The Zen Master's Dance - 2 - How To Read Dogen (to p. 12)

[Seishin]

Right this looks like nonsense so I might be on to something, if not I may just drop out

There is the fearful place in the great city of the desolated which is a city that vanishes There is the dangerous road that is the road to Vulture’s Peak, whose breadth is “five hundred yojanas.” There are passable and impassable parts seen by the turning of the Dharma flower, whereby the city vanishes and is free of the evil road still far from our destination. There is the wise leader in that great city he magically creates, who is comfortable and at ease. The dangerous road is long and unrelenting "Do not turn back!" the wise leader cries, and the Buddha sitting inside the stupa smiles, a great treasure is on the flowing stream. The Leader realizes the Dharma flower is that great treasure, "Do not turn back!" he cries once more and the Dharma flower opens revealing the Buddha of Vulture Peak before the timeless Buddha within the stupa. The non-thinking does think with the non-thinking mind, and the thinking mind does think with the non-thinking mind. When the traveller on the dangerous road experiences this state of thinking/non thinking he also enters into the state of the turning Dharma flower within and without the stupa.

This “within the stupa,” “before the Buddha,” “the treasure stupa,” and “space” are not limited to Vulture Peak; .... They are simply “non-thinking.”

OK I lifted the last part as my brain was hurting.

Sat

[Risho]

aha - I mistakenly thought that the assignment was to basically take the passage and riff on it, emulating the spirit of Dogen. But, in fact, it was just to rearrange word order to actually do what Dogen did - sometimes it may reveal something new, sometimes it's just a feel/"grok", like you said in the book. I know you've said this before, but really doing it was something else and a good practice.

Gassho

Risho
-stlah

[Jundo]

Right this looks like nonsense so I might be on to something, if not I may just drop out

YEAH! Don't drop it baby!

https://youtu.be/h2aiyzVe4oQ

Gassho, J

STLah

[Seishin]

WOT ?????? Was that what you are looking for Jundo ?

Deep bows

sat

[Jundo]

Thank you to all who volunteered to let me post your pieces on Facebook anonymously. I could have used any of them, all very nice, but I am going just to pick two as examples. Thank you to all.

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[KathyW]

I made my living writing and editing technical and regulatory documents, so I am a bit out of my comfort zone with this type of "rifting" on words. I wanted to cheat and look at what others wrote, but I didn't. I am eager to see these other efforts!

Sometimes, after a hard day’s work and a meager supper, a poor man sits and ponders his past. He obsesses about how he has wandered from town to town and from country to country, looking for a high paying job but never finding one. “If I only had more money! I would be happy and not suffer so much.”

However, one evening, as he sits, he falls into reverie, and recalls drinking wine with a friend many years ago. Apparently, he passed out, because, in the morning, he was still at his friend’s house; he was lying on the floor, covered by his own coat. Through the fog of his hangover, he witnessed his friend sitting cross-legged on a cushion facing the wall. Falling asleep again, he dreamt that he saw his friend come over to him and sew a jewel into the hem of his coat.

Startled from his reverie, the man rips open the hem of his coat and finds the jewel. Surprised, he holds its perfection close. He sits with the jewel for a while that evening. When he holds the jewel it expands his mind, brings him happiness, and relieves his suffering. He will not sell the jewel but will keep it for the rest of his life. Eventually the jewel will come to be with him even when he is not sitting with it, even when he away from his home. He will always be poor, but now he will be content with his life.

Gassho,
Kathy

Sat today

[KathyW]

Looks like I'm late to this thread and also missed the mark I enjoyed reading it all and am looking forward to seeing what Jundo posts on Facebook.

Gassho,
Kathy

Sat today.

[Stewart]

I've only just noticed the second / repeat task.

As a few others have said, this task runs against every instinct I have in terms of how to treat texts and understand them snd I'm totally uncomfortable riffing or extemporizing.

So, this will take me a while to process and attempt anything.

Stewart
Sat

[Jundo]

I made my living writing and editing technical and regulatory documents, so I am a bit out of my comfort zone with this type of "rifting" on words. I wanted to cheat and look at what others wrote, but I didn't. I am eager to see these other efforts!

Sometimes, after a hard day’s work and a meager supper, a poor man sits and ponders his past. He obsesses about how he has wandered from town to town and from country to country, looking for a high paying job but never finding one. “If I only had more money! I would be happy and not suffer so much.”

However, one evening, as he sits, he falls into reverie, and recalls drinking wine with a friend many years ago. Apparently, he passed out, because, in the morning, he was still at his friend’s house; he was lying on the floor, covered by his own coat. Through the fog of his hangover, he witnessed his friend sitting cross-legged on a cushion facing the wall. Falling asleep again, he dreamt that he saw his friend come over to him and sew a jewel into the hem of his coat.

