wood chips, alfalfa or straw – ideal for microbes to go about their work. At the end of the process, a heaped cubic yard of nutrient-dense soil, equivalent to 36 bags of soil is produced that can then be used as fertilizer.

“Every single thing we can do to turn people away from concrete liners and fancy caskets and embalming, we ought to do and be supportive of,” said Michelle Menter, manager at Greensprings Natural Cemetery Preserve in central New York. Menter said her business would strongly consider the method. ... “A process that is perfectly appropriate for returning vegetable trimmings to the earth is not necessarily appropriate for human bodies,” Dennis Poust, executive director of the organization, said in a statement.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/01/new-york-governor-legalizes-human-composting-after-death

Gassho, J

stlah

[Spiritdove]

My mother was cremated in 2014, No funeral no obituary and her ashes are in my yard underneath the big oak tree and beside her beloved dogs ashes as well. . Im not sure perhaps that process is not environment friendly.. She wanted me to put her in the way of her native american ancestors by burning her remains burial platform in wichita mountains west of Lawton oklahoma and of course that is not legal.in the tradition of apache and most native americans The smoke sends the body upward in their journey. The Apache buried corpses swiftly and burned the deceased's house and possessions. The mourning family purified itself ritually and moved to a new place to escape their dead family member's ghost. Of course its just a cultural thing. Mom did believe in the Great Spirit and said shaman came to her a week before she passed. Who knows. Im sure she experienced something in her mind. A bird tried to come into my house the night before by hitting the window over and over and thats another old myth of impending death.

indian-platform_burial_7eb90946-23c1-404b-9ef5-2c8262990063_grande.jpg
Marj "Spiritdove"
Sat today

[Onki]

By the way, on Soylent Green, 2022, I happened to see this story yesterday. Maybe fiction does become reality?

In fact, it sounds like a wonderful idea. Traditional Buddhist cremation is --not-- that good for the environment, creating smoke and air pollutants and wasting valuable nutrients for the soil. Chemically embalmed burial is also a problem.








Gassho, J

stlah

I absolutely love this idea of more environmentally conscious burials. My wife and I are into the green burial movement. There are so many more ways to deal with a corpse nowadays then every before. Human compost, Aquamation, and green burial to name a few.

Gasshō,

Onki

Sat today