[Engaged] Interfaith work and Climate Strike

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  • Junkyo
    Member
    • Jun 2018
    • 262

    [Engaged] Interfaith work and Climate Strike

    Today I took part in an interfaith service that was held at a local church, and then was followed by a climate strike march to city hall. I shared a "Prayer" that was written by one of my early teachers Sensei Fred Ulrich (Manitoba Buddhist Temple) and then chanted the Heart Sutra in Japanese. There was also the minister of the church, a local Muslim leader, folks from the Baha'i i Faith, members of a local Hindu group, as well as an Asatru Pagan priestess.

    After the service we all marched down to city hall with folks from the congregation and held a small demonstration in the courtyard.

    It was a wonderful oppertunity to share with the larger faith community and to show our support of the current environmental movement.

    Ulrich Sensei has always been heavily involved in interfaith work, and in building bridges between faith communities. I guess some of that has rubbed off on me as I really enjoy the opportunity to share with others. I also think that when tackling major social issues, we can get a lot of momentum by working together with our extended faith community.

    What experiences are you all having in your communities with the current Climate Strike movement?

    Gassho,

    Junkyo
    SAT
  • Kendrick
    Member
    • May 2019
    • 250

    #2
    That's wonderful your community is working together and cares about the environment. This is a state university city so I imagine on campus there is action with this but in the general public here I haven't heard or seen anything at all. I have seen a lot of the opposite push though - lots of pro-coal, pro-gasline bumper stickers, the officially state coal license plates on cars (friends of coal), a push by the mayor to log the national forest the city is encased in (with no one upset over it but rather upset that the national forest service isn't permitting it yet), etc. "Coal Country" is what many people consider this place even if there is almost no people who work in coal anywhere near here, and the places that do mine coal actually don't hire that many people. It's such a misdirection when people complain about "going green costing us our jobs" - what jobs? Logging is huge industry here though. Lots of sawmills and logging companies buying up land (my father-in-law being one of them). I hate seeing so much of the forest cut down. My grandfather logged very responsibly - always cutting out trees that were about to fall and damage others, taking out the dead ones, and carefully thinning areas that ran the risk of causing other trees to die. The result is beautiful forested property left in the family that my parents own that will one day be passed on to me. Much of these companies just buy up land en masse and clear cut it, sell it again, and move on. One day we will have cut too much (if we haven't already) and we will pay for it as a species on this planet. I see more and more clear cut land year after year... I think many people know better but they just don't care what will go on one day after they are dead and gone as long as they profit now.

    I would be pretty surprised to see anyone other than university students doing any activism for the environment. I got snubbed by the current mayor/mayors office recently when I asked about her position on the logging within city limits. She is newly elected... her father owns the largest logging/sawmill company in the city/county. No one I've spoken to about that seemingly glaring bias and conflict of interest in her position even bats an eye about it - not even my wife sided with me over it. I have been really disappointed in the reactions people have had over the issue.

    There aren't any interfaith organizations locally here as far as I know. It is very homogenous here faith-wise, and there are only protestant churches and one catholic church.

    Gassho
    Kendrick
    Sat

    Comment

    • Meitou
      Member
      • Feb 2017
      • 1656

      #3
      Originally posted by Junkyo
      Today I took part in an interfaith service that was held at a local church, and then was followed by a climate strike march to city hall. I shared a "Prayer" that was written by one of my early teachers Sensei Fred Ulrich (Manitoba Buddhist Temple) and then chanted the Heart Sutra in Japanese. There was also the minister of the church, a local Muslim leader, folks from the Baha'i i Faith, members of a local Hindu group, as well as an Asatru Pagan priestess.

      After the service we all marched down to city hall with folks from the congregation and held a small demonstration in the courtyard.

      It was a wonderful oppertunity to share with the larger faith community and to show our support of the current environmental movement.

