7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 39450

    7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

    Hello Footballers,

    It is helpful to keep in mind that this week's talks, 1-16 to 1-20, were directed at monks, not householding folks ... and are something of "football locker room pep talks" to the players.

    Dogen could come across, like many Zen coaches in the heat of practice for the big game, like a hard-ass, spurring on his players. I am not sure who a famous "soccer" coach would be (being an ignorant Yank ... I googled "Alex Ferguson" and "Raymond Domenech"), but Dogen could be the Vince Lombardi of American football. Hard as nails and taking no compromise ... except when he wasn't.

    I don't think it necessary to take Dogen literally here. Dogen's philosophy that "all our daily deeds are Zazen" can apply quite well to those of us with diapers to change and reports to write for the boss. In fact, Dogen often took that tone more in his writings to his lay followers, many of which we will come across in other sections of Zuimonki. So, no need to take literally his admonitions today ... such as in 1-16 ... that we'd all best get out our begging bowls and "Buddha will provide for us". Working for a living, and a paycheck to feed the family, can be one's "begging bowl" too.

    As I often underline, many of these talks were for 13th Century Japanese monks living in a monastery ... thus, monk-ing was their career as much as your career is yours. I am sure your own boss sounds as 'hard-ass' about getting that report done as Dogen sounds to his 'employees' sometimes.

    Enjoy! (The readings are a little long in length this week).

    Gassho, The Gipper
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
  • Tb
    Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 3186

    #2
    Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

    Hi.

    1-16

    Someone asked, “Although fame and profit are difficult to give up, since pursuing them is a great obstruction to practicing the Way, they should be abandoned. Hence, I gave them up.
    Did he really? Remember the story about the two monks meeting a girl at a stream and helped her over...

    Someone advised me saying, ‘Your way of practice is extreme. You don’t understand this age and do not reflect upon your capability. Our nature is inferior and this is the degenerate-age 3 . If you continue to practice in such a way, it will become a cause of backsliding from the Way. Seek the support of some patron, take care of your body by living in a quiet place without worrying about food or clothing, and practice the Buddha Way peacefully. This is not greed for property or belongings. You should practice after having provided for your temporal means of livelihood.’

    Although I listened to his advice, I do not yet believe it. How should we consider these things?”

    Dogen replied, “Just study carefully the conduct of Zen monks, along with the lifestyle of the buddhas and patriarchs. Although the customs of the three countries are different, those who truly study the Way have never practiced in the manner you have described. Just do not be attached to worldly affairs but study the Way in a straightforward manner.”
    Each in his own way, there is no other way...
    It's as he says later on
    We simply have to use as much wisdom as we possess.
    Each one of us has buddha-nature.
    This reminds me of a Hakuin poem...

    All beings are Buddha by nature,
    just as water and ice are the same.
    Without water there’s no ice,
    outside of beings, no Buddha.


    http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/2009/06/hakuin-poem.html

    Not to forget.
    But what is outside?

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

    And the attachment is important...
    Life is our temple and its all good practice
    Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

    Comment

    • Rich
      Member
      • Apr 2009
      • 2601

      #3
      Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

      1-16
      "Do not store up even what you have been given, nor run around searching for things."

      Suzy Orman says to save 8 months expenses in case you lose your income
      My job involves running around searching for things. Sorry about that, Dogen. :lol:
      _/_
      Rich
      MUHYO
      無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

      https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 39450

        #4
        Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

        Originally posted by Rich
        1-16
        "Do not store up even what you have been given, nor run around searching for things."

