[Future] Jundo: The Only Way to End War Forever ...

[Jundo]

The Only Way to End War Forever ...

The time is quickly coming in which we must treat violence done in overflowing hate, acts of extreme selfishness and insufficient empathy of human to human, as diseases, medical conditions. We must change human nature to reduce our propensity to act in anger, enhance feelings of love and strengthen greatly our feelings of empathy toward the suffering of others ... all values professed by Buddhism and so many other religions and humanistic philosophies for thousands of years.

The only ultimately effective way to change human nature, the drives and impulses of body and mind, like any medical condition, is through our finding, developing, confirming and deploying SAFE, TESTED and ETHICAL, MEDICALLY ESTABLISHED (emphasis on those words, they must not be ignored or neglected) cures and treatments for the disease where they arise in human physiology, like any deadly disease. Too many are dying by bombs, other violence, hunger, poverty and our disdain of others. A dream until now, the technologies to do so are today on the horizon.

Buddhism itself, via its traditional methods of chants and meditation, prayer and precepts, is thoroughly incapable of doing what needs to be done on wide scale, for the billions of sentient being ... but new "expedient means" are fast coming which will allow us to change the human heart.

That is the only way which will show itself effective to end war forever ... other than, of course, our self-destruction as a species in war itself.

Peace and Pressed Palms, Jundo Cohen

~~~~

(I am not afraid to discuss these issues, their potential and the ethics behind them, should anyone wish.)

PS - I am fascinated by the good Buddhist folks who would "knee jerk" (another neurological response) reject out of hand any good means to save countless babies from dying from bombs, famine and more. It should be considered and discussed, at very least.

PPS ... To all those who say that people will never agree to voluntarily put behavior altering substances into themselves because it makes them feel better, healthier ... even at great expense ... Hmmm. I wonder ....

OZenPic.png

[Jundo]

PS -

A wish with real science and med-tech behind it these days.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK618373/

[Junsho]

Hi Roshi,

This looks great on paper, but I’m not sure if a compassion "pill" would work in reality. Maybe for everyday actions, but many acts of violence are carried out by governments, simply by signing a document. It seems to me that just the existence of a government is unconditionally connected to violence.

Since ancient times, governments have been led by kings, emperors, maniacs, etc., fomenting war driven by greed and hunger for power. They feel nothing when signing orders to kill people, believing it’s necessary.

Do you know why? Because governments have a monopoly on violence. An individual alone can do little, but a government can destroy a life if a bureaucrat decides to.

Here’s a practical example: According to the Pact of San José, nobody should be arrested for debt. This rule works well when debt involves private companies. But if you owe money to the government, like evading taxes, they will use all their power to destroy your life mercilessly.

Maybe some empathy-based medication could help on a small scale. But on a larger scale, only when the institution called government falls will violence decrease significantly. Yet, the fall of governments can’t happen through any revolution; it depends on decentralized information.

The internet is one of the biggest reasons for this, making them to slowly lose power, which is why governments worldwide are increasing their violence and social control against individuals.

Anyway, I think I’ve already talked too much. Even though this view is very libertarian, it’s just my personal Buddhist perspective—a view against all violence and a hope for a better future filled with compassion and peace among all people.

Gassho and deep bows.
SatLah

[Jundo]

No simple "pill," but yet many and diverse treatments and cures are possible ... like for any disease, from diverse forms of cancer to kidney disease.

Government systems will change when the degree of empathy among the people, including among bureaucrats, changes. It is unlikely to happen in the opposite direction. It is a revolution of the human heart, a revolution of love and caring, which ... unlike any revolution of the past ... begins within us, not outside.

Even libertarianism (I consider myself one on many issues) has failed because, when one leaves people to their own devices, one realizes just how selfish and cruel people can be. On the other hand, begin with people who are less selfish, more caring, empathetic, loving, and the society will be very different.

In any case, if it works ... makes the world better ... reduces war and poverty, protects children and other innocents ... then it should be seriously pursued and considered as a way.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Jundo]

PPS ... To all those who say that people will never agree to voluntarily put behavior altering substances into themselves because it makes them feel better, healthier ... even at great expense ... Hmmm. I wonder ....

OZenPic.png

[Ryumon]

The problem with the weight-loss medications - which do show remarkable results, and not just for weight loss - is that when you stop, your weight goes back to where it was before you started. So you enter a cycle of taking a medication for the rest of your life, and enriching pharmaceutical companies. Yes, patents will eventually run out, but not for a while, especially as newer drugs are released.

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat Lah

[Jundo]

The problem with the weight-loss medications - which do show remarkable results, and not just for weight loss - is that when you stop, your weight goes back to where it was before you started. So you enter a cycle of taking a medication for the rest of your life, and enriching pharmaceutical companies. Yes, patents will eventually run out, but not for a while, especially as newer drugs are released.

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat Lah

Oh, yes, Ozempic is a very imperfect drug. I raised it as an example, not to say how wonderful it is for weight loss, but merely as an example of how millions and millions of people are willing to VOLUNTARILY take such a substance into their bodies, with great inconvenience and expense, because they are in search of health and a feeling of well-being.