      Ulrich Sensei has always been heavily involved in interfaith work, and in building bridges between faith communities. I guess some of that has rubbed off on me as I really enjoy the opportunity to share with others. I also think that when tackling major social issues, we can get a lot of momentum by working together with our extended faith community.

      What experiences are you all having in your communities with the current Climate Strike movement?

      Gassho,

      Junkyo
      SAT
      Wow, what a great experience!

      I'm not sure if anything happened here today in my home town, as I didn't go out as I've had to run errands everyday this week and decided to have a day at home. However I was delighted to see that there has been a huge turn out all over Italy. Even more encouraging is that the Education Minister is wholeheartedly in support of school pupils having Friday off to take part in Climate Action marches and is encouraging schools to allow pupils to participate - this is a huge thing, and I was amazed and thrilled to read it. Next week I'll try to find out if anything is happening here and make every effort to take part.
      Wonderful to see so many marching worldwide again this week and even if I'm not physically taking part, I do try to support and encourage as many people as possible online. There's always something we can do to contribute.
      Gassho
      Meitou
      sattodaylah
      命 Mei - life
      島 Tou - island

      Comment

      • Cooperix
        Member
        • Nov 2013
        • 502

        #4
        Kendrick,
        Your post breaks my heart. The folly, the shortsightedness, the greed...
        And my deep sadness that you seem alone in your efforts. Bless you for them. And know that one voice can have an impact that we might never know, but echoes on.
        A university town should have young people, whose future it is, to speak to these issues. And I hope there is some organized action. ah.. Kentucky. It's on my radar!

        Bowing

        Anne

        ~lahst~

        Comment

        • Daitetsu
          Member
          • Oct 2012
          • 1145

          #5
          Climate change is a topic that concerns me a lot right now.

          Here in Germany the climate movement has gained momentum luckily, but even here there are people either negating it or thinking the situation is not that bad (mostly either ultraconservatives or people leading a wasteful lifestyle who see themselves threatened).

          The more you deal with the climate topic the more desparate you could become.
          However, if everyone does what they can this can have a positive ripple effect. We should not get hopeless and give up, but try to deal with the situation and possible consequences and still try to change things as good as we can.
          Most climate change deniers are under the "influence of the three poisons" and act either out of delusion (they don't know how dire the situation is), attachment (to their consumerist/wasteful way of life they would have to give up in order to change things) or aversion (they don't *want* to believe the facts).

          What can we do?
          I am still in the process of finding ways, but I try to be a good example, don't react with anger to deniers and inform others. Often there is simply a lack of information.

          Some things I do: I have been a vegetarian (the top three meat companies are responsible for more CO2 emmissions than the top three oil companies) for several years now, I use the bike or go by foot for short distances, use train or bus for middle range distances, drive a hybrid car that loads its batteries by kinetic energy (e.g. whenever the brakes are used), reduce plastic waste, I go to a local farm to get vegetables/fruit, I try to buy mostly regional products, reduce the usage of the heating system in winter (even one degree °C room temperature less has an effect), speak with other people. These are things everyone can try to do - we don't have to be 100% perfect, every effort counts.
          However, at the same time, we should try to increase the pressure on politicians, so they finally act.

          I can recommend David Loy's book "Ecodharma" about this topic.
          Yesterday I began reading "Active Hope" by Joanna Macy and Chris Johnstone (David Loy referred to it in his book).

          Gassho,

          Daitetsu

          #sat2day


          PS: I think interfaith work is the way to go - making this "a Buddhist thing" would lead to more aversion (esp. in religious countries like the US). If everyone is included, there could be a great chance.
          Last edited by Daitetsu; 10-06-2019, 11:09 AM.
          no thing needs to be added

          Comment

          • Meitou
            Member
            • Feb 2017
            • 1656

            #6
            Originally posted by Daitetsu
            Climate change is a topic that concerns me a lot right now.

            Here in Germany the climate movement has gained momentum luckily, but even here there are people either negating it or thinking the situation is not that bad (mostly either ultraconservatives or people leading a wasteful lifestyle who see themselves threatened).

