6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

[Silva]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

I don't actually know what transmission in Buddhism really consists of.
I can only relate to it through my own experience, so I'm going to relate a few anecdotes of my experience in art.
I'm probably way ot of the subject so I can only hope you will all put me on the right track!

I remember when I was an art student I had an incredible drawing master. He would demand that we should present him 50 drawings a week . Each week we would queue up to him and he would sift and scowl through our drawings, if we were lucky he would set one drawing aside then gather the others together and say “Au feu!” meaning we could chuck them into the fire! He hardly spoke , just made a few scribbles on our drawings to indicate a direction we had to figure out ourselves. Needless to say a lot of people dropped out of his classes, but there were a few whackos like me who revered him! He made us draw everything, from a thimble to a animals at the zoo… Sometimes there would be a pat on the shoulder; often he’d ring my ear! After three years or so he asked a small group of us to wait behind after the class. He took us to the library and ordered various very rare books from the reserve. He showed us old master drawings : Leonardo da Vinci, Carravaggio, Tintorento, all the way through art history, Ingres, Cézanne, Picasso…then some of his teacher, Zwoboda, and then his own… Then he told us to take out our own drawing. He told us that the teaching he had taught us he had learnt from his own master, and that it was the same teaching that had learnt and been taught by these old masters over the centuries. We were all in awe of course, rather ashamed to display our dreadful drawings next to all these grand masters! However we were amazed to observe how here and there we could define a similar “impetus” which seemed to link one to the other. I lived that experience, and I know that my companions also, as a transmission of lineage.
Twenty-five years later I had an exhibition of my drawings in Limoges and during the opening a man came up to me, about 15 years my elder, saying he had already seen my work before and questioned me about where I had exhibited. I answered that he couldn’t have seen my drawings before as it was the first time I was showing them. He seemed perplexed and looked again very attentively at my drawings and suddenly exclaimed “ Ah! You’re a student of R.P.!” I was amazed and so pleased; I asked him how he had guessed. It turned out that he too was an artist and had been a student of the same master! Although I was unaware of it the teaching must be well anchored in me… I think that when my master was assured that this was the case he would put his students through a similar experience.
Another anecdote is , after having met this other old student of my master, we would meet once a week with a group of artists to draw together. In the group there was an old 80 water-colorist who’d been drawing for over 60 years and who we all considered a master. Sitting side by side one day, to my surprise he was sighing in despair and tearing up several attempted sketches. I watched in sympathy and wondered how with his experience and skill could still have trouble drawing. As he chucked another screwed up ball of paper away he looked at me shaking his head and said “It’s no use, bad today!” We giggled merrily. For me this was also was also another experience of transmission, the transmission of eternal humility in a practise.
No matter how long we practice, and this will sound familiar, we are forever beginners.
Although these transmissions are unconditional I feel they only have meaning when I myself attempt to transmit to others.
Are my experiences similar to the Buddhist transmission of lineage ?
If they are then yes, I think transmission of lineage in Buddhism is important.
gassho

Sylvie

[Rich]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Sylvie, that was a wonderful transmission story. Just as your drawings are just like the great masters, with practice your body mind will be just like the great Buddhas. Each time you return to the present moment is like being a great masterpiece.

/Rich

[Silva]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

As he chucked another screwed up ball of paper away he looked at me shaking his head and said “It’s no use, bad today!” We giggled merrily. For me this was also was also another experience of transmission, the transmission of eternal humility in a practise.
No matter how long we practice, and this will sound familiar, we are forever beginners

I'm afraid I'm not very clear in what I write. This text being both anecdote and a metaphor!

There came from this experience an understanding that no matter how many decades one practices, each drawing is like the first drawing with the full potential of being a good or a bad drawing, and then when one draws this potential actually disappears as what is important is to fulfill the act of drawing. Drawing after drawing, each one different testifies how much we change from moment to moment.

Thus similarily as I understand and have already heard here, there is no bad Zazen!
I believe that is testified also through generation after generation of Masters.
Is this of any worth, do I believe it worthwhile to continue this testimony?
Is that why we are reading these books ?
To answer this question ?

