6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

[Eika]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

p.31 "We are these living Buddhas!"

What a beautiful way to end the intro.

To the extent that lineage reinforces the idea that we are special, different, and separate from one another, it doesn't matter.

To the extent that lineage reminds us of the myriad paths within the Path, and inspires our practice, and supports our will to truth, lineage is important.

Gassho,
Eika

[CraigfromAz]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

... your ancestors, the lineage is undeniably part of you, transmitted thru your DNA, and for some mind to mind transmission of buddha nature is real, I believe.
/Rich

Biologically, this is undeniably true. However, your lineage is not just your father, but your mother, your grandparents, great grandparents, etc., multiplying out to an innumerable number of people that have contributed to your DNA. I suspect this is also true of buddha nature - the one to one tranmsission from master to a single student tells only a small part of the story, no?

[Rich]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

... your ancestors, the lineage is undeniably part of you, transmitted thru your DNA, and for some mind to mind transmission of buddha nature is real, I believe.
/Rich

Biologically, this is undeniably true. However, your lineage is not just your father, but your mother, your grandparents, great grandparents, etc., multiplying out to an innumerable number of people that have contributed to your DNA. I suspect this is also true of buddha nature - the one to one tranmsission from master to a single student tells only a small part of the story, no?

I don't know but it might be the whole story. Maybe someone who has had that experience can comment.

/Rich

[jrh001]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hi,

Some personal notes and comments on this week's topic:

* Lineage establishes the credentials of the teacher.
* Every master and teacher traces his/her lineage back to Shakyamuni.
* The charted lineage may not be accurate so I don't really see how it establishes authenticity. Something to argue over I suppose and all/most religions argue over lineage.
* The Denkoroku lineage was written to establish a clear link from Soto Zen in Japan to Zen in China and way back to Buddhism in India.
* Transmission is an endorsement from one enlightened individual to another. No 'thing' is transmitted when the burning wick of one candle ignites another which lights another and so on.
* The question arises, does the lineage start with Shakyamuni? And what about before him? And a related question, can enlightenment occur outside of the lineages? According to the sutras, the wheel started turning with Shakyamuni's enlightenment.
* Les Nixon refers to Bernard Glassman's "own resolution of some 1000 Zen koans" and I'm surprised that a master has counted them.
* Tantra is mentioned a few times but I'm not really sure what tantra is.

gassho,

JohnH

[BrianW]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hello all,

I must say these books look incredible! I am fascinated right from the start and, perhaps, it is my ignorance of Zen, but I am continually astounded by the uniqueness of the teachings.

The accuracy of the historical lineage does make a difference. It would be nice to know the veracity of certain claims and obviously Hixon makes mention of some pretty incredible stories. One could get carried away on believing in these myths as being literally true and this could play havoc with one's practice. Nevertheless, as Cook states:

"The stern literalist who insists that the story is meaningless nonsense because it never actually happened is truly missing the whole point and needs to think seriously about the nature and function of myth. Much of the biography of the Buddha is also mythic, intended to present a model of the religious life for later followers. A story does not have to be literally true to be true in terms of religious life."

Although a worthy pursuit for historians, my primary interest is not so much the historical Buddha but that of finding the "living Buddha" in the here and now.

Gassho,
Jisen/BrianW

[Taylor]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

* Tantra is mentioned a few times but I'm not really sure what tantra is.

From my limited study with the Tibetan Community I can tell you this: Tantra is known as a "fruitional path" as in, what happens in life is not modified to fit a set standard (aka adhering to celibacy for layfolk, doing this and that) but what happens in one's life is transformed by the means of visualization on the empty nature of the meditational deity (purifying body) the spoken mantra (purifying speech) and the ultimate nondual nature of the deity's mind (purifying mind). In that way, we "get used to" being enlightened and see ourselves and all others as the nature of the deity by means of the methods listed above. I can't speak of the Shingon school in Japan but this is a basic view on Tantra from the Tibetan standpoint, probably not too terribly different?

On a personal note, I really get excited when I learn that lineage masters practiced tantra. Not because I want some hidden esoteric yogic skill, but because I see a similarity in myself. Moving from Tantra to Zen to find oneself in a long lost home But anyways, hoped that helped a bit!

Gassho
Taylor

[Silva]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Lineage seems to be a deeply human need. We want to know the family tree. Adopted children track down their birth parents in later life.

I have had that experience, the "Holy Grail" of my life, when I succeeded in finding them it was not the result I expected. I realized that what I took 45 years for a tragedy was in fact my good fortune. It contributed to the revelation of the mystery of "Not always so" Jundo talked about in one of his videos!

