[Ecodharma] An Ecodharma perspective on the US election

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  • Kokuu
    Dharma Transmitted Priest
    • Nov 2012
    • 6867

    [Ecodharma] An Ecodharma perspective on the US election

    Dear all

    I imagine that many of you are shocked by the US election result. Maybe some of you are happy. I don’t judge whichever way you chose to cast your ballot, if you are an American, or which side you support.

    However, what I would like to present here is a perspective from the Ecodharma way of thinking, especially as laid out by Joanna Macy and Chris Johnstone is their Active Hope book which we read together.

    As a reminder, they set out three concepts:
    1. The Great Unravelling, which is our present reality of a huge global population, unsustainable development, environmental crises (most markedly in climate and biodiversity), and increasing costs of fossil fuel production.
    2. Business as Usual, which is the way we are used to doing things based on abundant energy, capitalist economics and a model of ongoing growth and increasing consumption.
    3. The Great Turning, in which we face up to The Great Unravelling and being to tell new stories and come up with new ways to live which face our current reality. This is a hard path, although ripe with possibility.

    Although there are important concerns around the election for women and minority rights, the most clear thing for me is that the result is a win for Business as Usual. This is not said with any degree of moral superiority but a reflection of where people are right now.

    It is often said, and with some justification, that environmental concerns tend to be the privilege of those who have secure housing and a decent income where they do not have to worry too much about increases in food and energy costs. I am, in this regard, guilty as charged (although note that this situation tends to apply in developed countries, in the global south many people understand that Business as Usual is no longer possible for them).

    In America, as elsewhere in the world, people are struggling to afford housing, fuel and food. Jobs are not as secure or well-paying as they once were. In this situation, would you choose to trust an insecure future, as in The Great Turning, or in someone telling you that Business as Usual is not only possible, but can be made to work better.

    I do think this story is false, but I can totally understand why people want it to be true (and maybe it can be for some more years). Facing up to the reality of having to make large changes to society is not easy either for those at the top of the current one, who stand to lose a lot of power, status and privilege, and for those at the bottom, who are struggling with uncertainty enough as it is.

    Thus, the story of the American past, where homes were affordable, blue collar jobs paid enough, and society was based on a traditional model, is attractive to many. The problem with this, however, is that America, as with all of the developed world, was based on things that are no longer true – a relatively stable climate, cheap oil and gas, a lower global population and lower standard of living.

    Eventually, the reality of how things are will have to be faced, and the longer we leave it, the harder it will likely be. However, I know that I can retreat into comfortable stories when reality is too hard to face, so I cannot criticise others for choosing to do the same.

    I would also say that if the election went the other way, the Democrats are not offering much of an alternative to Business as Usual either. There is probably a limit to what voters are willing to accept right now, but their unwillingness to face up to why people are poor, or the structures that cause that, doesn’t provide a vision of hope to many people.

    As dharma practitioners, especially coming from an Ecodharma perspective, it seems important to continue to look to The Great Turning, an play whatever part we can, regardless of the political situation, and I mean this both in our own lives and in changing national and international policy through being a part of Buddhist and environmental communities that work with this.

    However things are now, reality is becoming more and more clear, and if there is one thing that Buddhism teaches, is that the more we separate ourselves from reality, the more we suffer. At some point this will have to be addressed. For now, people have chosen the comfort of Business as Usual, and maybe that can be understood more than other perspectives, as much as I wish it were otherwise.

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    -sattoday/lah-
  • Tairin
    Member
    • Feb 2016
    • 2855

    #2
    Thank you Kokuu.


