Struggling in Zazen

[Devaprem]

I started Zazen a few months ago and at first I found the just sitting to be a beautiful experience. More recently, I feel an ever harshening division between the open blue sky and the dark clouds (sometimes they are as black as night).This no reason to stop, I know this in my heart. I will continue just sitting but, right now, there is so much flipping between thought and no-thought. I am conscious that 'all is Zazen' and yet I find it hard at times with such divisive polarity. I have done much meditation and other stuff in the past but it feels like that just doesn't count here, right now. It is past. I am just putting this experience out here to this Sangha. In doing so, I feel a deep gratitude that this is possible

Sat today / lah

Gassho
Devaprem

[Bion]

Thank you for sharing your experience and feelings, friend. I recognize some of that too. I think it’s a shared experience. Zazen is sometimes easy zazen and sometimes difficult zazen, and if we sit enough, we taste all the flavors and can confidently expect them all the become familiar in time.

Gassho
sat lah

[mdonnoe]

I have a little dog (he's a Cairn Terrier), who's only just now five years old. He's still a puppy at heart, and loves playing and being rascally (if you sit Zazenkai with us, you might see him in my camera screen sometimes, too!). He's a dear dear sweet fellow, and has those famous "puppy dog eyes," so I can never be mad at him. When I take him on his daily walk, he's usually really good about staying on the path, but sometimes he smells something in a bush or on a building, and wants to stray and sniff. Sometimes when others walk by, he gets distracted, wags his tail, and tries to follow them!

My mind in zazen is sometimes like my puppy. Sometimes the path is easy and the experience is smooth. Sometimes my mind drifts, or tries to follow something else. When it does, just like with my pup, I gently return it to the path, without harshness, judgement or feeling like my zazen (or the walk) is ruined as a result. These days, my puppy-mind takes a bit more redirection, as the world is often distracting or distressing.

May you be as gentle with your mind "flipping between thought and no-thought" as we are with puppies on walks. Remember too that your mind, like the puppy, is beautiful just as it is, with its distractions and with its clear focus, and sit with that.

Please do take this (perhaps silly) response with a grain of salt.

Gassho,
Michael
SatLah

[Devaprem]

Thank you Bion, thank you Michael. Both your responses encourage me and to know I am not alone in this experience is good support. I like you analogy to your Cairn Terrier, Michael - not silly at all! :-)

Gasshi,
Devaprem

sat/lah

[ZenJay]

Hi Devaprem,
First, I’m not a priest, so please take what I say with a grain of salt…

I completely understand what you are saying, and it can be difficult sometimes when you suddenly realize that you’ve spent the last 10 minutes attached to a train of thoughts that make no sense… Part of this for me is feeling frustrated with myself. It’s important though to be gentle when this happens. (Yesterday I actually laughed at myself!) And, as Jundo says there no “good” or “bad” Zazen, it’s all “good” Zazen! When it comes to thoughts, I recently put together this little gatha/mantra (not really sure what you would call it actually) but I find it helps remind me that when the thought train comes, it’s just the brain doing its thing! Just try not to hop on board. Just thought I’d share it in hopes that it may help you.

The stomach digests,
the lungs breathe,
the heart beats,
and the brain thinks,
but I am pure awareness.

We don’t attach to every heartbeat, or every breath of air… we don’t attach to the food we’re digesting and lament its transformation into our energy, and we don’t attach to thoughts. It’s just our body doing its thing! “Pay it no never mind!” As Jundo would say. I know easier said than done sometimes, but it’s also important to remember Annica (impermanence). The clouds won’t stay forever, and eventually realization comes that the Buddha Sun even shines through the darkest of clouds…

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/lah today

[Jundo]

Hi Devaprem,
First, I’m not a priest, so please take what I say with a grain of salt…

...

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/lah today

Hi Jay,

First, I completely DIG your comment above. I second what you say.

I just want to comment on this "salt" thing. That is something that I ask our very newly Ordained priest to put in their posts so that they can learn that, following Ordination, their words will have some extra weight.

You, however, certainly do not need to put that in your posts. Especially if they are wonderful posts, like the one just above.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

[ZenJay]

Hi Jay,

First, I completely DIG your comment above. I second what you say.

I just want to comment on this "salt" thing. That is something that I ask our very newly Ordained priest to put in their posts so that they can learn that, following Ordination, their words will have some extra weight.

You, however, certainly do not need to put that in your posts. Especially if they are wonderful posts, like the one just above.

Gassho, Jundo
stlah

Ah, I was wondering about that! I had noticed the priests doing it when sharing their thoughts and I just followed suit as I don’t want to mislead since I am still new. I worry about that a lot actually… I guess I’m verbally bowing when I shouldn’t! Thank you Roshi, I appreciate the clarification and your kind words

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/lah today

[PaulH]

ZenJay I have a question about this beautiful gatha:

The stomach digests,
the lungs breathe,
the heart beats,
and the brain thinks,
but I am pure awareness.

I feel it kind of implies that I'm not my lungs, heart, brain, but something external or transcendental. From my perspective, I am my lungs, heart, brain, and consciousness, everything being non-permanent.

Gassho
Paul
satlah

[ZenJay]

Hi Paul,

True! As I understand it however, you aren’t the heartbeats that pump your blood, digesting food being transformed into energy, or the air transforming into carbon dioxide entering and exiting the lungs… these are all actions and products of your organs. The brain is an organ that breathes too… it breathes in sensory information, and it breathes out opinions, judgements, random weird thoughts, silliness etc. All just products of the brain. In life, some is useful and we discard the rest (just like our food into energy or waste, or breathing air into our blood and exhaling carbon dioxide…)
When in Zazen, just as with every passing heartbeat, with every gurgle of our stomaches, with every breath, with every passing thought, we sit grasping at none of it. We just sit

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/lah today

(added) PS- on a deeper level I know we actually are the heartbeats, the air, the trees that produce the air, everything and all the above in ten directions. But when we sit, we just sit. I use the gatha as a way to remind myself that thoughts aren’t where my attention should be during Zazen.
I hope this all helps !

[Jundo]

When in Zazen, just as with every passing heartbeat, with every gurgle of our stomaches, with every breath, with every passing thought, we sit grasping at none of it. We just sit

I feel it kind of implies that I'm not my lungs, heart, brain, but something external or transcendental. From my perspective, I am my lungs, heart, brain, and consciousness, everything being non-permanent.

Wonderfully, we Zen folks approach this kind of question by not saying we are the "lungs, heart, brain, and consciousness" or not not the "lungs, heart, brain, and consciousness," neither transcendental" or "non-permanent" nor not "transcendental" or "non-permanent" ...

... and that is actually the best way to find the real meaning of what we are, what is.

And we do so as we just sit ... with every gurgle of our stomaches, with every breath, with every passing thought ... with every transcendental and non-permanent or dental and permanent ... just sit ...



Gassho, J
stlah