            The more you deal with the climate topic the more desparate you could become.
            However, if everyone does what they can this can have a positive ripple effect. We should not get hopeless and give up, but try to deal with the situation and possible consequences and still try to change things as good as we can.
            Most climate change deniers are under the "influence of the three poisons" and act either out of delusion (they don't know how dire the situation is), attachment (to their consumerist/wasteful way of life they would have to give up in order to change things) or aversion (they don't *want* to believe the facts).

            What can we do?
            I am still in the process of finding ways, but I try to be a good example, don't react with anger to deniers and inform others. Often there is simply a lack of information.

            Some things I do: I have been a vegetarian (the top three meat companies are responsible for more CO2 emmissions than the top three oil companies) for several years now, I use the bike or go by foot for short distances, use train or bus for middle range distances, drive a hybrid car that loads its batteries by kinetic energy (e.g. whenever the brakes are used), reduce plastic waste, I go to a local farm to get vegetables/fruit, I try to buy mostly regional products, reduce the usage of the heating system in winter (even one degree °C room temperature less has an effect), speak with other people. These are things everyone can try to do - we don't have to be 100% perfect, every effort counts.
            However, at the same time, we should try to increase the pressure on politicians, so they finally act.

            I can recommend David Loy's book "Ecodharma" about this topic.
            Yesterday I began reading "Active Hope" by Joanna Macy and Chris Johnstone (David Loy referred to it in his book).

            Gassho,

            Daitetsu

            #sat2day


            PS: I think interfaith work is the way to go - making this "a Buddhist thing" would lead to more aversion (esp. in religious countries like the US). If everyone is included, there could be a great chance.
            Great work Daitetsu!
            I have the David Loy book but haven't started it yet as I've just started 'Green Buddhism' by Stephanie Kaza.
            I agree with you about the Interfaith initiative - I don't know how it is in the rest of the world, but climate action has fallen prey, like everything else at the moment, to divisiveness and politicisation, so anything that brings people together across any kind of bounday is good in my opinion.
            Gassho
            Meitou
            sattodaylah
            命 Mei - life
            島 Tou - island

            Comment

            • Junkyo
              Member
              • Jun 2018
              • 262

              #7
              Hi Daitetsu!

              Thanks for your post! I am always encouraged by reading about others efforts!

              A little update here. Since the Multi-faith service went very well and was well received here locally, myself and a number of other leaders from local faith groups (Churches, Mosques, Temples etc.) have decided to begin working together and create an Interfaith Council to build some bridges between our communities and allow us to find ways to have a greater positive impact on our community.

              I am looking forward to seeing this project come together and help bring our various communities (both cultural and faith) together. I think we will have a stronger overall community and be more effective in tackling some of our city's many issues.

              I will keep posting some updates as we progress, perhaps it will help others to do similar things in their communities.

              Gassho,

              Junkyo
              SAT

              Comment

              • Meitou
                Member
                • Feb 2017
                • 1656

                #8
                Originally posted by Junkyo
                Hi Daitetsu!

                Thanks for your post! I am always encouraged by reading about others efforts!

                A little update here. Since the Multi-faith service went very well and was well received here locally, myself and a number of other leaders from local faith groups (Churches, Mosques, Temples etc.) have decided to begin working together and create an Interfaith Council to build some bridges between our communities and allow us to find ways to have a greater positive impact on our community.

                I am looking forward to seeing this project come together and help bring our various communities (both cultural and faith) together. I think we will have a stronger overall community and be more effective in tackling some of our city's many issues.

                I will keep posting some updates as we progress, perhaps it will help others to do similar things in their communities.

                Gassho,

                Junkyo
                SAT
                Inspiring!

                Meitou
                sattodaylah
                命 Mei - life
                島 Tou - island

                Comment

                • Daitetsu
                  Member
                  • Oct 2012
                  • 1145

                  #9
                  Hello Meitou!