    Tairin
    Sat today and lah
    泰林 - Tai Rin - Peaceful Woods

    Comment

    • StephenB
      Member
      • Jan 2024
      • 16

      #3
      Wants are insatiable. I remember being in a macro-economics class where my professor mentioned this economic principle. How true it seems to be. We as human beings, if left unchecked and unprincipled, can endlessly desire more wealth, more food, more comforts, more pleasures, and more material possessions. This can drive us to want and have in excess, and that excess becomes the new normal, or as you put it the new "business as usual." The Buddha experienced the extremes of ascetism and that of overindulgence in sensual gratification. In his spiritual journey he became enlightened, and saw the "middle way." Sitting zazen helps me tame the urge to constantly want more, use more, and have more. It helps me become unattached from the objects of my insatiable nature. Over the years I have become less selfish, and more self aware. My "business as usual" proclivities have lessened, and my striving to practice the middle way has become more skillful. While this election didn't turn out as I had hoped for. It reminds me that I am surrounded by people stuck in samara, wandering and wanting that which I know will not ultimately fulfill them. I see them in a state of Dukkha and hope that I might be an example of how one can lose the bands that keep us bound. Having had some experience with government myself. It isn't the vehicle that can or does lead to enlightenment, nor are it's structures, policies, and procedures able to affect the change in hearts that is necessary for humanity to be mindful, more compassionate, and more eco-aware. I hope for days ahead when governance, legislation, and policies help move countries writ large in a more positive direction. But until then, to help that come about, I will straighten my own home and order my life in such a way that influences others to do the same. Thank you for your wonderful message.

      Gassho
      Stephen
      Sat lah

      Comment

      • Matt Johnson
        Member
        • Jun 2024
        • 502

        #4
        One of the complexities I face in my commitment to the degrowth and peak-oil transition movement is reconciling my support for a systemic downsizing with the widespread fear and resistance to the collapse of capitalism. While many view this as a catastrophe to avoid at all costs, I see it as an opportunity for necessary change, albeit one that could be managed more thoughtfully. I advocate for a controlled, gradual reduction in living standards—a conscious realignment, if you will.

        Technology, contrary to popular hope, won’t save us; our civilization isn’t driven by innovation alone but by the energy that fuels it. We have to rethink everything we value.... and exceedingly few are going to do it willingly so it may just have to be done kicking and screaming.....
        As James Howard Kunstler aptly observes,

        We are entering a period of economic hardship and decline that is fundamentally different from anything we have ever seen before, and it will require us to live differently, with lower material expectations and a greater reliance on local resources and community support.”

        _/\_
        sat/ah
        matt

        PS: good primer for degrowth

        Last edited by Matt Johnson; 11-08-2024, 04:08 AM.

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40693

          #5
          Originally posted by Matt Johnson
          ...
          Technology, contrary to popular hope, won’t save us; our civilization isn’t driven by innovation alone but by the energy that fuels it. We have to rethink everything we value.... and exceedingly few are going to do it willingly so it may just have to be done kicking and screaming.....
          It is just my personal belief, but technology ... if it is used wisely (that is the BIG IF) ... is the ONLY thing that has hope of truly saving us. It is now a race against the clock to save the planet and human race.

          It is the only means by which we can find replacements for the harmful ways of industry and lifestyle we are living, such as better energy sources, replacements for meat consumption, replacements for plastics ...

          It is the strongest means to undo some of the damage we have done, such as to remove and sequester carbon from the atmosphere, to clean and replenish the seas.

          And, MOST importantly for the long term, coming technologies and medicine are the only truly effective ways with potential to change and reform destructive aspects of our present human nature, the root source of the problem, such as our compulsions to consume in excess beyond need, to be selfish and ignore the plight of our fellow sentient beings, to be addicted, to do violence in anger.

          Frankly, I can preach Buddhist values and Precepts from morning to night around here ... and I can help the few hundred people who wander into this Sangha's doors ...

          ... but we can never reach the Billions and Billions of human beings who are sharing this planet (who are most interested in their new shoes and gas prices, not the effects thereof) until we take more scientific measures. They don't and won't give a damn about the program some book or essay sets out. The American election this week is just proof of that. Buddha, Jesus, every humanist philosopher and ecologist throughout human history failed miserably in reforming human beings because their words lacked the means ... but soon we will have the means. Values of simplicity, moderation, non-violence, peace, love and caring must come from changing the hearts and minds of our species, quite literally.

          I speak about that a lot, such as here. Sorry to butt in, but all these "we must, we should" essays will not get to the real roots of the problems. Talking about reforming "capitalism" will never get to the heart of the disease until we truly reform the human heart.


          .

          .
          Gassho, Jundo
          stlah
          Last edited by Jundo; 11-08-2024, 04:45 AM.
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Matt Johnson
            Member
            • Jun 2024
            • 502

            #6
            We are facing an energy crisis. Exponential growth needs exponential energy and exponential space to process the waste.

            This is a scientifically derived value that says "you're living the wrong way"

            Stop throwing tons of money and energy at trying to continue to live in an unsustainable and unethical way.

            We need to accept a much different future and stop trying to hold on so hard to the past excesses. For people to vainly hold onto the hope that tech will save us remind me of people in their twenties trying to hold on to their drinking days... It's time for the human race to grow up and be an adult...