[Jundo]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

There came from this experience an understanding that no matter how many decades one practices, each drawing is like the first drawing with the full potential of being a good or a bad drawing, and then when one draws this potential actually disappears as what is important is to fulfill the act of drawing. Drawing after drawing, each one different testifies how much we change from moment to moment.

Thus similarily as I understand and have already heard here, there is no bad Zazen!
I believe that is testified also through generation after generation of Masters.
Is this of any worth, do I believe it worthwhile to continue this testimony?
Is that why we are reading these books ?
To answer this question ?

Such is why I have always felt that 'Zen Practice' is more an "art" than a religion ... it is composing a poem, drawing a picture, making music ever new, moment by moment, which is just our life ... beginning again, beginning again ... ever bringing forth life from the white paper or canvas or silence ...

The poem or work or song that results is partly the product of circumstance, our materials, our own hand, the weather ... yet so much up to each of us. We can make it beautiful and harmonious or ugly and pain filled. Happy or sad, it is all just the composition which is life ... nothing to reject.

[Rimon]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

And by the way. What is our own lineage? If it's not aristocratic enough i might consider leaving... ;-)

Only joking of course

The Lineage is here.

http://www.treeleaf.org/articles/Treele ... neage.html



They were just men ... tall short fat skinny easy and difficult. But we can honor and remember our ancestors, even never having met them. We still meet them nonetheless.

As with our own blood families ... all the DNA we carry ... whoever they were. THANK YOU TO THEM! Whoever they were ... we are them and they just us. Thanks to them, here we are ... ALIVE!

Gassho, J

Thanks for sharing.

I found it very moving, to view the lineage from Master Dogen to Master Jundo.
I'm going to print it down and have it close to my meditation spot.

Gassho

Da5id

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hello all! Great to be reading with you. So...

Lineage in Buddhism: is it important?

Good question. According to Cook’s introduction, it was certainly important to Master Keizan, as he attempted to win legitimacy for his line after the split at Eihei-ji. And it remains important today, as each Zen teacher invokes their lineage as their credentials to teach. Even the student, with the teacher’s signature at the back of the Rakusu, with the Blood Vein papers, even the student seeks some kind of legitimacy from a lineage stretching back to the historical Buddha. So, in the living culture and tradition of Buddhism, lineage is highly prized.

But is it actually, in reality, important?

Well, for Shakyamuni it was a case of the initiation of a tradition. His living enlightenment experience, in the here and now, is far beyond (Gate Gate Paragate) the issue of lineage. And so it is for the Zen student today as they practice Zazen. That, to respond to Taigu’s question, is where we are in there, where the experience of the ancestors in the line becomes our living experience. It is, as Jundo says, “the direct connection to the Buddha and his Teachings … in each moment of Zazen”. It is a pure experience, beyond all issues of lineage.

So, does that mean we can dispense with lineage altogether? I don’t think so.

Because our human lives are limited in time-scale, we look to lineage, tradition, history and myth to breech the gap between generations, to ensure the insights of the past can be passed on to future generations. As a teacher myself (Journalism at a college in Dublin) I appreciate the student-teacher relationship. The student can learn from the teacher and the teacher can learn from the student. What this line of communication entails is the two-way transmission of knowledge. The inherited tradition of the teacher is challenged by the living experience of the student. The student, in turn, has the arrogance of youth and inexperience challenged by the inherited and learned wisdom of the teacher. It is a vital ‘warm hand to warm hand’ transmission.

So, lineage is important for many reasons. It limits the possibilities of the corruption of the original insight. It passes on ‘the light’ from one generation to the next. It checks the upstart swagger of the student within the solid sense of tradition. But it also sees that tradition gaining new life, as the fresh perspective of the student challenges its validity within each generation.

But what of Jundo’s question: does it matter if many of the stories of the transmission of light are just stories rather than history?