        Suzy Orman says to save 8 months expenses in case you lose your income
        My job involves running around searching for things. Sorry about that, Dogen. :lol:
        An interesting contrast to Master Dogen's advice to his monks is Guatama Buddha's advice to householders on a moderate and frugal lifestyle, which was raised today on another thread. Please have a look if you have not seen that.

        viewtopic.php?p=26014#p26014

        Gassho, Jundo
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

        Comment

        • Rich
          Member
          • Apr 2009
          • 2601

          #5
          Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

          1-17
          "Only a few eccentric and immoral monks engage in such indecent talk. "

          The last thing you want is a few monks coming into town talking lewd and wantin you know what.
          _/_
          Rich
          MUHYO
          無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

          https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

          Comment

          • Cameron
            Member
            • Jun 2009
            • 42

            #6
            Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

            1-18 "Do good things secretly while people are not watching, and if you make a mistake or do something bad, confess and repent of it. "

            "Do good things secretly while people are not watching" - I think this can include not doing bad things while people are not watching. Think: Which people? Should you consider the ones who are present but not watching or the ones who are not present? Or both? I think "not watching" can also be thought of as "not paying attention", "not being on the same wavelength", "not understanding"... something like that.

            I think that "good things" should be considered in a very broad sense, very generally... like not just boyscout good deeds, but things like being patient, being polite, being proactive... etc. (wise conduct, I suppose). How can wise conduct be done secretively? Do not assume anyone will notice and do not value acknowledgment. If nobody notices, then its a secret. If you crave acknowledgment, you will blow your cover. Someone might notice and someone might give credit, but thoughts about these things should be abandoned.

            "if you make a mistake or do something bad, confess and repent of it." - If you let the cat out of the bag, you can truly forgive yourself.

            I think mistakes and bad deeds are generally straightforward, but maybe not simple, to handle... confess, repent, forgive yourself, move on.


            Cam

            Comment

            • Rich
              Member
              • Apr 2009
              • 2601

              #7
              Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

              1-18
              ". For example, they revere and make offerings to monks who observe the precepts and eat in accordance with the regulations (one meal before noon) while in public eyes, but they withhold offerings to shameless monks who break the precepts, drink liquor, and eat meat, judging them to be worthless. This biased discriminating mind goes entirely against the spirit of the Buddha.

              Help everyone, don't discriminate.
              _/_
              Rich
              MUHYO
              無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

              https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

              Comment

              • StephanCOH
                Member
                • Apr 2009
                • 67

                #8
                Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

                1-16:
                "Do not store up even what you have been given, nor run around searching for things."
                This sentence got me. I am easily drawn to collect stuff. Comics, toys, sneakers, cds or vinyl etc. It's good to have a reminder that these are nice things, but they are not as important as they sometimes seem to be.

                Another part of the chapter ("In this world, inherently each person receives a certain amount of food and clothing as a gift. It does not come by being sought after nor does it stop coming by not seeking after it. Just leave it to fate and do not worry about it.") sounds a little strange to me. To be honest, this sounds like complete nonsense to me and I just have to take look around to see that.

                1-17:
                Don't talk about lewd-things. Can be fun for a second, but can cause intense pain and misery for a much longer time.

                1-18:
                Don't do good because you want to be rewarded. Do everything as good and with as much passion as you can. If you fail, do it better next time. If you succeed, that's your reward.

                1-19:
                Help other people, but do not do it to feel good about it (which is just another way of ego-attachement).

                Comment

                • Tb
                  Member
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 3186

                  #9
                  Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

                  Hi.

                  1-17

                  Needless to say, monks must concern themselves only with the Buddha-Way.
                  What is not "the Buddha-way"?

                  In the Scriptures, it is said, “Though coarse and violent actions may sometimes cause people to wake up, worthless speech obstructs the true Way.” Be it even a word which comes to the lips unintentionally, useless talk hinders the Way
                  What is "worthless" and "useless", and to what/whom?

                  Mtfbwy
                  Fugen
                  Life is our temple and its all good practice
                  Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

                  Comment

                  • Tb
                    Member
                    • Jan 2008
                    • 3186

                    #10
                    Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

                    Hi.

                    1-18

                    Most people in the world want to show off their good deeds and hide their bad deeds.
                    Therefore, without discriminating between good monks and bad ones, respect all the Buddha’s disciples, make offerings and take refuge with a spirit of equality.
                    What is "good"/"bad"?
                    And to what/whom?
                    Do not separate between hot and cold...