            Do you Jundo deny that we need to change the way we are living and lower our expectations of convenience?

            _/\_
            sat/ah
            matt

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40693

              #7
              Originally posted by Matt Johnson
              We are facing an energy crisis. Exponential growth needs exponential energy and exponential space to process the waste.

              This is a scientifically derived value that says "you're living the wrong way"

              Stop throwing tons of money and energy at trying to continue to live in an unsustainable and unethical way.

              We need to accept a much different future and stop trying to hold on so hard to the past excesses. For people to vainly hold onto the hope that tech will save us remind me of people in their twenties trying to hold on to their drinking days... It's time for the human race to grow up and be an adult...

              Do you Jundo deny that we need to change the way we are living and lower our expectations of convenience?

              _/\_
              sat/ah
              matt
              Oh, we need to do exactly what you say!

              And that is why alternative energy sources, cleaner manufacturing AND reducing human desires through medical means so that they are satisfied with moderation, "Just Enough," and are not constantly chasing the next dopamine kick in the mall or grocery ...

              ... ALL of the above are necessary to achieve what you describe, Mr. Johnson.

              Preaching to people about "buy less, consume less, recycle your plastics" is not going to do it. Why do I say it won't do it? Because preaching, lobbying and hundreds of thousands of essays, books and lectures by green folks have done little to stop the problem over the last 50 years. We need more powerful and effective solutions.

              Gassho, J
              stlah
              Last edited by Jundo; 11-09-2024, 12:44 AM.
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Matt Johnson
                Member
                • Jun 2024
                • 502

                #8
                You can't make enough solar panels with solar panels. You need oil and it's finite. our need for oil is increasing exponentially. It's all about energy return on energy invested and we're getting close to the limit.... and this is nothing to do with being an environmentalist... This is just resource scarcity which any capitalist can tell you about... So if you haven't invested in oil now's your chance...

                I'm not even telling people they need to recycle... we are way past that now...

                I'm telling people to get ready...

                The only course of action I am suggesting is communities better start getting prepared for what John Michael Greer calls "Catabolic Collapse".

                Societal decline as a series of abrupt downturns followed by periods of relative stability, a pattern he terms "catabolic collapse." In this model, societies accumulate more capital—such as infrastructure, institutions, and technologies—than they can sustainably maintain with their available resources. When maintenance costs exceed resource availability, a crisis ensues, leading to a rapid reduction in complexity and capital. After this decline, the society stabilizes at a simpler level until resource constraints trigger another crisis, repeating the cycle. This stair-step pattern contrasts with theories of gradual decline, emphasizing the episodic nature of societal collapse.

                This is not some sort of sudden apocalypse... It can actually be quite gradual... and what we need to do is manage The descent... Not try to stop it at all costs... in this situation at least by my thinking the problem is the solution... It's basically the same process that happens any place that a country has failed or Empire has fallen...

                _/\_
                sat/ah
                matt

                Comment

                • Tokan
                  Member
                  • Oct 2016
                  • 1324

                  #9
                  Gassho

                  This made me think that cellphones, particularly a life lived through your cellphone, isn't the worst way to be from the point of view of consumerism. One small gadget, a small amount of electric to keep it charged, everything from books to bank statements all online, there's even no need to have a TV anymore. We can even spend time with people anywhere in the world, so less travel needs to happen, saving those oils under Alaska from being extracted. So while we don't often see people advocating for more cell phone use, there are some upsides. Not really the solution though. I'm with Jundo on this one, I think there will (hopefully) be some technologies that help us to feel more satisfied with less stuff in our lives.

                  Gassho, Tokan

                  satlah
                  平道 島看 Heidou Tokan (Balanced Way Island Nurse)
                  I enjoy learning from everyone, I simply hope to be a friend along the way

                  Comment

                  • Matt Johnson
                    Member
                    • Jun 2024
                    • 502

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tokan
                    Gassho

                    This made me think that cellphones, particularly a life lived through your cellphone, isn't the worst way to be from the point of view of consumerism. One small gadget, a small amount of electric to keep it charged, everything from books to bank statements all online, there's even no need to have a TV anymore. We can even spend time with people anywhere in the world, so less travel needs to happen, saving those oils under Alaska from being extracted. So while we don't often see people advocating for more cell phone use, there are some upsides. Not really the solution though. I'm with Jundo on this one, I think there will (hopefully) be some technologies that help us to feel more satisfied with less stuff in our lives.
                    I don't have exact metrics for you Tokan but the "embodied" energy that it takes to create a cell phone far far exceeds the entire amount of energy that comes in and out of the device during its life or in general what's done with it (which let's face it, is mostly j**k off and I mean that both literally and figuratively)

                    The entire notion of individual responsibility or agency with regard to doing things to do our part for the environment is antiquated. That was the stuff they were telling people when I was in elementary school we are way way past that now.

                    If anything doing that kind of stuff is just to make ourselves feel better. It makes little or no difference whether I use a cell phone or fly on a plane or burn wood in my wood stove. This is a massive structural issue which is caused by corporate greed.

                    So here are the facts.

                    1. we have not, in many thousands of years, figured out a way to end human greed

                    2. our entire way of life is built on that greed and is responsible for many of the things that make our lives feel worthwhile.

                    3. no one is going to willingly give that up. and are willing to go to extreme lengths to try to continue this wrong way of living.

                    4. which means that conflicts are coming inevitably.

                    5. which means that the most logical course of action is to prepare for this inevitability. and develop skills that help us find calm and peace during the coming upheaval.

                    Go on.... ask me how...

                    _/\_
                    sat/ah
                    matt
                    Last edited by Matt Johnson; 11-09-2024, 04:08 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Tokan
                      Member
                      • Oct 2016
                      • 1324

                      #11
                      Hey Matt

                      Well, I'm afraid I agree with you that we are only trying to delay the inevitable collapse because we can't, basically, get over ourselves! However, I am pleased that so many people are much more optimistic than me and keep working hard on finding solutions - you never know, there might actually be one that doesn't involve Elon Musk and Mars colonies (also aside from everyone joining Treeleaf of course!)

                      Gassho, Tokan (satlah)
                      平道 島看 Heidou Tokan (Balanced Way Island Nurse)
                      I enjoy learning from everyone, I simply hope to be a friend along the way

                      Comment

                      • Matt Johnson
                        Member
                        • Jun 2024
                        • 502

                        #12
                        Oh by all means those who are privileged enough to be techno optimists and have the agency to even think about getting off this rock or using technology to kick the can further down the road is welcome to continue doing this... (though many of them are really wasting their time and resources to continue infinite growth on a finite planet)... many of those privileged people actually understand this and quite A few of them own bunkers now...

                        As I have said to Jundo I am very optimistic on long enough timeline. But you're talking to a guy who chose not to have biological children, moved out of the city learnt how to grow his own vegetables using season extension and learned how preserve them, built an off-grid house and uses a humanure toilet and generally lives off $2000 CAD a month.

                        All I want is the same wonderful, beautiful, dirty hippie lifestyle for all of you. It's really fun! It's totally not the end of the world. It just takes a little bit of imagination and a lot of lowering your expectations. But some people would literally kill themselves rather than live the way I live.... at least until they got used to it.... (most would feel the same way about living at a monastery or living like any of our venerable patriarchs by the way)

                        Anyhow, I sorry if my tone comes across as overly charged. I'm very passionate about this stuff.

                        _/\_
                        sat/ah
                        matt

                        Comment

                        • Tokan
                          Member
                          • Oct 2016
                          • 1324

                          #13
                          Hey Matt

                          if my tone comes across as overly charged
                          Even Zen Masters can get fired up if the situation and the topic is right - sometimes this might even be called 'skillful means!'

                          Gassho, Tokan (satlah)
                          平道 島看 Heidou Tokan (Balanced Way Island Nurse)
                          I enjoy learning from everyone, I simply hope to be a friend along the way

                          Comment

                          • Jundo
                            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                            • Apr 2006
                            • 40693

                            #14
                            As I have said to Jundo I am very optimistic on long enough timeline. But you're talking to a guy who chose not to have biological children, moved out of the city learnt how to grow his own vegetables using season extension and learned how preserve them, built an off-grid house and uses a humanure toilet and generally lives off $2000 CAD a month.
                            But that can actually be a bit selfish too, as selfish as the person who decides to spend their own money on a Ferrari and expensive resort vacations. On the one hand, you may be leaving a somewhat smaller carbon footprint (although if everyone tried to grow their own vegetable and build their own house, they would still have to denude the forests to do so ... not a problem 10,000 years ago with a tiny world human population, but certainly a disaster today if 8 billion people suddenly followed your example.) Or, on the other, you have headed for the lifeboat while leaving others to the sinking ship, perhaps?