Well, we do need to be cognisant of it. For me, Hixon is too ready to accept myth as truth in his introduction. All those fantastic stories he presents as believable facts. I had far too much of that growing up as a Catholic. I think of the teaching of the Kalama Sutra here: teachings should be practical and open to free inquiry and testing. That practical attitude brought me to Zen in the first place. Cook shows more skepticism in his introduction, while respecting the power and meaning of myth.

And my own opinion?

Well, myth emerged as a way to transmit essential truths before history existed. So, the essential meaning and value of the teachings is in no way diminished by being myth. However, we need to interpret myth, rather than accept it as actual historical fact. Look at all the trouble literal readings of the Bible has got us into...

Finally, I think we need to be aware that the direct perception of reality, unmediated by culture and ideology, is problematic in these texts. Just look at the absence of female Buddhas that Hixon rightly draws attention to. All texts are the products of a time and place. They are saturated in the culture in which they were produced. But great texts transcend this and talk to us across time and space.

As for the direct perception of reality, unmediated by culture and ideology … that only comes in Zazen, in the ‘special transmission outside scripture’ … in the sweat running down the back that Taigu talks about. For this, it is more important to sit than read. But there is much to learn in reading too...

...but more in silence (so, time for me to shut up!) :roll:

Gassho
Soen

[Hogo]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

On the question of lineage........ I don't know, but it's cool to contemplate.
Gassho ~ Dave.

[monkton]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Thinking about the question of lineage and its importance (or non-importance), I'm reminded of the last paragraph of the "Epistle of the Elders of Balby" from 1656:

"Dearly beloved friends, these things we do not lay upon you as a rule or form to walk by, but that all with the measure of light which is pure and holy may be guided, and so in the light walking and abiding these may be fulfilled in the Spirit, – not from the letter, for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life."

That covers my view at the moment: the lineage is not to be ignored, but fetishizing destroys its value.

gassho,
Monkton

[Genkai]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

I don't have the text in front of me so I'm paraphrasing from memory, but Hixon's view seemed to me to be quite pragmatic on the issue of what we're calling "myth," or the "symbolic" nature of each account. The stories of the patriarchs may be embellished, but is that really what's important?

Each transmission tale can be viewed as a literal description of one master and one student, or we can look at that story as an allegory for the entire generation. What I got from Hixon was that the minutiae of the life of each Patriarch was not so important, and to dwell on trying to explain or justify some of the more fantastical aspects was missing the point. The lineage is traced back through students and masters, through times and places... but the individuals, the details, the circumstances aren't as important as seeing the flow of knowledge and understanding down through the ages.

(As an aside -- Like Soen, I was brought up in a Catholic tradition that promoted a literal interpretation of scripture. It's refreshing to know that scholars and historians readily acknowledge the symbolic nature of these histories.)


Answering the question "Is lineage important?" depends on how you understand "Lineage." Is an ages-long string of accounts of Masters and Students the lineage? Or is the lineage better defined by what was being transmitted?

It's very useful and valuable to be able to view the transmission in these linear terms, associating the progression of the Light through names, dates, places, and circumstances. It grounds some rather intangible ideas to more flesh-and-bone reality, and certainly makes it easier to put down on paper for future study.

But is the real lineage, the real crux of the matter, deeper than the flesh-and-bones, and beyond what can be printed on paper in a nice neat timeline? Not to get ahead of our reading, but I think what we'll see as we move through each transmission story is that the moment of transmission doesn't happen when the student's nose is stuck in a book, or reverently paying homage to some Master of the past. The moments come at times of profound understanding -- at moments when years of study and practice come together.

It's in this deeper viewing where things come back to us. While it's certainly difficult for us to relate directly to someone who lived 1,500 years ago and a half a world away, it's not so hard to relate to the simple monk sitting quietly, or sweeping the temple grounds, or tending the garden.

Hixon goes out of his way to illustrate the sorts of different worlds many of the Patriarchs came from, and in doing so, he breaks down the divisions between those worlds. Princes and beggars and monks and farmers alike, there's a common thread that exists outside the sort of linear model the timeline creates.