Hopefully, there will be better, more effective and long lasting, better designed with less side effects, possibilities in the future.

Gassho, J
stlah

[Ryumon]

I think there’s two reasons why people take this. One is for health reasons, and the other is for body image reasons. It’s about looking better for other people.

Also, there’s a lot of stigma about being obese. It is often treated as an illness caused by lack of willpower, whereas that is not the cause.

I read recently that some drug companies are working on a drug like this in pill form that will be easier to take and less expensive. But apparently there will still be the same problem of weight coming back when you stop taking them.

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat Lah

[Hoseki]

Hi Roshi,

This looks great on paper, but I’m not sure if a compassion "pill" would work in reality. Maybe for everyday actions, but many acts of violence are carried out by governments, simply by signing a document. It seems to me that just the existence of a government is unconditionally connected to violence.

Since ancient times, governments have been led by kings, emperors, maniacs, etc., fomenting war driven by greed and hunger for power. They feel nothing when signing orders to kill people, believing it’s necessary.

Do you know why? Because governments have a monopoly on violence. An individual alone can do little, but a government can destroy a life if a bureaucrat decides to.

Here’s a practical example: According to the Pact of San José, nobody should be arrested for debt. This rule works well when debt involves private companies. But if you owe money to the government, like evading taxes, they will use all their power to destroy your life mercilessly.

Maybe some empathy-based medication could help on a small scale. But on a larger scale, only when the institution called government falls will violence decrease significantly. Yet, the fall of governments can’t happen through any revolution; it depends on decentralized information.

The internet is one of the biggest reasons for this, making them to slowly lose power, which is why governments worldwide are increasing their violence and social control against individuals.

Anyway, I think I’ve already talked too much. Even though this view is very libertarian, it’s just my personal Buddhist perspective—a view against all violence and a hope for a better future filled with compassion and peace among all people.

Gassho and deep bows.
SatLah

Hi,

I understand your frustration but governments will always exist in some fashion. Once we move beyond a handful of people, rules need to be formalized and made explicit (laws), division of labor will occur and surpluses of resources will have to be managed/protected and unfortunately force may have to be used to maintain peace. Many of us have grown up with rhetoric that portrays our governments as incompetent thieves who are simultaneously all powerful. But if you talk to people with government jobs you can get a sense of what they do and why it's important. That's not to say everyone will agree with every action but that's true of any group of people. I'm Canadian and find much of what my government does to be distasteful and short sighted.

Also governments don't always act against the interests of the populace. If anything when it appears they are doing so it's because they are working for the interests of a particular set of population at the expense of the rest. For example, currently in the US 50% of the consumer spending is done by the top 10% of wealth holders. Those people are doing OK! by their government. But most of the rest of the citizens are not. We talk a big game about democracy but we're still most of our states are still run at the behest of collection of oligarchies. Over the past 40 years in particular the wealth has been pumped upwards leading to unrest as well as a degradation of services. This provides "evidence" of the uselessness of government. The republicans called it "starving the beast". The idea is that funding decreases would lower effectiveness and thus people will come to resent these services and turn to private actors. If you want an example of a government looking out for it's people it's China. It's portrayed in our media as this dystopian nightmare and they certainly do things I don't like but they have also been steadily increasing the living standards of their people. They do this in part by focusing on their productive capabilities to generate wealth rather than what we do here which is money manipulation with stock buy backs and the like. Contrast that with the US where people frequently go into bankruptcy because they got sick and lost their medical insurance.

Combine this with most of the news media being own by a few corporations that are run by the owner class and these views start to become background noise that creates the framework many people see the world through. I don't know if you've ever read Manufacturing Consent but it goes into detail about how this was done (it's pre-internet though.)

I hope this doesn't come across as aggressive. I was quite enamored with the 20th century Anarchists as a young man so I think I feel where your coming from. But I've come (perhaps erroneously) that the solution isn't no government but one with a much flatter economy where single individuals don't have the kind of power a Musk or Gates has.


Gassho,

Hoseki

Sattoday/lah

[Hoseki]

The problem with the weight-loss medications - which do show remarkable results, and not just for weight loss - is that when you stop, your weight goes back to where it was before you started. So you enter a cycle of taking a medication for the rest of your life, and enriching pharmaceutical companies. Yes, patents will eventually run out, but not for a while, especially as newer drugs are released.

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat Lah

Hi,

I know people are put off with the return of the weight gain but it might just be the cost. I have to take anti-depressants and Concernta (a stimulant) most days to function more or less normally. It will likely be for the rest of my life. But I also have to wear glasses which will likely be for the rest of my life. So maybe it's not a big deal (provided the side effects don't outweigh the benifits).

Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah

[Jundo]

I take inspiration from this Lotus Sutra parable (Chapter 16), of the medicine to cure the poisons ...