                            Also, this is not an episode of The Last of Us. Are you going to give up availing yourself of hospitals and doctors if you are sick? You obviously still like the internet, so you do not live in the "off-grid" house all the time. And if the apocalypse comes, how long do you think you would make it out there before somebody comes to steal you seasonally extended veggies?

                            Best is to stay involved and work for the best of both worlds. There is hope.

                            Technology is like fire: If we use it wisely, it will provide heat and light. If we use it poorly, it will burn down the house and maybe the forest.

                            Gassho, J
                            stlah
                            Last edited by Jundo; 11-09-2024, 11:31 PM.
                            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                            Comment

                            • Matt Johnson
                              Member
                              • Jun 2024
                              • 502

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Jundo

                              But that can actually be a bit selfish too, as selfish as the person who decides to spend their own money on a Ferrari and expensive resort vacations. On the one hand, you may be leaving a somewhat smaller carbon footprint (although if everyone tried to grow their own vegetable and build their own house, they would still have to denude the forests to do so ... not a problem 10,000 years ago with a tiny world human population, but certainly a disaster today if 8 billion people suddenly followed your example.) Or, on the other, you have headed for the lifeboat while leaving others to the sinking ship, perhaps?
                              Game on...

                              1. You are right, we have tragically overshot our ability to come within the carrying capacity of the planet with the least resultant death (such as if we had started transition 50 years ago). We have to accept that dark fact without using as another excuse for inaction.

                              2. Accepting this dark fact we must take a look at what people should be doing to make sure that life is as pleasant as possible for those that remain after the upheavals that are coming. This is the most compassionate thing we can do.

                              3. I am not asking people to following my example. I am asking people to accept the reality of the situation so they can open their eyes and do what needs to be done. You average person living in a city would die of starvation whilst being completely surrounded by food. Some people will starve to death because they don't realize they can eat bugs (even though they love shrimp). Imagine starving to death because of picking and choosing. You dont really need to plant it... You need to know where it is, how to process it and store it.

                              4. Unfortunately, "idiot" compassion will get us nowhere. People who are not willing to realize how precarious the situation is and once realizing this do nothing to make their situation better are not an efficient use of our time and resources. Similar to Zen we can show people the way, but if they are unwilling to walk it then that's unfortunate... Though often like little children, once they see you go, they will run after you. I'm not going to stand around and try to convince people. They either have a sense of self-preservation or they don't.... and if they do I will teach ANYONE.

                              Originally posted by Jundo

                              Also, this is not an episode of The Last of Us. Are you going to give up availing yourself of hospitals and doctors if you are sick? You obviously still like the internet, so you do not live in the "off-grid" house all the time.
                              No this is more an episode of a book series called "A World Made by Hand" by James Howard Kunstler (a description not without it's foibles but fairly well thought out).

                              BTW It's good to know that you can eat burdock. Japanese people know because they have known starvation before. In fact, Japan has very intact lore about foraging food as starvation and it's horrors are never far in the Japanese psyche... I mean who would ever decide to eat chicken gizzard or raw boar testicles unless they were starving! I may not like gizzard but I'd eat it.

                              Originally posted by Jundo

                              And if the apocalypse comes, how long do you think you would make it out there before somebody comes to steal you seasonally extended veggies?
                              That's a silly statement.. The apocalypse is already here it's just alot slower than people expected and not evenly distributed.

                              The most important part of peak-oil transition work is building social capital with your community and working locally to improve everyone's lot. Again i'm not afraid they will take my veggies. I will give them my veggies because I know how: to process acorns into flour, to make maple syrup, where I planted the wild rice, how to process cattails, I know how to hunt and trap and render fat (though I don't), am comfortable foraging 6 different types of mushrooms, entomophageny... Learning these things about your area just takes interest. Not much money or land... Being poor takes practice. Collapse NOW and and avoid the rush!

                              Originally posted by Jundo

                              Best is to stay involved and work for the best of both worlds. There is hope.

                              Technology is like fire: If we use it wisely, it will provide heat and light. If we use it poorly, it will burn down the house and maybe the forest.
                              I have had one foot in both the techno-optimist world and the neo-luddite world for a long time now. It is a contradiction that no longer bothers me. Don't get me wrong, I love tech! But I love living in reality, eyes wide open.

                              _/\_
                              sat/ah
                              matt
                              Last edited by Matt Johnson; 11-10-2024, 06:12 AM.

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