Startled from his reverie, the man rips open the hem of his coat and finds the jewel. Surprised, he holds its perfection close. He sits with the jewel for a while that evening. When he holds the jewel it expands his mind, brings him happiness, and relieves his suffering. He will not sell the jewel but will keep it for the rest of his life. Eventually the jewel will come to be with him even when he is not sitting with it, even when he away from his home. He will always be poor, but now he will be content with his life.

Gassho,
Kathy

Sat today

Lovely, but not the task. Try again with the "Second Assignment," Kathy.

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?19084-The-Zen-Master-s-Dance-How-To-Read-Dogen-%28to-p-12%29&p=291073&viewfull=1#post291073

Gassho, Jundo

STLah

[Jundo]

I've only just noticed the second / repeat task.

As a few others have said, this task runs against every instinct I have in terms of how to treat texts and understand them snd I'm totally uncomfortable riffing or extemporizing.

So, this will take me a while to process and attempt anything.

Stewart
Sat

If it runs against your every instinct, then I am doing something right!

Think about how, when one learns to play the guitar, one first listens to tons and tons of recordings of famous solos ... Eddie Van Halen, Clapton, B.B. King ... and learns to mimic their phrases and styles, hearing and feeling what they are on about, trying to come as close as one can to "feel" what they were feeling in their stylings, memorizing and repeating and "faking" their phrasing ...

... and then, when one has the ear and feel, maybe one can get it, and how to really play.

When one learns a language, one does the same, listening to endless recordings of native speakers say "Donde esta la biblioteca" and copying that word for word, curled phrase by curled phrase, until one is able to have a feeling for, and an ear for the language.

Please try the assignment again. Better, please do the "Second Assignment" ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?19084-The-Zen-Master-s-Dance-How-To-Read-Dogen-%28to-p-12%29&p=291073&viewfull=1#post291073

Gassho, J

STLah

[Seishin]

Jundo

The guitar analogy is good but if I applied Dogen to that and in respect of all those talented players you cite, he is not playing the scale notes, he is hitting the ones in between. At least that how I see it at times. And yes that may kinda be akin to Jazz, which is an acquired taste but is difficult to appreciate, listen to let alone understand sometimes. A like some jazz almost painful to hear. I am hoping as this continues, I might get to hear these nuances of the non-scale scale.

sat

[Jundo]

Jundo

The guitar analogy is good but if I applied Dogen to that and in respect of all those talented players you cite, he is not playing the scale notes, he is hitting the ones in between. At least that how I see it at times. And yes that may kinda be akin to Jazz, which is an acquired taste but is difficult to appreciate, listen to let alone understand sometimes. A like some jazz almost painful to hear. I am hoping as this continues, I might get to hear these nuances of the non-scale scale.

sat

Eddie Van Halen's Eruption Solo might have it ...

https://youtu.be/z_lwocmL9dQ

Gassho, J

STLah

[Seishin]

I'll take your EVH and raise you Jimi at Woodstock, Just ignore all the understandable Lotus Sutra bits until he goes full Dogen.

If Buddhist were Christians, would this be blasphemy ? Coz if you raise me again I'll throw some Black Label Society in for good measure.

Oh and I hope your guitar journey continues down the middle way Grasshopper Roshi.

Ok you convinced me to stay !

Deep bows as always sire.

Sat n noodled.

[Stewart]

OK....here goes nothing.

"[Dōgen says:] There is a great treasure in a great city of the wise leader which is a desolate, fearful place. There is the great treasure that is the dangerous road, whose breadth is five hundred yojanas. There is a great treasure by a great treasure, whereby our destination vanishes and is comfortable and at ease and is far from our destination. There is the great treasure in the dark place, which is free of the evil road. Great treasure is great treasure, and the great treasure is on the great treasure. Great treasure is a great treasure, and magically creates and opens passable and impassable parts for the entrance of the city. The wise leader does reach a place with the great treasure, and the great treasure does vanish with the desolate and fearful road. When the wise leader experiences this state of comfort and ease, he also enters into the state of the dark place. [. . .] This “great treasure,” “wise leader,” “desolate road,” and “dark place” are not limited to themselves; They are simply “non-thinking.”

Stewart
Sat

[Jundo]

OK....here goes nothing.

"[Dōgen says:] There is a great treasure in a great city of the wise leader which is a desolate, fearful place. There is the great treasure that is the dangerous road, whose breadth is five hundred yojanas. There is a great treasure by a great treasure, whereby our destination vanishes and is comfortable and at ease and is far from our destination. There is the great treasure in the dark place, which is free of the evil road. Great treasure is great treasure, and the great treasure is on the great treasure. Great treasure is a great treasure, and magically creates and opens passable and impassable parts for the entrance of the city. The wise leader does reach a place with the great treasure, and the great treasure does vanish with the desolate and fearful road. When the wise leader experiences this state of comfort and ease, he also enters into the state of the dark place. [. . .] This “great treasure,” “wise leader,” “desolate road,” and “dark place” are not limited to themselves; They are simply “non-thinking.”

Stewart
Sat

https://youtu.be/9CbVy1NnB4g