~~~

There is an excellent doctor. He is wise, knowledgeable, his prescriptions are effective, and he has skillfully cured a variety of diseases. This man has many sons, say ten, twenty, or even one hundred in number. For some reason, he has to go far off to another country and, while he is away, his children, whom he has left behind, drink some poison. The poison starts to take effect and they roll on the ground in agony. “At this moment their father returns home. Some of the children who have taken the poison are delirious, while others are not. ... [The children say,] "In our ignorance we took this poison by mistake. We entreat you to cure and save us, and restore us to life." Seeing his children suffering in this way, the father searches for beneficial herbs possessed of good color, aroma, and flavor, according to the medical manual. Blending them together after grinding and sifting, he gives the mixture to the children and says: This is an extremely beneficial medicine with good color, aroma, and flavor. All of you take it! It will quickly remove your pain and you will never be afflicted again. “Then the children who have not become delirious see this beneficial medicine of good color and aroma, and immediately take it. The affliction is completely removed and they are cured.

The remaining children, those who are delirious ... Although he offers them the medicine, they will not take it. Why is this? The poison has so deeply penetrated them that they have become delirious. They do not think that the medicine with good color and aroma is good. “The father thinks: "These children are to be pitied. The poison has completely warped their minds. Although they rejoiced upon seeing me and sought a cure they will not take this beneficial medicine. I will now cause them to take this medicine through skillful means."

... Then he says to them: You should know that I am now old and feeble, close to death. I will now leave this beneficial medicine here. You should take it. Do not worry about not recovering. [The father thereupon fakes his own death, although he is actually alive. The children, however, believe he is dead.] Through constant grieving their minds become clear, and only then do they realize that the medicine has fine color, aroma, and flavor. They immediately take it and the poison is completely driven out. The father, hearing that all his children have completely recovered, immediately returns and makes his appearance.