                    Mtfbwy
                    Fugen
                    Life is our temple and its all good practice
                    Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

                    Comment

                    • Tb
                      Member
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 3186

                      #11
                      Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

                      Hi.

                      1-19

                      In each situation that you are faced with, just consider carefully; do anything which will bring even a little benefit to the person who is before you, without concern for what people will think of you. Even if you become estranged from your friends or quarrel with them because they say you did something bad and unbecoming of a monk, it is not important. It would be better to break off with such narrow-minded people. Even though outwardly it may seem to other people that you are doing something improper, the primary concern should be to break off your ego-attachment inwardly and throw away any desire for fame.
                      if you throw away your concern for fame and bring even a little benefit to others, you correspond with the true Way.
                      And, although it is apparently wrong, if you have a friend who respects you and whom you feel you could not go against, either for good or bad, and he requests your support to do something wrong and unacceptable through you, listen to his request once, and in your letter write that you have been asked importunately, and that the matter should be dealt with reasonably. If you treat each situation in this way, no one will hold a grudge. You must consider things like this very meticulously in every encounter or situation. The primary concern is to cast aside the desire for fame and ego-attachment in whatever situation.”
                      It's as the nike slogan says: Just do it.
                      If this happens, do this.
                      If that happens, do that.

                      but remember the words of Yoda, "Just do or do not".
                      No atachments, just do it.

                      Mtfbwy
                      Fugen
                      Life is our temple and its all good practice
                      Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

                      • Tb
                        Member
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 3186

                        #12
                        Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

                        Hi.

                        1-20

                        This is the reality before our eyes. You do not need to wait for the teaching of masters or sutras to see it.
                        How does this correspond with "be a lamp unto yourself"? :twisted:

                        Mtfbwy
                        Fugen
                        Life is our temple and its all good practice
                        Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

                        Comment

                        • BrianW
                          Member
                          • Oct 2008
                          • 511

                          #13
                          Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

                          Our life changes moment by moment, it flows by swiftly day by day. Everything is impermanent and rapidly changing […..] In every moment do not expect that tomorrow will come. Think only of this day and this moment. Since the future is uncertain, and you cannot foresee what will happen, you should resolve to follow the Buddha-Way, if only for today, while you are alive.
                          This passage really stood out as I find it really challenging, at times, to live in the moment. Obviously this could be taken to the extreme, where living only in the moment would be absurd (e.g., not considering the future consequences of your behavior). Nevertheless, to rid oneself of anxiety for the future and regrets of the past can be quite difficult.

                          Comment

                          • Rich
                            Member
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 2601

                            #14
                            Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

                            1-19
                            "The primary concern is to cast aside the desire for fame and ego-attachment in whatever situation.”

                            Just sitting mind is the beginning of the end of the desire for fame and ego-attachment.
                            _/_
                            Rich
                            MUHYO
                            無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

                            https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

                            Comment

                            • StephanCOH
                              Member
                              • Apr 2009
                              • 67

                              #15
                              Re: 7/24 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-16 to 1-20

                              1-20
                              You should consider things only for the sake of the flourishing of the dharma and the benefit of living beings, all the time and in whatever situation. Speak after making careful consideration; act after giving attentive thought; do not act rashly. Ponder over what is reasonable in whatever situation you encounter. Our life changes moment by moment, it flows by swiftly day by day. Everything is impermanent and changing rapidly. This is the reality before our eyes. You do not need to wait for the teaching of masters or sutras to see it. In every moment, do not expect tomorrow will come. Think only of this day and this moment. Since the future is very much uncertain, and you cannot foresee what will happen, you should resolve to follow the Buddha-Way, if only for today, while you are alive.
                              That's it for me. Be careful in your acting, act in a way that fits the situation. Do it now, expect nothing, just be here.

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