WHAT IS ZEN? - Chap 2 Zazen - To P. 17

[Jundo]

So, what is 'Zazen'?

This time, we will read about half of Chapter 2, stopping on page 17 just before "Why do we sit facing the wall? ... "

This chapter has a very good basic description of sitting. Every Shikantaza teacher or group has small differences in approach, but pretty much I did not find anything in this chapter that is unlike our practice at Treeleaf. They discussed following the breath, which we also recommend here especially for new folks or anybody who benefits from having a bit of an anchor for the attention.

I do think that I emphasize a couple of important aspects that they really only touched on lightly, I think. (Actually they did a bit on page 11, in the section discussing Zazen as sitting as the Buddha sitting, and that sitting is sacred and profound.) I tend to emphasize a bit more the fact that sitting is a sacred act, to be sat as the one act to do, and one place to be in the whole world in that time of sitting (You all have heard me say that 10,000 times). I also emphasize "open awareness" a bit more, and sitting without judgments and radically without goals, but I think they do touch on that too.

If you notice any other aspects that seem the same or different or that you have a question about, now's your chance to discuss! We do cover a lot of these same question in our Forum, but always good to discuss and clarify more.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Michael Joseph]

Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho,

Michael

STLAH

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[Mp]

Thank you Jundo. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Frank Murray]

Thank you Jundo.

Gassho

Sat today, Lent a hand


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[Sekiyuu]

I really enjoyed this chapter because it mentioned things I already knew, but in a slightly different way. "Releasing your weight" to the ground below is something I notice I'm doing, but no one ever explicitly put it into words for me. "Lengthening your spine" is something that happens when you sit up straight, but focusing on that specifically is helping me get into a posture that's easier to hold and feel still without effort. Dogen's own words about what to think about during zazen are so terse that it seems like the duty of every Zen teacher to fill in the blanks, and you end up hearing something slightly different each time you listen to a new teacher.

Zazen is, fundamentally, sitting with the basic feeling of being alive.

Every moment, your life and all your feelings, thoughts, and accomplishments depend on the fact that you are embodied, breathing, and conscious, but most of us hardly ever notice these experiential facts. In zazen the task is just to be present with this basic human experience and nothing else -- simply sitting in awareness of the feeling of being alive.

That's really all that zazen is to me. All the complicated "Buddhist" stuff happens when we get off the cushion and have to start applying what we experience on the cushion with the incomprehensible, unbounded chaos of life (as if somehow we are not living while on the cushion, or not living off the cushion).

There's one part that struck me as a bit odd:

Western Buddhism is composed of, very broadly, of three traditions... Vipassana (Theravada)... Tibetan... Zen

What about the giant Chinese Pure Land temples? What about Theravada traditions brought over by Thai and Sri Lankan immigrants? Are these people "Western Buddhists" or not? I know what he's getting at here; there's a very clear distinction between "convert" Buddhism and "immigrant" Buddhism in the west. What irks me slightly is that he doesn't touch upon this distinction at all, simply because it seems to erase the existence of immigrant Buddhists in the west. I can understand, though; talking about other traditions in a book about Zen is really just a side note, and this is a side note in a chapter about zazen. The "immigrant" traditions tend to de-emphasize or discourage meditation for laypeople, so it wouldn't be very useful to go into detail here. Am I just worrying way too much about the semantics of the word "western"?

_/\_
Kenny
Sat Today

[Amelia]

Kenny,

The complicated "Buddhist stuff" off the cushion really isn't so complicated, or so different from just sitting. Don't let all the words give you the idea that there is something missing. What we practice here really is all about zazen and compassion. If you got those figured out, you're right on.

The semantics of what Western Buddhism is could really fill its own book, and any perceived omission on the subject is, I assume, to keep the book simple. It is an introduction to Zen, after all.

Gassho, say today, lah

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[Jishin]

Hi,

Buddhist literature is very dry but it’s needed to get to the good stuff.

IMG_0972.JPG

I like just sitting and chop wood and carry water.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ryushi]

Am I just worrying way too much about the semantics of the word "western"?

