Zen Sports: Tai chi

[Seikan]

Thank you for the long explanation. I do understand that in-person lessons are essential; the last time I studied tai chi, about 4-5 years ago, I had one-on-one lessons. That would be possible in better weather, but it certainly is not the right time of year. :-) In any case, there's nothing local, so, for now, if I do want to learn something, I'm pretty much on my own. So anything like push hands or sword is out of the question.

Is the wudang a style on its own, or a derivative of another style? I do think that that website has the most comprehensive and well produced videos that I've seen, and that makes a big difference.

I may come back to you if I make any progress and ask for some feedback now and then, if you would be so kind as to do the occasional zoom call to talk about it.

Gassho,

Ryūmon

sat

I'd be happy to help in any way that I can. Just let me know...

Regarding Wudang style, I have to admit that I know little about it as it is not typically generally included in the lineage of classic styles that all derive from the Chen style. The following site has a good summary of those styles (https://www.realtaichiuk.com/tai-chi-lineage.html). I suspect that all of the schools that teach some form of "Wudang" style are simply based on a different historical lineage overall. From what I have seen, many of them seem to share similarities in terms of low, deep stances; expansive, flowing movements, etc. Perhaps others here that practice a form of Wudang style can elaborate. I would be very interested to learn more as well.

The difficulty is that, like so many martial arts styles, everyone likes to claim that their style is the most authentic, etc. That said, even within one particular style you can find so many variations on the standard forms. As there are many martial applications for each posture and so many different body types to account for, this makes perfect sense. I've always found that the best teachers take an open-minded approach to practice and not a "my way or the highway" approach. In any given lineage, the form will evolve over time as each teacher/student makes their own subtle, yet practical adjustments to the form. If they make significant changes, that is when it may be said that a new form/variation has been created (e.g., when Cheng Man-Ching created his own shortened version of the Yang style).

I'll end my ramble here...

Gassho,
Seikan

-stlah-

(apologies for running long)

[Heiso]

I'm really pleased this thread has started as I've been trying to get into some form of regular Tai Chi practice over the pandemic via youtube but the amount of styles etc is a bit overwhelming so haven't got much further than the 8 Brocades.

I've been a student of Taijiquan (Tai Chi Chuan) for the better part of 25+ years. I started with the Cheng Man-Ching version in College (a great style for small spaces, by the way),

Seikan - is it the 37 postures form that is good for small spaces?

Gassho,

Heiso

StLah

[Kyōsen]

I've always wanted to learn but I really struggle learning from books/videos. There are two local groups that "teach" tai chi: The first one charges $600 for 6 months of lessons. The second one doesn't actually teach, you just show up, they put you in the back with all the other beginners and you just have to try to mimic the people around you (who don't know what they're doing).

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

[Seikan]

Seikan - is it the 37 postures form that is good for small spaces?

Heiso,

The Cheng Man-Ching style is generally good for smaller spaces due to the shorter stances and less lateral/back-and-forth movement compared to other styles. In the Yang long form (108 postures), we cover a fair amount of ground laterally (about 15-20 feet total) in either direction at different times. That can make practicing indoors (at home) a bit of a challenge with furniture and walls, etc. However, it's easy enough to adjust and adapt depending on your situation. On that note, I have a new (temporary) challenge to practicing at home now that our Xmas tree is set up right in the middle of my home practice space (aka my "living room").

Any form can be adjusted to suit one's environment, but if you are looking for a more compact style to being with the Cheng Man-Ching as well as the Sun and certain Wu styles are rather compact.

Gassho,
Seikan

-stlah-

[Seikan]

I've always wanted to learn but I really struggle learning from books/videos. There are two local groups that "teach" tai chi: The first one charges $600 for 6 months of lessons. The second one doesn't actually teach, you just show up, they put you in the back with all the other beginners and you just have to try to mimic the people around you (who don't know what they're doing).

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

$600 for 6-months of lessons doesn't sound that bad assuming you get at least a couple lessons per week. If it is only once per week, that is quite steep! I pay around that myself, but at my school, that gives me unlimited classes. As I average 3 classes per week, I'm spending about $6 per class. Not a bad deal.

Regarding the other school, oddly enough, that is actually how many forms of Tai Chi have been taught over the years in China. You would just show up (often in a park or other public setting) and gradually learn your way through the set. There was no individual "beginner" instruction. That said, it's not a great way to make the art accessible to newcomers. Attending a class designed for beginners is far more effective as particular focus can be placed on proper stances, balance, how to shift your weight, etc. Trying to learn all of that just by mimicking others takes so much longer and may be nearly impossible for some folks depending on their learning style.

Gassho,
Seikan

-stlah-

(apologies for running long... going to shut my computer off for the rest of the day).

[Onrin]

Well you are in luck Jundo - there is quite aa good teacher here in Tsukuba. My in-laws have been learning from him for a number of years now. Gentlemen must be about 80 and they say he moves like water. He learned while living in China and has been teaching.
Some years ago I picked up some of Professor Cheng Man-Ching's books and really enjoyed them. Pretty user friendly for a newbie like me. A friend practiced at his school in NYC in the 70's with one of his pupils and had great things to say about it.