While each story in the "Lineage" is remarkably different, each story in the "Lineage" is remarkably the same. Perhaps when we sit down and study, we're at the edge of the linear aspect of the Master-to-Student timeline; when we sit down and just sit, we're dropping the limitations of such linear understanding and joining a more amorphous community. Two sides, one coin?

[Fuken]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

My thoughts on this subject have been varied over the years.
Some of my heros of Zen famously torched their linage and transmission documents saying things like "I don't believe in paper Zen"
To a certain extent I admire their spirit.

By the same token, the linage was very important to master Dogen, so I think it is something to be considered deeply.

As a symbol of an unbroken line of transmission back to the Buddha, I love the romance of it.

But as others have said, if it becomes an attachment then it is trouble. At the same time, as I am slowly learning, aversion is just another form of attachment.

Yours in practice,
Jordan

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Lineage seems to be a deeply human need. We want to know the family tree. Adopted children track down their birth parents in later life. Americans come to Ireland to see the cottage in which their Great-Grandfather was born. Zen Masters are human beings before they are Zen Masters. I guess it’s natural that lineage should matter in Zen too.

Soen
(or)
Ian
Son of Michael
Son of Michael
Son of Michael
Son of…

By the way, on the Aran Islands, a beautiful barren place off the West coast of Ireland, I’d be known as ‘Ian Michael Michael’, allowing everyone know who my father and grandfather were … all built in to my own name. In fact, I once had red hair, so I’d have been ‘Ian Michael Michael Rua’, the rua meaning red. Often a distinguishing feature was also built into the name.

I’m sure many cultures have this kind of thing.

Sorry … I’m going on again. :roll:

Gassho,

Soen

[Hans]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hey Soen,

I enjoyed the information you just gave us.

Living through one's descendants (biological or ideological), or those descendants living through that/those who came before them is a big reminder that the Quest of Zen, the great matter of life and death....the search for the holy grail...whatever you wish to call it, is bigger than a limited personal lifetime and transcends generations. Through pointing to our lineage, we can feel the intimacy between all dharmas. Do we need lineage papers in an ultimate sense? No, I do not think so...but our sense of belonging is an imaginary rice cake that can be very nourishing indeed, especially when times are bad and a harvest of doubt might draw near. Fear not, this lineage says, we have lived through this before and endured.

Gassho,

Hans

[Taylor]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Previously unnoticed to me before reading this thread more deeply, lineage is something I subconsciously refer to. Or, at the very least, select members for inspiration. Just as Hans said, we look to our ancestors to see that there are others who have treaded this path before. Often, when sitting is something seemingly annoying or, at worst, unbearable Dogen seems to smack me in the back of the head. Now, I WISH Dogen would come and do that in reality, but more so it is the inspiration I derive from his example of commitment and determination. So when twenty minutes seems like an eternity, or when I am tired at night, Dogen or Shakyamuni come and yank me by the hair out of my stupor and set me back upright.

Taylor

[CraigfromAz]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

I don't think I can answer the questions ("is lineage important?" and "does it matter if this stuff is all true?") for myself until after I read the books. However, my gut reaction is "no - lineage doesn't matter", it is the story/lessons of transmission that is important. To put it another way - would the books and stories suddenly become less worthwhile if Keizan (sp?) had chosen to only describe the twenty or thirty most important/most inspirational transmission stories? I don't think so, but only a good reading will tell.

What about the truth of the stories? It depends on what is made up and what is true. How many of us would be willing to sit for hours on a cushion, staring at a wall, if we thought there was a chance that all this talk of Buddhism was just a sci-fi story?

All that said, intellectually I prefer Cook's approach, but am more looking forward to reading Hixon's writing!

[Rich]

Re: 6/11 TRANSMISSION of the LIGHT: Introduction

Hmm, I've read quite a few of Hixon's stories and some seem over the top sort of embellished. So the stories are what you make of them based on your current situation and understanding, but your ancestors, the lineage is undeniably part of you, transmitted thru your DNA, and for some mind to mind transmission of buddha nature is real, I believe.
/Rich