The Buddha then asked the bodhisattvas: “O sons of a virtuous family! Do you think there is anyone who would say that this good doctor is guilty of lying?” The bodhisattvas replied: “No, we do not, O Bhagavat!” [The Buddhas proclaims," "Although it was untrue. He did this to cure his delirious sons, Through excellent skillful means; So no one could say he really spoke falsehood."

~~~

Gassho, J
stlah

[Jundo]

By the way, best not to ignore our history: Soto Zen, like other schools of Buddhism, has a long history of medicines, pills and potions to treat the "three poisons" of greed, anger and ignorance, plus other disturbances of mood and emotions. For example, the Tibetans administer many medicines and concoctions to change emotions and the mind as part of Buddhist practice (https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=4309). Likewise in the Rinzai and Soto Zen traditions, traditionally. Here is an article about the practice in Soto Zen https://www.degruyterbrill.com/docum...A6bs4cVZcMcagW dPdBrNhMR9KVz21wogB

I think it precedent for what I am proposing. It is medicine pill for the three poisons (greed, anger, ignorance). Historian and Zen Priest Duncan WIlliams recounts:

... while Buddhism has often been broadly associated with healing andthe alleviation of suffering, few studies examine concrete examples of Buddhist medicine or healing practices. This chapter details two Sôtô Zen case studies of a burgeoning Buddhist medical culture: the “Poison-Dispelling Pill,” a herbal medicine produced at a Kyoto pharmacy and distributed nationwide by the Sôtô Zen sect, and the healing cult of the “Splinter-Removing Jizô,” whose worship was centered on a Sôtô Zen temple in the city of Edo. These two examples provide a better sense of how Sôtô Zen Buddhist institutions participated in Tokugawa-period medical practices,and how medical practices shaped the character of Sôtô Zen Buddhism. As suggested previously, Sôtô Zen developed separate sect-specific religious practices, while simultaneously participating in a common Japanese religious culture. In the case of medical practices, this chapter will demonstrate how the herbal medicines produced at the Kyoto pharmacy unified and strengthened sect consciousness... In his well-known essay Byô, the Buddhologist Paul Demiéville classified Buddhist healing practices into three types: (1) religious therapeutics (good works, practices of worship, expiation, and meditation), (2) magical therapeutics (mantras, incantations, and esoteric ritual), and (3) medical therapeutics proper (dietetics, pharmacy, and surgery). He wrote, “The lines demarcating these three fields are not at all distinct. Where do ‘religious’ therapeutics stop? All of Buddhism is a single therapeutic.”6 This observation that the religious, magical, and medical therapeutics cannot be easily demarcated also holds true in the case of Buddhist healing practices in Japan during the Tokugawa period. ... [In the origin story] on this piece of paper is the secret formula for the medicine, the Shinsen Gedoku Manbyôen (the Wizard Mountain ‘poison-dispelling’ pill). Please alleviate the ills and sufferings of all beings with it.” Saying this, the dragon princess humbly presented [Dôgen] with a scroll. This was the origin of the Shinsen Gedoku medicine, which has been available from Eiheiji Temple ever since. ... The Chinese character for poison (doku) used in Gedokuen is the same one used to express the three poisons (sandoku) of covetousness, anger, and delusion that characterize the samsaric world. The medicine dissolves the poisons that afflict the physical body to effect a cure but also serves as an antidote to the larger affliction with the three poisons that hinder liberation.

(Note above the medicine's use to cure the three poisons of greed, anger and ignorance.) https://terebess.hu/zen/oth.pdf

Gassho, J
stlah

[Jundo]

A question for any "science and medicine cannot be Buddhism" pundits here ...

Question: If you saw a child about to be raped or killed by a madman, and you could not stop the rape or killing except by picking up one of two guns and pulling the trigger: (1) An ordinary gun with bullets that would kill the rapist murder, (2) a gun with a dart containing tested medicine that would calm the rapist murderer, return them to love and compassion, while reducing their urge to rape and kill, or (3) do nothing, let the rape and murder happen ... which would you do?

I suppose there is a 4th option: You could politely ask the rapist murderer to meditate or join a yoga class.

I await your wisdom.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[Tensei]

I feel like I saw a SciFi movie about this, but I can’t remember which one… less specifically, I’m reminded of Spice in Dune. What a perfect biologically enhancing compound, and yet, and yet, the source of the destruction of so many lives. The Spice Must Flow.

Back to our planet, there have been too many situations where those in power implemented ‘voluntary’ procedures, where the choice of individual was taken away as they were deemed to not be in the right state of mind to make sound decisions. Historically, these practices have disproportionately targeted marginalized and ‘difficult’ groups as defined by whoever held the most sway. Eugenics has a much too recent past to be forgotten (local examples below):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Eugenics_Board

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization_in_Canada

https://gladue.usask.ca/sites/gladue1.usask.ca/files/gladue/resource541-2c6e0413.pdf

Risking a chicken-egg scenario, I think that the only way to implement greater societal change is to treat people with compassion in our day-to-day interactions. One hopes that it waters the seed of compassion in their lives so that they can in turn share it with others.

Gassho,
Tensei
satlah

[Jundo]

Back to our planet, there have been too many situations where those in power implemented ‘voluntary’ procedures, where the choice of individual was taken away as they were deemed to not be in the right state of mind to make sound decisions. Historically, these practices have disproportionately targeted marginalized and ‘difficult’ groups as defined by whoever held the most sway. Eugenics has a much too recent past to be forgotten (local examples below):

Risking a chicken-egg scenario, I think that the only way to implement greater societal change is to treat people with compassion in our day-to-day interactions. One hopes that it waters the seed of compassion in their lives so that they can in turn share it with others.

Gassho,
Tensei
satlah

Oh, absolutely! All rights of the individual and civil liberties must be maintained scrupulously. There must be proper regulation, legal checks, just like for any medical regime (at least, pre-RFK! ) Abuses, such as those of the past, must be avoided. Even where there are elements of the criminal justice system involved (e.g., in treatments for murderous and violent convicted prisoners as part of their reform), all civil rights and just court procedures must be followed. Even on the battlefield, the "rules of war" (as terrible as they are currently) must be honored ... something we are, sadly, forgetting in current times.

This is vital.

These technologies are coming, whether we like it or not. It is imperative that they be used wisely and with restrictions.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah