BOOK OF EQUANIMITY- case 20

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  • Daitetsu
    Member
    • Oct 2012
    • 1154

    #46
    Hi Amelia,

    Originally posted by Amelia
    Is there a difference between Tao and Dharma?
    In order to answer the question I would have to define both terms and compare them. And thus would be on the wrong track.

    I don't want to leave it like that though...
    The following is my very personal opinion:
    For me Dharma, Tao, etc. speak more or less about the same thing. The same thing Hinduism talks about (and other religions) or the Sufis or the Christian mystic Meister Eckhart.
    Taoism, Zen, etc. are different fingers pointing to the moon.
    Different Buddhists will define Dharma differently and different Taoists will define the Tao differently.

    Before I came to Zen I was very much into Taoism, and when I became acquainted with Zen, I was totally surprised by the parallels.
    Actually, Taoism had a considerable influence on Buddhism when it came to China, and later Zen had a huge influence on Taoism.
    Alas, the philosophical Taoism developed into a superstitious religion. However, there is a so-called "New Taoism" nowadays (especially in the West) that goes "back to the roots". They even use Zen anecdotes/stories.
    However, there are several clear differences between Zen (Buddhism) and Taoism. E.g. Taoism has no precepts, because according to Taoism deep inside people know by themselves what is right or wrong.
    Taoism also lacks a clear methodology like the 8th fold Path, etc.

    Actually, I don't want to make a Taoist thread out of this (sorry Taigu!), so if someone has questions/answers/feedback about this, you can send me a PM if you want.

    As a final quote - this time from Tao Te Ching (Translation by Stephen Mitchell)
    The tao that can be told
    is not the eternal Tao
    The name that can be named
    is not the eternal Name.

    The unnamable is the eternally real.
    Naming is the origin
    of all particular things.

    Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
    Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

    Yet mystery and manifestations
    arise from the same source.
    This source is called darkness.

    Darkness within darkness.
    The gateway to all understanding.
    Gassho,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

    Comment

    • Geika
      Treeleaf Unsui
      • Jan 2010
      • 4981

      #47
      Thank you, Timo.
      求道芸化 Kyūdō Geika
      I am just a priest-in-training, please do not take anything I say as a teaching.

      Comment

      • RichardH
        Member
        • Nov 2011
        • 2800

        #48
        Originally posted by LimoLama
        However, there are several clear differences between Zen (Buddhism) and Taoism. E.g. Taoism has no precepts, because according to Taoism deep inside people know by themselves what is right or wrong.
        Taoism also lacks a clear methodology like the 8th fold Path, etc.
        These are two really good points... (sorry to extend the Taoist thing on this thread) . The Tao Te Ching always seemed like an expression of realization with no methodology. It is so beautiful and simple.

        The (overly simplified) story goes that there was vanilla Buddhism in India.. then Padmasambhava took it to Tibet where it fused with Shamanism, and Bodhidharma took it to China where it fused methodology and the Boddhisattva commitment with Taoist immediacy.
        I think it is safe to say in Buddhism it is also true that people know by themselves what is right or wrong. The difference being it just needs to be uncovered.

        Gassho , kojip

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40119

          #49
          Dear All,

          I would ask our members to hold, as much as possible, all Forum discussion and chit-chat during our Rohatsu Retreat the next two days, except as related to the Retreat.



          Now is a day for sitting, not talking.

          Thank you.

          Gassho, Jundo
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 40119

            #50
            Dear All,

            I would ask our members to hold, as much as possible, all Forum discussion and chit-chat during our Rohatsu Retreat the next two days, except as related to the Retreat.

            PLEASE NOTE SOME MICROPHONE SQUEAK DURING THE FIRST FEW HOURS of FIRST DAY. PLEASE JUST SIT WITH IT! WELCOME ... ... to our TREELEAF 'AT HOME' Two Day 'ALL ONLINE' ROHATSU (Buddha's Enlightenment Day) RETREAT, being held by LIVE NETCAST on Saturday/Sunday December 8 and 9, 2012. Please 'sit-a-long' with the LIVE NETCAST


            Now is a day for sitting, not talking.

            Thank you.

            Gassho, Jundo
            Last edited by Jundo; 12-09-2012, 01:10 AM.
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • galen
              Member
              • Feb 2012
              • 322

              #51
              Originally posted by Jundo
              Dear All,

              I would ask our members to hold, as much as possible, all Forum discussion and chit-chat during our Rohatsu Retreat the next two days, except as related to the Retreat.

              PLEASE NOTE SOME MICROPHONE SQUEAK DURING THE FIRST FEW HOURS of FIRST DAY. PLEASE JUST SIT WITH IT! WELCOME ... ... to our TREELEAF 'AT HOME' Two Day 'ALL ONLINE' ROHATSU (Buddha's Enlightenment Day) RETREAT, being held by LIVE NETCAST on Saturday/Sunday December 8 and 9, 2012. Please 'sit-a-long' with the LIVE NETCAST


              Now is a day for sitting, not talking.

              Thank you.

              Gassho, Jundo


              Jundo... it seems this link does not open.


              Gassho

              NOTE FROM JUNDO: THANK YOU, LINK FIXED
              Last edited by Jundo; 12-09-2012, 01:10 AM.
              Nothing Special

              Comment

              • cnol

                #52
                I wonder if it's the difference between having "awareness" versus "analysis" in our sitting?
                I especially enjoy the final commentary questions:


                Does not knowing has a colour or shape?

                Does it speak?
                How big are the legs?
                How far its arms can reach out?
                How to know not knowing?
                How can it be known?
                Where are you in this knowing?
                Still there?


                Gassho in not knowing, -Taigu
                It feels like a dharma poem in and of itself. I printed it out to reread after today's sitting. On a side note, is there a section on the forum for posting dharma poems that we write? I define a dharma poem as an expression of our understanding (I won't use the word enlightenment b/c that sure doesn't apply to me, haha...). I have found in the past that it feels beneficial at times to try to write something after having a longer sitting session, trying to remember not to be pretentious but instead try to express honestly both my understanding and blind spots. Do you think that is a good practice or does it still lead to too much thinking and analysis? I apologize if that's been listed somewhere else and I missed it.

                Thanks, -Chris

                Comment

                • Nenka
                  Member
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 1238

                  #53
                  What I think I know about anything changes with every piece of the puzzle I'm given. It's not wrong to investigate, ponder, or even philosophize. But whether the subject fades away or the discussion goes on forever, did I ever really know the whole great truth of it? To believe so would be the mistake.

                  Gassho

                  Jen

                  Comment

                  • Shogen
                    Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 301

                    #54
                    Taigu asked, Please consider these questions:

                    When you get up, what happens then?

                    Choices to be made.

                    Does not knowing has a colour or shape?

                    No

                    Does it speak?

                    No

                    How big are the legs?

                    don't know

                    How far its arms can reach out?

                    don't know

                    How to know not knowing?

                    Looking, touching, tasting, smelling, hearing for the first time.

                    How can it be known?

                    Shikantaza

                    Where are you in this knowing?

                    Practicing

                    Still there?

                    Yes


                    gassho shogen
                    Last edited by Shogen; 12-29-2012, 12:56 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Tb
                      Member
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 3186

                      #55
                      Hi.



                      Nothing to add.

                      Mtfbwy
                      Fugen
                      Life is our temple and its all good practice
                      Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

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