                  Originally posted by Meitou
                  I have the David Loy book but haven't started it yet as I've just started 'Green Buddhism' by Stephanie Kaza.
                  Loy's book can be quite depressing at the beginning when he lists all the facts, how bad the situation really is (I used to think it is 5 minutes to midnight, but actually it is either one minute to midnight or even already too late), but then he shows a great way how to deal with this and how to act without falling into despair. And he appeals to all Buddhists to work together on this, since there is really an urgent need to act.

                  Thank you for mentioning Stephanie Kaza's book - will put it on my reading list!

                  @Junkyo:
                  Looking forward to your updates. What you have reported so far gives me some hope.

                  Gassho,

                  Daitetsu

                  #sat2day
                  no thing needs to be added

                  Comment

                  • Meitou
                    Member
                    • Feb 2017
                    • 1656

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Daitetsu
                    Hello Meitou!



                    Loy's book can be quite depressing at the beginning when he lists all the facts, how bad the situation really is (I used to think it is 5 minutes to midnight, but actually it is either one minute to midnight or even already too late), but then he shows a great way how to deal with this and how to act without falling into despair. And he appeals to all Buddhists to work together on this, since there is really an urgent need to act.

                    Thank you for mentioning Stephanie Kaza's book - will put it on my reading list!

                    @Junkyo:
                    Looking forward to your updates. What you have reported so far gives me some hope.

                    Gassho,

                    Daitetsu

                    #sat2day

                    Meitou
                    Satwithyoualltoday
                    命 Mei - life
                    島 Tou - island

                    Comment

                    • Doshin
                      Member
                      • May 2015
                      • 2644

                      #11
                      Thanks to all of you for your concern and efforts.



                      Doshin
                      St

                      Comment

                      • Risho
                        Member
                        • May 2010
                        • 3179

                        #12
                        Doshin this is not an attack on you by any means; I just wanted to respond to this with something that I see in Zen, and it bothers me.

                        I'm sick of "concern". Everyone's concerned. Concern does nothing; it helps nothing. Concern allows us to feel self-satisfied that we are doing something. People think that protesting or getting outraged is doing something; it's not. Action is action. Save the concern and do something. But before you can act, you need to know what you are doing; otherwise we are just sleepwalking.

                        I'm catching up on the Realizing Genjokoan readings, and early on in the Genjokoan, Dogen says something that is one of my favorite things he's ever written:

                        Conveying oneself toward all things to carry out practice-enlightenment is delusion. All things coming and carrying out practice-enlightenment through the self is realization.
                        Proselytizing Zen - telling people to wake up and so on is delusion. Telling ourselves - actually living out those things - is enlightenment.

                        We have to be the change we want to see as Gandhi so accurately stated.

                        American Buddhism I feel has been politically appropriated. Zen should never be used as a wrapper for some sort of belief or political agenda. I'm getting sick and tired of engaged Buddhism and this idea of Zen Buddhists having to feel or believe something and take action.

                        These problems are so much bigger than any of us, and this is not the point of Zen.

                        In any case, I understand the intent; I understand that everyone wants to do good, but what turns me off about Loy and so many of these "eco-Buddhists" and engaged Buddhists is that they are taking a stand on something and trying to reify that stance with the Dharma. That's the opposite of what Zen should be. Zen is and always has been a path to understand our true place in this universe; all these other things are just a distraction even if they are painted and justified in all sorts of ways.

                        Instead of telling others how to wake up and live - we need to turn the light inward and follow our own teachings. Be an example, don't preach the example.

                        I know I know I'm totally ranting, and I'm not judging anyone's practice; that's where it gets complicated; I mean after you've done this a while you know your practice.

                        I am criticizing the state of Western Buddhism; Zen isn't supposed to be about replacing one set of ideologies with another. Sure in the beginning, fake it til you make it, but you need to dig under the layers of all ideologies - not be given new ones.

                        So while I think acting against climate change, once we actually stop freaking the f out and exaggerating things, take a measured look and see how we really can fix this, then we act. That measured response is what we learn here.

                        In any case - the same ideological crap happens with vegetariansm, and that's why I had to stop reading simple living. I mean the assumption that eating vegetables one day is better for you than meat and also simpler. Give me a break. You are better off fasting - now I'd get behind that. But that's not Buddhism, so it's still irrelevant!

                        And that's what I'm criticizing; I don't want Zen to become Disney or "Whole Foods" Zen; that's what we have here.

                        Now I could go into the science of why meat is better nutritionally; ethics is an unmeasurable and vitally important thing; I can't argue anyone and I wouldn't try

                        And that's the exact point. Nutritional ideology doesn't belong in Zen either.

                        I know this is obvious but nature isn't the disney channel, and we are apex predators.

                        In any case, you don't need to hear me telling you that. Think how taken aback you would be if "Simple Living" said for one day a week I want you to all eat carnivore. In reality that is probably the most healthy option; I know paradigms are hard to break and established nutritional guidelines say otherwise.

                        But heres' the deal - you should tell me shut my trap; you came here to practice not talk about nutrition science.

                        And that's exactly how we should treat any ideology that masks itself into being some sort of Buddhist teaching, even when that is some sort of political belief, agenda or nutritional religion that seems true.

                        I'm sorry - I'm not hear to be indoctrinized. And I don't want any nonsense creeping itself in. I'm here to understand and see through all my assumptions and beliefs, and any so-called Zen teacher that doesn't point us toward ourself and wants to give us a belief needs to re-evaluate their calling.

                        If we don't get to the bottom of ourselves and really practice, none of this matters - we are just robots parroting people; our rakusu just becomes another costume to make us feel special. This is not special.

                        I leave you with Ikkyu- and I promise I'm done lol

                        I Hate Incense

                        A master’s handiwork cannot be measured
                        But still priests wag their tongues explaining the “Way” and babbling about “Zen.”
                        This old monk has never cared for false piety
                        And my nose wrinkles at the dark smell of incense before the Buddha.
                        Gassho

                        Risho
                        -stlah
                        Last edited by Risho; 10-26-2019, 07:41 PM.
                        Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

                        Comment

                        • Onka
                          Member
                          • May 2019
                          • 1575

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Risho
                          Doshin this is not an attack on you by any means; I just wanted to respond to this with something that I see in Zen, and it bothers me.

                          I'm sick of "concern". Everyone's concerned. Concern does nothing; it helps nothing. Concern allows us to feel self-satisfied that we are doing something. People think that protesting or getting outraged is doing something; it's not. Action is action. Save the concern and do something. But before you can act, you need to know what you are doing; otherwise we are just sleepwalking.

                          I'm catching up on the Realizing Genjokoan readings, and early on in the Genjokoan, Dogen says something that is one of my favorite things he's ever written:



                          Proselytizing Zen - telling people to wake up and so on is delusion. Telling ourselves - actually living out those things - is enlightenment.

                          We have to be the change we want to see as Gandhi so accurately stated.

                          American Buddhism I feel has been politically appropriated. Zen should never be used as a wrapper for some sort of belief or political agenda. I'm getting sick and tired of engaged Buddhism and this idea of Zen Buddhists having to feel or believe something and take action.

                          These problems are so much bigger than any of us, and this is not the point of Zen.

                          In any case, I understand the intent; I understand that everyone wants to do good, but what turns me off about Loy and so many of these "eco-Buddhists" and engaged Buddhists is that they are taking a stand on something and trying to reify that stance with the Dharma. That's the opposite of what Zen should be. Zen is and always has been a path to understand our true place in this universe; all these other things are just a distraction even if they are painted and justified in all sorts of ways.

                          Instead of telling others how to wake up and live - we need to turn the light inward and follow our own teachings. Be an example, don't preach the example.

                          I know I know I'm totally ranting, and I'm not judging anyone's practice; that's where it gets complicated; I mean after you've done this a while you know your practice.

                          I am criticizing the state of Western Buddhism; Zen isn't supposed to be about replacing one set of ideologies with another. Sure in the beginning, fake it til you make it, but you need to dig under the layers of all ideologies - not be given new ones.

                          So while I think acting against climate change, once we actually stop freaking the f out and exaggerating things, take a measured look and see how we really can fix this, then we act. That measured response is what we learn here.

                          In any case - the same ideological crap happens with vegetariansm, and that's why I had to stop reading simple living. I mean the assumption that eating vegetables one day is better for you than meat and also simpler. Give me a break. You are better off fasting - now I'd get behind that. But that's not Buddhism, so it's still irrelevant!

                          And that's what I'm criticizing; I don't want Zen to become Disney or "Whole Foods" Zen; that's what we have here.

                          Now I could go into the science of why meat is better nutritionally; ethics is an unmeasurable and vitally important thing; I can't argue anyone and I wouldn't try

                          And that's the exact point. Nutritional ideology doesn't belong in Zen either.

                          I know this is obvious but nature isn't the disney channel, and we are apex predators.

                          In any case, you don't need to hear me telling you that. Think how taken aback you would be if "Simple Living" said for one day a week I want you to all eat carnivore. In reality that is probably the most healthy option; I know paradigms are hard to break and established nutritional guidelines say otherwise.

                          But heres' the deal - you should tell me shut my trap; you came here to practice not talk about nutrition science.

                          And that's exactly how we should treat any ideology that masks itself into being some sort of Buddhist teaching, even when that is some sort of political belief, agenda or nutritional religion that seems true.

                          I'm sorry - I'm not hear to be indoctrinized. And I don't want any nonsense creeping itself in. I'm here to understand and see through all my assumptions and beliefs, and any so-called Zen teacher that doesn't point us toward ourself and wants to give us a belief needs to re-evaluate their calling.

                          If we don't get to the bottom of ourselves and really practice, none of this matters - we are just robots parroting people; our rakusu just becomes another costume to make us feel special. This is not special.

                          I leave you with Ikkyu- and I promise I'm done lol



                          Gassho

                          Risho
                          -stlah
                          I like the vast majority of what you've written here Risho.
                          I particularly like the bits where you say things akin to don't give an example, be the example.
                          This is how I've always approached anything I've done or been involved in. Whether Veganism, Anarchism, Anti-Fascism or Unionism instead of talking about stuff or writing about stuff I did stuff.
                          A lot of the stuff I did over the years was on my own because I couldn't find people that actually wanted to do instead of talk about or have meetings about or care about etc.
                          For the record Risho I think most Vegans, Anarchists, Anti-Fascists and Unionists are just liberals playing at being radical and actually do eff all to change anything aside from pointless posturing.
                          I don't necessarily think that engaged Buddhism, whatever that is, is necessarily a bad thing unless like you say, it becomes a vehicle to push an agenda kinda like fundamentalist Christian preachers telling their flock how to vote.
                          If it is about awareness making of various things such as climate change and is framed in a way that suggests that we aren't separate from our lived environment then fine, but hand wringing and talking will do little to change anything.

                          Edit: I must admit though that we should do what we can, how we can, when we can, and with what we can and if that means bringing awareness to our interconnectedness with everything then that's a valuable contribution to life. It seems from reading above that I still harbour some bitterness about stuff.

                          Gassho
                          Anna
                          st

                          Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Tapatalk
                          Last edited by Onka; 10-26-2019, 09:53 PM.
                          穏 On (Calm)
                          火 Ka (Fires)
                          They/She.

                          Comment

                          • Meitou
                            Member
                            • Feb 2017
                            • 1656

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Risho
                            Doshin this is not an attack on you by any means; I just wanted to respond to this with something that I see in Zen, and it bothers me.

                            I'm sick of "concern". Everyone's concerned. Concern does nothing; it helps nothing. Concern allows us to feel self-satisfied that we are doing something. People think that protesting or getting outraged is doing something; it's not. Action is action. Save the concern and do something. But before you can act, you need to know what you are doing; otherwise we are just sleepwalking.

                            I'm catching up on the Realizing Genjokoan readings, and early on in the Genjokoan, Dogen says something that is one of my favorite things he's ever written:



                            Proselytizing Zen - telling people to wake up and so on is delusion. Telling ourselves - actually living out those things - is enlightenment.

                            We have to be the change we want to see as Gandhi so accurately stated.

                            American Buddhism I feel has been politically appropriated. Zen should never be used as a wrapper for some sort of belief or political agenda. I'm getting sick and tired of engaged Buddhism and this idea of Zen Buddhists having to feel or believe something and take action.

                            These problems are so much bigger than any of us, and this is not the point of Zen.

                            In any case, I understand the intent; I understand that everyone wants to do good, but what turns me off about Loy and so many of these "eco-Buddhists" and engaged Buddhists is that they are taking a stand on something and trying to reify that stance with the Dharma. That's the opposite of what Zen should be. Zen is and always has been a path to understand our true place in this universe; all these other things are just a distraction even if they are painted and justified in all sorts of ways.

                            Instead of telling others how to wake up and live - we need to turn the light inward and follow our own teachings. Be an example, don't preach the example.

                            I know I know I'm totally ranting, and I'm not judging anyone's practice; that's where it gets complicated; I mean after you've done this a while you know your practice.

                            I am criticizing the state of Western Buddhism; Zen isn't supposed to be about replacing one set of ideologies with another. Sure in the beginning, fake it til you make it, but you need to dig under the layers of all ideologies - not be given new ones.

                            So while I think acting against climate change, once we actually stop freaking the f out and exaggerating things, take a measured look and see how we really can fix this, then we act. That measured response is what we learn here.

                            In any case - the same ideological crap happens with vegetariansm, and that's why I had to stop reading simple living. I mean the assumption that eating vegetables one day is better for you than meat and also simpler. Give me a break. You are better off fasting - now I'd get behind that. But that's not Buddhism, so it's still irrelevant!

                            And that's what I'm criticizing; I don't want Zen to become Disney or "Whole Foods" Zen; that's what we have here.

                            Now I could go into the science of why meat is better nutritionally; ethics is an unmeasurable and vitally important thing; I can't argue anyone and I wouldn't try

                            And that's the exact point. Nutritional ideology doesn't belong in Zen either.

                            I know this is obvious but nature isn't the disney channel, and we are apex predators.

                            In any case, you don't need to hear me telling you that. Think how taken aback you would be if "Simple Living" said for one day a week I want you to all eat carnivore. In reality that is probably the most healthy option; I know paradigms are hard to break and established nutritional guidelines say otherwise.

                            But heres' the deal - you should tell me shut my trap; you came here to practice not talk about nutrition science.

                            And that's exactly how we should treat any ideology that masks itself into being some sort of Buddhist teaching, even when that is some sort of political belief, agenda or nutritional religion that seems true.

                            I'm sorry - I'm not hear to be indoctrinized. And I don't want any nonsense creeping itself in. I'm here to understand and see through all my assumptions and beliefs, and any so-called Zen teacher that doesn't point us toward ourself and wants to give us a belief needs to re-evaluate their calling.

                            If we don't get to the bottom of ourselves and really practice, none of this matters - we are just robots parroting people; our rakusu just becomes another costume to make us feel special. This is not special.

                            I leave you with Ikkyu- and I promise I'm done lol



                            Gassho

                            Risho
                            -stlah
                            I am sorry that you are so offended by those of us who feel and believe in something, by engaged Buddhism, by those of us who choose not to eat meat, by our politics, by our virtual signalling, by our living our lives as we choose and by who you deem to be so-called Zen teachers.
                            May you be at peace, embracing all conditions of life, including those that offend you.
                            Gassho
                            Meitou
                            sattodaylah
                            命 Mei - life
                            島 Tou - island

                            Comment

                            • Daitetsu
                              Member
                              • Oct 2012
                              • 1145

                              #15
                              Hi Risho,

                              Originally posted by Risho
                              I'm sick of "concern". Everyone's concerned. Concern does nothing; it helps nothing.
                              I disagree.
                              First: IMHO we are still not concerned enough when it comes to the state of our planet. When you really study the facts and numbers (not the news on TV which are "softened"), you come to the conclusion that the situation is dire.
                              Second: When we feel concerned, when we see how serious things are, then we can act from a foundation. We can act without being concerned with the result. We act because we think it is right.