Washin, with the moves ... and with hair ...



By the way, I am going to move this thread to our "Zen Sports" section so that we can keep it. Yes, I know, it is more "art" than "sport."

(By the way, I tried for awhile when I lived in China, but must confess that I found the 6am start times difficult. I have been meaning to take it up again.)

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Heiso]

Heiso,

The Cheng Man-Ching style is generally good for smaller spaces due to the shorter stances and less lateral/back-and-forth movement compared to other styles. In the Yang long form (108 postures), we cover a fair amount of ground laterally (about 15-20 feet total) in either direction at different times. That can make practicing indoors (at home) a bit of a challenge with furniture and walls, etc. However, it's easy enough to adjust and adapt depending on your situation. On that note, I have a new (temporary) challenge to practicing at home now that our Xmas tree is set up right in the middle of my home practice space (aka my "living room").

Any form can be adjusted to suit one's environment, but if you are looking for a more compact style to being with the Cheng Man-Ching as well as the Sun and certain Wu styles are rather compact.

Gassho,
Seikan

-stlah-

Thanks for this, Seikan, I will check it out. I definitely need something on the compact side as my practice space (front room) is pretty small.

Gassho,

heiso

StLah

[Heisoku]

Zen Sports: Tai chi

Dear Ryumon
If you are still following up on this then

https://www.zhong-ding.com/

has groups all over the U.K.
Gassho
Heisoku
SATLA

PS it’s Cheng Man Ching Style


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[Ryumon]

Dear Ryumon
If you are still following up on this then

https://www.zhong-ding.com/

has groups all over the U.K.
Gassho
Heisoku
SATLA

PS it’s Cheng Man Ching Style


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except in the West Midlands, where I am. :-(

Gassho,
Ryūmon (Kirk)
Sat


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[Mrcpt11]

My psychiatrist today mentioned I should consider practicing Tai Chi; I told her I was practicing zazen and she thought it would be a good addition to my practice. I’m not really sure where to start; I’d like to try something at home, maybe books or videos. Can of you recommend some resources to the complete beginner? Thanks in advance,

Gassho,
William
Sattoday

[Heisoku]

Zen Sports: Tai chi

Dear Ryumon
Try this

https://www.em.zhong-ding.com/

Should go to the East Midlands branch.
Gassho
Heisoku


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[Myojin]

Doing one of the long forms is good for present awareness. If you lose track you find yourself repeating parts of the form in a loop until you bring the mind back to focus sufficiently.

Sattday

Dan

[Chikyou]

I'm interested in trying Tai Chi, I am REALLY out of shape at this point in my life and desperately need to move my body but I'm really short on time to join an in person class. What are some good (preferably free while I decide if this is something I will stick with) resources for learning the basics? I earned a red stripe belt in taekwondo as a teen - it's been about 20 years so I'm definitely rusty, but the basics of martial arts aren't totally foreign to me.

Sorry for running long
Gassho,
SatLah
Kelly

[Myojin]

I'm interested in trying Tai Chi, I am REALLY out of shape at this point in my life and desperately need to move my body but I'm really short on time to join an in person class. What are some good (preferably free while I decide if this is something I will stick with) resources for learning the basics? I earned a red stripe belt in taekwondo as a teen - it's been about 20 years so I'm definitely rusty, but the basics of martial arts aren't totally foreign to me.

Sorry for running long
Gassho,
SatLah
Kelly

I can’t imagine learning Tai Chi other than face to face if I’m honest. It’s much more complex than many martial arts, and chi is something you really have to feel, you don’t get that from a screen.

I practice by myself, but the two or by three years of regular practice with a teacher was what made that possible.

Sorry I can’t offer something more positive.

Sattday
Gassho
Myojin

[Guest]

I'm interested in trying Tai Chi, I am REALLY out of shape at this point in my life and desperately need to move my body but I'm really short on time to join an in person class. What are some good (preferably free while I decide if this is something I will stick with) resources for learning the basics? I earned a red stripe belt in taekwondo as a teen - it's been about 20 years so I'm definitely rusty, but the basics of martial arts aren't totally foreign to me.

Sorry for running long
Gassho,
SatLah
Kelly

Hi Chikyou,

I think Taiji is an excellent exercise. I have been doing it for 30 years. I also teach it at a local cancer support center. The thing with Taiji is that you have to practice everyday and have patience (just like our zazen practice). If you practiced Taekwondo in your life, then certain parts of your training will get activated again if you start practicing Taiji. It is a great exercise and can even go into cardio once you speed the form up and perhaps start doing weapons practice. I say go for it. As a priest in training at Treeleaf, I cannot say definitively how this might work for your overall practice in Zen, but for me anyway, I do not see a separation at all. Buddhism in China had physical exercise as part of its practice. Later on in some sects of Taoism, the blend of Taoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism became very popular in China and there was an emphasis on body practice as well as meditative practices. Jundo works out and has spoken on the importance of keeping physically active, but that is one part of an online sangha, that we can encourage, but has to be taken up on your own as your own personal, physical practice based on each person's abilities and limitations.

I wish you the absolute best on your Taiji journey.

Gassho,
Daiman
ST/LAH