Now Im 50, a bit long in the tooth to be adopted, but why not, Dogen as a father, Keizan as a mother and a Sangha of brothers and sisters!
gassho,
Sylvie

[Taigu]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Very deep and profound realization, Sylvie.
Thank you for this.


gassho

Taigu

[Jen]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

I agree with much of what has been said already, but will add my two cents anyway

I visualize lineage as a giant quilt. While a few threads can be cut and not sacrifice the overall usefullness or beauty of the quilt, cut out too many threads and the quilt can no longer perform its function of warming the body. Even after the designs on the quilt begin to fade in parts, and after repairs to broken threads alter the quilt from its original design, the quilt still provides warmth and serves its function.

Like the quilt after many years of use and mending, the lineage of Zen is not the same lineage is was. It has evolved, become worn and forgotten in parts, and some threads have broken and been mended. Yet,like the quilt the lineage still serves a purpose, if nothing else but to remind us we that when we sit alone we are not alone.

Gassho,
Joshin

[Tb]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

I agree with much of what has been said already, but will add my two cents anyway

I visualize lineage as a giant quilt. While a few threads can be cut and not sacrifice the overall usefullness or beauty of the quilt, cut out too many threads and the quilt can no longer perform its function of warming the body. Even after the designs on the quilt begin to fade in parts, and after repairs to broken threads alter the quilt from its original design, the quilt still provides warmth and serves its function.

Like the quilt after many years of use and mending, the lineage of Zen is not the same lineage is was. It has evolved, become worn and forgotten in parts, and some threads have broken and been mended. Yet,like the quilt the lineage still serves a purpose, if nothing else but to remind us we that when we sit alone we are not alone.

Gassho,
Joshin

Hi.

Thank you Joshin.
Beautifully said.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Taigu]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Joshin,

You are talking here about a very advanced and profound meaning of the okesa, the lineage as a robe, the robe as the lineage itself.

Sewing the robe makes you understand...Truly, not just in your head: it penetrates hands, skin, veins, flesh, bones and marrow.

gassho


Taigu

[Dosho]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hi all,

I've thought about Jundo's questions all week and all I can come up with is, "I don't know". Genealogy has always been important in my family, but here we're talking about myth which I don't have much experience with. That said, we can always learn new things from our past that inform our present and often the stories families tell are more precious that ancestry charts. Can that be applied to lineage...probably to some degree. Some in this thread have said that they think Hixon takes many of these myths/stories to be completely accurate...I didn't come away from his introduction thinking that at all, so maybe I need to re-read the section.

Hopefully next week I'll have something a bit better than, "I don't know." But as I often tell my son, saying you don't know something can be the smartest response of all and quickest way to learning something new. I guess I should take my own advice and leave it at that...for now.

Gassho,
Dosho

[JamesVB]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

- Is lineage in Buddhism, like a family's 'roots', important?

For me, no.

- Does it matter ... lineage is actually unknown or symbolic?

For me, no.

...can we say that the connection to the Buddha is still true ...?

We can say anything we want, but since we are all jewels in Indra's net, why attempt to incise the interconnected oneness of all?

[Jikyo]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hello everyone,

For me, lineage in Buddhism, whether actually known or simply symbolic, holds no importance. I can see how it might for some folks, though. It can be very interesting, but as many "interesting" things do, it can obscure and distract from what might be more useful in one's practice. Also, being too enamored of the idea of lineage has the potential to deepen the illusion of separateness and create feelings and attitudes of superiority and inferiority, neither of which serve any purpose.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed Hixon's introduction and found it quite timely, as I had just watched a lovely talk with Bernie Glassman and Jeff Bridges on the Tricycle website. Looking forward to diving in.

Gassho, Jikyo

[AlanLa]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Umm, I've read about a third of the posts and JUST HAD to skip ahead. People are talking about lineage and I feel the strong desire to say my lineage in Buddhism includes a WHOLE BUNCH of people in my current lifetime that weren't Buddhists at all, yet they were all buddhas. I Really Really Appreciate and Value the Lineage List I was given during Jukai, but my Real List is Much Much Bigger and ignores generations (which are as false as life and death anyway).

OK, I'll go back to reading now.

OK, done reading now:
My mom has gone to some considerable trouble to trace her family back a few generation to its native Norway. A few years ago she presented this to me in a 3-ring binder to which I responded with a polite "oh, thanks" at the time. But then I looked through all the pictures and documents. OOPS! It was transformational to know where I, at least in part, came from. This knowledge immediately influenced my view of who I was. Truly, I was different before and after, yet now i know that all that matters is this all adds up to who I am now. SO I feel I have many lineages, all important in their own way.