I may be reading between the lines, but I think when he refers to "Western", he means the practice of Western converts. I could be totally wrong but my guess is that immigrant traditions are more in line with their source countries' practice than the flavors given to Buddhism when mixed with Enlightenment expectations about equality, democracy, individualism, etc.

[Amelia]

I agree, Todd.

Gassho, sat today, lah

[Frank Murray]

Interesting points! Thanks always for sharing everyone.

I found the guidance around ways to encounter and process pain to be well described.

I find that dismantling the psychosomatics of pain encountered during Zazen to have a direct benefit toward how I handle discomfort and resistance during the busy work day.

I feel that ‘resistance’ is rightfully described as being of key relevance. When I have been able to get through times of discomfort when sitting, I find myself to be in a much more ‘durable’ state for the rest of that day.

However, I’m not qualified to assume this might be the case when the discomfort is less transient, chronic or intense.

I also find that if I am finding discomfort particularly intolerable or irritating, it’s a sure sign I’m feeling worn down and fatigued. This can be a useful prompt for some self care.

The stories our minds generate around discomfort can then be left behind, unable to latch onto us when insights on discomfort are fresh. These stories and associated emotions, can be seen for what they are and are no longer so empowered to perpetuate unnecessary suffering.

Gassho

Frank

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[Mr_Kha]

I understand that Zazen has a special form of sitting (or, actually all Buddhist meditation forms). If one is healthy, the full-lotus seat is preferred and if not, sitting on a chair can be an alternative.

I wonder what is the Zen view on lying, e.g. on the bed or ground?
I met some practioners of meditation who liked lying. They were more spiritual, not Buddhist, so to say. Is there too much "feeling" of the surrounding earth while lying during meditation?

Gassho,
Karsten

[Jundo]

I understand that Zazen has a special form of sitting (or, actually all Buddhist meditation forms). If one is healthy, the full-lotus seat is preferred and if not, sitting on a chair can be an alternative.

I wonder what is the Zen view on lying, e.g. on the bed or ground?
I met some practioners of meditation who liked lying. They were more spiritual, not Buddhist, so to say. Is there too much "feeling" of the surrounding earth while lying during meditation?

Gassho,
Karsten

I think the main concern is falling asleep! So, sitting of some kind is preferred, unless there is medical reason for reclining. Also, somehow more respectful of the act, like the difference between sitting vs. reclining in many daily activities. Some would say there there is some more physiological reason, such as ki flow or the like, but I am skeptical of such reasons.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Meishin]

I understand that Zazen has a special form of sitting (or, actually all Buddhist meditation forms). If one is healthy, the full-lotus seat is preferred and if not, sitting on a chair can be an alternative.

I wonder how much is due primarily to Asian culture? The Berliner Philharmoniker did an Asian tour, and one segment of the video showed about 300 students at a concert. They were sitting erect on chairs that were spaced precisely apart. It looked a little eerie but not dissimilar from a row of monks in a Zen hall. One of the musicians said she had never known an audience that was as still and as apparently focused on listening. That would not have been the case at any western concert for adolescents. And as a psychologist, I wondered why the 5% diagnosed ADHD were not in attendance

Gassho
Meishin
Sat Today LAH

[Jishin]

Hi,

When Jundo is around I sit like Buddha. When he is not around I lay like Buddha. Or the other way around. Hard to say. Appearances are very important. [emoji2]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jundo]

One aspect is that, around here, we have always had a somewhat more flexible (pun intended) approach to sitting posture. Some Zen groups from Japan (yes, even Nishijima Roshi was a bit like this) can be a bit fixated on the Lotus Postures (especially the Full Lotus) as having special powers, one size fits all, almost to the point of fetishizing that one way to sit. In fact, it is a wonderful way to sit, facilitating balance and stability of mind ... for some. In fact, other stable and balanced ways to sit are good too.

Around here, we emphasize finding the stable, balanced posture (preferably seated) right for your body, and that may even change somewhat.

I always very much recommend this book on sitting posture.

Book Recommendation: - THE POSTURE OF MEDITATION

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?6913-Book-Recommendation-THE-POSTURE-OF-MEDITATION

And for folks who, because of medical issues, have no comfortable way to sit whatsoever, remember that the key to Shikantaza is to sit with "what is" whatever that is.

Gassho, J

STLAH