                              Originally posted by Risho
                              American Buddhism I feel has been politically appropriated. Zen should never be used as a wrapper for some sort of belief or political agenda.
                              I also think that Buddhism should not be political. However, the problem is that many people seem to think that environmental issues have something to do with a political opinion!
                              This is not about politics, it's about the survival of living beings.


                              Originally posted by Risho
                              I'm getting sick and tired of engaged Buddhism and this idea of Zen Buddhists having to feel or believe something and take action.
                              If you think that climate change is something that you can choose to believe in or not then you don't know the scientific facts and measurements.


                              Originally posted by Risho
                              These problems are so much bigger than any of us, and this is not the point of Zen.
                              What about "to save all sentient beings"? How can one person try to save all sentient beings? And yet, we vow to try it!
                              The task of saving all sentient beings is monumental, but that is the very point! Because we try to save them nevertheless, regardless of the result. It's about trying the impossible without feeling attached to the result.



                              Originally posted by Risho
                              Instead of telling others how to wake up and live - we need to turn the light inward and follow our own teachings. Be an example, don't preach the example.
                              For me Buddhism is more than just engaging in navel-gazing.
                              Dogen and the old masters were people of their time. They wrote their texts in a time in which they did not face a disaster on a global scale.


                              Originally posted by Risho
                              I am criticizing the state of Western Buddhism; Zen isn't supposed to be about replacing one set of ideologies with another.
                              Climate change is real. It is supported by science, findings, measurements everywhere in the world. It is not an ideology.
                              I have the impression you think that climate change is just a hypothesis that might also be wrong...



                              Originally posted by Risho
                              So while I think acting against climate change, once we actually stop freaking the f out and exaggerating things, take a measured look and see how we really can fix this, then we act.
                              Who is exaggerating what? What do you refer to?



                              Originally posted by Risho
                              Nutritional ideology doesn't belong in Zen either.
                              The top three meat production and dairy enterprises produce more CO2 than the top three oil companies.
                              What has this to do with Zen? See my quote at the bottom.


                              Originally posted by Risho
                              If we don't get to the bottom of ourselves and really practice, none of this matters - we are just robots parroting people; our rakusu just becomes another costume to make us feel special.

                              Let me quote David Loy:
                              "Eminent biologists and UN reports concur that “business as usual” will drive half of all species on earth to extinction within this century. Collectively, we are violating the first precept — “do not harm living beings” — on the largest possible scale. And we cannot foresee the biological consequences for human life when so many species that invisibly contribute to our own well-being vanish from the planet. Many scientists have concluded that the survival of human civilization is at stake. We have reached a critical juncture in our biological and social evolution. There has never been a more important time in history to bring the resources of Buddhism to bear on behalf of all living beings. The four noble truths provide a framework for diagnosing our current situation and formulating appropriate guidelines — because the threats and disasters we face ultimately stem from the human mind, and therefore require profound changes within our minds. If personal suffering stems from craving and ignorance — from the three poisons of greed, ill will, and delusion — the same applies to the suffering that afflicts us on a collective scale. Our ecological emergency is a larger version of the perennial human predicament. Both as individuals and as a species, we suffer from a sense of self that feels disconnected not only from other people but from the Earth itself."

                              Dear Risho, if you see this differently, that's fine. However, you should accept other people's opinions about our practice.

                              Gassho,

                              Daitetsu

                              #sat2day
                              no thing needs to be added

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